MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[Zook]

Did Mike pull a Tate and try to claim percentages?

[ToT-147]

I don't usually have nothing to say about this whole MP vs DT thing.. It just leaves me silenced.. Let's say something about it this time:

In any case, we don't know exactly how any of this went down.

Agreed.. Also, I think what noxon said is a common thing and that every band has their own stuff happening 'behind closed doors'.. We're all humans and no one's perfect.. Ok, some does say more (than others) negative things that unfortunately affect other people... but that's just human "nature" nowadays; we should be used to that by now or, if not, then we should be in our way to be used to that..

No matter what kind of drama happened in the past, I will always love DT and Mike Portnoy for the great music they have put out and continue to do so.

This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..

[KevShmev]

I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit.  Yikes.

Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.

I mean, that was what your post was, right? 

[cramx3]

This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..

I definitely try to separate the two, but I think everyone has a point where it either becomes hard to separate the two, or you just find the personality so off putting you don't want to support the person anymore.  Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough    I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.

[King Postwhore]

I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit.  Yikes.

Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.

I mean, that was what your post was, right?

So we finally figured out that Stadler is really Alec Baldwin.

[Madman Shepherd]

I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit.  Yikes.

Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.

I mean, that was what your post was, right?

 

[bill1971]

I posted something similar on MP's forum that it would be like someone tweeting  "DT was amazing tonight, SO MUCH better with Mangini than the Portnoy years" and Mangini or worse yet Labrie retweeted it. To me that would be a bit hostile.

and

What I am annoyed with it is all the negative tweets about DT that get retweeted by MP.
 
"I have seen DT 3 times since your departure, but the clips from Paris showed to me that you made DT the band it was and no longer is."
Or things like DT has no soul anymore once you left
 
It's so contentious.  Nothing wrong with praising MP and this tour but it always seems to come with a slam on DT.

[bill1971]

Did Mike pull a Tate and try to claim percentages?

Say what you will about Tate but he really seems more at peace with himself and has moved on. Doesn't mean he wont play QR songs but he doesn't get involved with the comparisons.

[bosk1]

I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...

THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public.

Okay, but the thing is, I don't think anyone is concerned about what may or may not have happened behind closed doors.  What people are objecting to is one party constantly taking passive-aggressive shots publicly.  And that's all it is about. 

It's all well and good to say, "but you don't know the whole picture!  There is more that happened than you'll ever know."  But (1) people are only commenting on what we DO know, and (2) nobody would be commenting at all if Portnoy would let it go and not comment instead of constantly fueling the fire.  And like it or not, #2 is HUGE.  Nobody on the DT side is commenting.  Mike Portnoy IS commenting.  If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.

[Dave_Manchester]

He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.

I'm definitely with you on the MP fanboyism, but this part of your post that I've pruned I don't think is fair to the band. According to the guys in Avenged Sevenfold, Mike quit the band when he was positive he was going to join A7X full time (and would thus make a lot of money by doing that). When those guys told him they had other ideas, Mike then tried to rejoin Dream Theater. Under those circumstances, I don't think DT have any responsibility whatsoever to "entertain his needs", especially given Mike seems not to have entertained their needs when he asked to suspend the band (and hence their main source of income) for some years.

I'm on neither 'team' as far as these things go. I love most of Mike's projects and bands, I'm seeing The Shattered Fortress next Wednesday in St Petersburg, and Dream Theater are still my favourite band which is still active. Both camps are making great music. I get the impression Mike still has some bitterness and resentment (justifiably or not, it's not for me to say, I don't know 1% of what went on) about what happened 7 years ago, and hopefully this tour he's doing can help him lay a few ghosts and demons to rest.

[ToT-147]

Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough    I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.

Even when MP said he was referring to the 2% of the fanbase.. But yeah, I for instance do not get that kind of overreaction before something so irrelevant as one single lyric..

Nobody on the DT side is commenting.  Mike Portnoy IS commenting.  If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.

Mmmm, not so sure about this.. I have read/heard about all of these very things even when Portnoy didn't say a thing.... well, at least for let's say a few months (more than that he can't stand I guess); and we know he started his comments against DT right since he left, so...

[antigoon]

I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties

[Adami]

Anyone else get kind of a Metallica/Dave Mustaine vibe from the current DT/MP relationship?

Obviously not in the details of the relationship, just more so how the ex-member deals with the band. Though MP seems much less of a dick.

[King Postwhore]

I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties

If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.

[Adami]

I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties

If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.

