Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Genowyn]

It happened but the circumstances were different in some fundamental ways. Important ways.

[faizoff]

So how much of the books are done/left now?

[ReaperKK]

That season finale was unreal, it's just so much to process.

[Genowyn]

That season finale was unreal, it's just so much to process.

It varies by character. Some are ahead of their book plotlines, some are in similar positions, some are off on psychotic tangents, some are behind. Two have yet to happen on the show but one of them is definitely happening (Sam going south) and one seems likely to happen due to some casting announcements (Iron Islands). Some have been entirely cut (alas, poor Griffs, Quentyn, and Arianne, we hardly knew ye). Pretty much only Jon and Dany are right where the shows left them, but some really important things have been left out of their plotlines.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

So, I love GOT, but any story needs good characters, I think, and most of them are dead now. If Jon is indeed gone, what great characters are left? I guess Tyrion and Danny. Jamie's an interesting character too I guess, but... I dunno. Jon was a GREAT character. One more down.

[faizoff]

Man my heart is still pounding  from that episode.

[Genowyn]

So, I love GOT, but any story needs good characters, I think, and most of them are dead now. If Jon is indeed gone, what great characters are left? I guess Tyrion and Danny. Jamie's an interesting character too I guess, but... I dunno. Jon was a GREAT character. One more down.

Kit Harrington said in an interview that he's really dead, but that could certainly be a contractually obligated lie.

Most book readers don't think he's dead, but none of the reasons we have to think that are really present in the show (except that Melisandre showed up).

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, that was crazy. I have no clue what happens next.

[faizoff]

I wonder if Stannis is still alive. I mean they show pretty much every slice and dice in great detail on the show so not showing Stannis' head being chopped off maybe just maybe might mean something. Either way other places on the internet are convinced Jon Snow will be brought back.

[gmillerdrake]

What a finale! I still can't believe they'd kill off such a great character in Jon Snow....but, I guess at the moment he's presumed dead. Like as has been mentioned....Melessandra being at the wall may help his cause.

Anyway....it's such a bummer to have to wait now.....

[faizoff]

According to this interview Jon Snow is not coming back
https://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Relevant part below:

I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?
This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really.

[gmillerdrake]

^^^^if that's true then that SUCKS and it'll be the first time I'd be legitimately disappointed by the show/book....whatever.

[Implode]

I've become kind of numb to this show. I know I just started watching it, but now I'm wondering why I have any reason to continue. It's not like in way where my favorite characters are dead or anything. The show just hasn't seemed to give any rewards for caring about anything. So I feel like whatever.

[Accelerando]

Damn you Game of Thrones! Just....GODDAMN YOU!!!   

[masterthes]

There's a key to that sentence, next season. They could be doing a Bran thing and keeping him out for the 6th season

[orcus116]

So, I love GOT, but any story needs good characters, I think, and most of them are dead now. If Jon is indeed gone, what great characters are left? I guess Tyrion and Danny. Jamie's an interesting character too I guess, but... I dunno. Jon was a GREAT character. One more down.

That is my issue as well. There really haven't been a lot of compelling storylines and this takes out one of the best ones.

[faizoff]

I'll have to wait and see, I think they did an amazing job with Oberyn's character even though it was mostly from the books and just one season, Theon's arc has become super interesting the past 2 seasons. Of course Jon was an amazing character especially the last two seasons 2 thought, so even if he doesn't come back I'm not going to be disappointed. I also think after a somewhat lull for 2 seasons (3 & 4) Dani's story line has finally got some major legs this season. By end of season 4 I didn't care that much about her.
I think they've still got plenty left, I mean there's Cersei who's got the frickin frankenstien mountain on her side. I'm not worried, will just see it play out.

Forgot about Arya and Bran, so yea plenty of stuff to tap into.

[orcus116]

I can't be the only one who finds Bran's storyline insufferably boring.

[faizoff]

A great recap and 'thoughts shared out loud' article on last night's show.
https://theweek.com/articles/560502/game-thrones-season-finale-recap-sunday-bloody-sunday

[cramx3]

I dont understand the complaints besides the "my favorite character died" which is valid, but the show actually managed to climax all the storylines last night and left us hanging in many spots (just like the books ended). 