Oh man, I'm thinking a Lifetime movie. Or whatever channel they did that Saved by the Bell thing on.

[ToT-147]

Anyone else get kind of a Metallica/Dave Mustaine vibe from the current DT/MP relationship?

Obviously not in the details of the relationship, just more so how the ex-member deals with the band. Though MP seems much less of a dick.

And though DT, unlike Metallica, aren't saying anything about it, nor adding more fuel to the fire..

[Anguyen92]

This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..

I think that sort of mentality is really hard for people to fathom.  I know it's hard for me to fathom something like this.  I mean I really enjoyed this song, "Rooftops" from this band called Lostprophets, but I cannot listen to that song since the lead singer went to jail for committing such heinous actions.  I know wrestling fans find it really hard to watch Chris Benoit matches since those matches pretty much inadvertently caused his death and his heinous actions.

As for Portnoy, I don't follow the guy much on a big scale like I would with my favorite bands, but I'm sure I probably would feel some form of fatigue and disinterest in whatever he is doing if every now and then he makes a passive-aggressive comment to DT.  Still, I do like Winery Dogs a decent amount and I'm all ears if they make another studio album and won't let my personal thoughts about Portnoy on social media get in a way of enjoying a band like Winery Dogs.

[King Postwhore]

I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties

If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.

Oh man, I'm thinking a Lifetime movie. Or whatever channel they did that Saved by the Bell thing on.

Seriously.   That would be amazing!

[TAC]

Someone needs to do a Screech/MP photoshoppy thing. The call has gone out for Zydar!

[Madman Shepherd]

Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough    I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.

Even when MP said he was referring to the 2% of the fanbase.. But yeah, I for instance do not get that kind of overreaction before something so irrelevant as one single lyric..

The people I was referring to probably just used that as an excuse.  They were already saying all that crap like "DT changed" and blah blah.  One time I confronted one of them and was like, "Dude, it's ok to admit that you just aren't into that music anymore or that your love for them was a flash in the pan."  But yeah, when Never Enough came out I had been into DT for 5 years but probably only fanatical about them for a year or so and I was like, big deal. Those same people didn't like Train of Thought or Octavarium so I think Never Enough annoyed them and was a good excuse to back off from a band they used to be hardcore about.   I still think the song is great.  It's funny that he keeps using "Never Enough" in social media and what not. 

[KevShmev]

I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit.  Yikes.

Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.

I mean, that was what your post was, right?

So we finally figured out that Stadler is really Alec Baldwin.

 

I definitely try to separate the two, but I think everyone has a point where it either becomes hard to separate the two, or you just find the personality so off putting you don't want to support the person anymore.  Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough    I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.

Eh, I have not been a fan of Potrtnoy the man (vs Mike Portnoy the musician) for a decade and a half now, but I still buy tons of music he is a part of.  The music is what matters the most, regardless of how many tantrums he throws on social media (and there have been too many to count or remember them all).

He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.

this part of your post that I've pruned I don't think is fair to the band. According to the guys in Avenged Sevenfold, Mike quit the band when he was positive he was going to join A7X full time (and would thus make a lot of money by doing that). When those guys told him they had other ideas, Mike then tried to rejoin Dream Theater. Under those circumstances, I don't think DT have any responsibility whatsoever to "entertain his needs", especially given Mike seems not to have entertained their needs when he asked to suspend the band (and hence their main source of income) for some years.

Excellent point. 

[Skeever]

Love all the judgment (NOT).   LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.).  They also were at each others throats for years before.    Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me. 

As for the songs, it was talked about before; there's a difference between playing a one-off of, say, "Pull Me Under" in a concert (like the PMS thing) and a more formal production (which this is).  As long as the license fees are paid (and if I remember correctly, they are by the venue as a blanket thing) there are likely no restrictions.   But that's not the same as staging an entire event as a "Night of Dream Theater".    David Gilmour plays songs from "The Wall" in his show, and besides the carping in the press by Roger Waters, no one can really say anything about it.   I would bet my Gene Simmons coffee mug that Gilmour cannot, under any circumstances, stage a production of "The Wall" in it's entirety.   

Here's the thing, though:  for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress.   It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge).  This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished.  To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).   

As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what?   The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!"    He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.

Team Mike and proud of it.

I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Well said.

[King Postwhore]

I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James.  James has a food reason to be upset. 

What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does.  Mike needs to let it go and he can't.

It's on Mike.

[KevShmev]

I totally agree with every sentence of this post.

Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?

Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?

[Adami]

James has a food reason to be upset. 

Talk about a poisonous typo.

[King Postwhore]

 

Mike Portnoy and the 4 Dwarfs?

[TAC]

Yeah, I heard he was coughing and Haken.

[gmillerdrake]

I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James.  James has a food reason to be upset. 

What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does.  Mike needs to let it go and he can't.

It's on Mike.

All of this.

[Madman Shepherd]

I totally agree with every sentence of this post.

Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?

Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?

 

[Zook]

If I could afford it, I'd definitely go to one of these shows, but I know they aren't coming anywhere near Arizona. The YouTube videos are great, and Ross is doing a fantastic job singing the songs.

I'd actually like another chance to meet MP as last time it was awkward. I just wish he wouldn't be so "honest" about everything. Just saying how he wished they had a different singer while he was still in the band is reason enough for James to be resentful. They were family for many years, then it's like, "oh that's how you feel? FU then." I'm sure some nobody saying that would just roll off his back, but not one of his long time band mates.

[Madman Shepherd]

On a different note it seems that a lot of people like this Ross guy whereas after the cruise I got the feeling a lot of people didn't like him.  I think he is kind of a mix between James LaBrie and John Arch so I happen to like him. 

Good choice of a vocalist.  The three guitarists though....what is this?  Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?

I saw Mike said he didn't want to use just half of Haken so instead he uses all of them....minus the drummer.  Why not just have two drummers though if you're going to have three guitarists? 

[DragonAttack]

James has a food reason to be upset. 

Talk about a poisonous typo.

Yeah, I heard he was coughing and Haken.

 

This has been an interesting discussion, but the above comments are why I enjoy this site.

[Progmetty]

I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James.  James has a food reason to be upset. 

What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does.  Mike needs to let it go and he can't.

It's on Mike.

Agreed.

[PetFish]

Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.

Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"

Have you never heard the hidden bonus track on the Vietnamese import CD of BC&SL?

It's an epilogue to the 12 steps called "XIII - Ah, Screw It" where the person just decides to ignore everything they just went through and go back to abusing people.

I thought he has handled the post DT situation poorly for almost 7 years now but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying some of the stuff he's done since. But things like this is just making it hard for me to want to support his endeavors going forward even thought I had little to no interest in the Shattered Fortress stuff to begin with.

I used to think like this but I just can't excuse his attitude any longer.  I'm really starting to hate the guy and I'm not thrilled about that.

Every once in a while a thread pops up where someone asks if our enjoyment of artists is diminished if their character/morals/etc are questionable (ie. they're dicks).  Some people say it does, others say it doesn't, but I'm in the "it does" category.  I just cannot support a-holes and the worst part is, even if I want to support other members (ie. Billy Sheehan and Richie Kotzen) the terrible attitude of one person affects them also... at least in my book.

Love all the judgment (NOT).   LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.).  They also were at each others throats for years before.    Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.

I'll cherry-pick this first paragraph.

So, when MP left cuz DT called him out on his BS, James may have said something *possibly* negative?  So you're saying he's *not* a control freak?  And in all these years since MP left he's taken every opportunity to trash DT and DT "fans" and SPECIFICALLY JL and be truly negative and abusive whereas DT has kept quiet and tried to move on but MP, who left, is somehow a victim in all this?  So one or two things that *may* be interpreted as negative towards MP is somehow NOT ok but you give MP, who left, with all the trash he has said over the years a free pass?

This is what should be beyond you, man, seriously.  It's like those Youtube videos where the bully is being filmed by their buddies who keep taunting their prey who then proceeds to smash the face of the bully and then all of a sudden the friends of the bully are screaming bloody murder and call the cops and all that junk.  MP is the bully who keeps talking trash and people just blindly defend him and say the prey is at-fault when they clearly aren't.

O_o

What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does.  Mike needs to let it go and he can't.

It's on Mike.

But he doesn't hold grudges and he's just being honest and doesn't want any more drama so leave Mikey alone!

[Skeever]

On a different note it seems that a lot of people like this Ross guy whereas after the cruise I got the feeling a lot of people didn't like him.  I think he is kind of a mix between James LaBrie and John Arch so I happen to like him. 

Good choice of a vocalist.  The three guitarists though....what is this?  Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?

I saw Mike said he didn't want to use just half of Haken so instead he uses all of them....minus the drummer.  Why not just have two drummers though if you're going to have three guitarists? 

I have never been a huge Ross Jennings fan, but he has gotten better over time.