I am still having trouble believing Stannis is dead and got pummeled in the Battle for Winterfell, which apparently was not much of a battle.  It makes it seem that Ramsay's Pink Letter (which was cut from the show and the reason Jon gets stabbed in the books, no longer spoiler I guess) is true, when most thought it was not.

That previously on bit actually tricked everyone which was awesome.

And I don't believe Jon is dead, Melissandre convienently gets to Castle Black in time.  She expressed her interest in Jon before, she saw the Lord of Light can bring back life from Beric Dondarion, and she just did a King's blood sacrifice which was apparently not used for Stannis (and she obviously knew this by leaving him immediately).  There is also always the possiblitly that Jon comes back as a White Walker if he is touched by the Night's King. 

Let's not forget about Qyburn's Ser Robert Strong, another example of someone coming back to life albeit quite differently, but I wonder if Qyburn figured something out about how White Walkers or Whites are raised from the dead?  I've always wondered that.  The walk of shame was pretty spot on from the books, but I was really looking forward to seeing who was at the end and we got it.

And then Mereen, well that is quite different from the books.  Dany's part is the same, but what's left in Mereen is very different.  Varys is there? 

Let's see who died

Ser Meryn Trant
Myranda
Stannis (assumed)
Selyse
Myrcella (assumed)
Jon Snow (assumed)

[orcus116]

Don't forget Sansa and Theon's leap from the wall.

[Phoenix87x]

What a crazy show. That was awesome.

I guess stannis is not the mannis. Flew too close to the sun murdering his daughter and paid the price for it. Half the army deserting, wife suicide, and abandoned by the red woman. Pretty much what I was hoping/expecting and I'm glad it did.

And holy shit, Franken-mountain. Can't wait to see him decimate the fanatics. 

[snapple]

According to this interview Jon Snow is not coming back
https://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Relevant part below:

I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?
This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really.

I've signed NDA's before. I'm sure Jon has one signed.

[hefdaddy42]

Don't forget Sansa and Theon's leap from the wall.

Into a snow bank.  I would bet the farm that both survived in reasonably good shape.

I dont understand the complaints besides the "my favorite character died" which is valid, but the show actually managed to climax all the storylines last night and left us hanging in many spots (just like the books ended). 

I am still having trouble believing Stannis is dead and got pummeled in the Battle for Winterfell, which apparently was not much of a battle.  It makes it seem that Ramsay's Pink Letter (which was cut from the show and the reason Jon gets stabbed in the books, no longer spoiler I guess) is true, when most thought it was not.

That previously on bit actually tricked everyone which was awesome.

And I don't believe Jon is dead, Melissandre convienently gets to Castle Black in time.  She expressed her interest in Jon before, she saw the Lord of Light can bring back life from Beric Dondarion, and she just did a King's blood sacrifice which was apparently not used for Stannis (and she obviously knew this by leaving him immediately).  There is also always the possiblitly that Jon comes back as a White Walker if he is touched by the Night's King. 

Let's not forget about Qyburn's Ser Robert Strong, another example of someone coming back to life albeit quite differently, but I wonder if Qyburn figured something out about how White Walkers or Whites are raised from the dead?  I've always wondered that.  The walk of shame was pretty spot on from the books, but I was really looking forward to seeing who was at the end and we got it.

And then Mereen, well that is quite different from the books.  Dany's part is the same, but what's left in Mereen is very different.  Varys is there? 

Let's see who died

Ser Meryn Trant
Myranda
Stannis (assumed)
Selyse
Myrcella (assumed)
Jon Snow (assumed)

All of this.

[BlackInk]

Awesome episode. If Jon is actually dead, that is a true Game of Thrones gut punch of feels.

And no one is talking about Arya?? The scene with Meryn Trant was brutal and the scene with the sight loss was absolutely horrifying.

Let's not forget about Qyburn's Ser Robert Strong, another example of someone coming back to life albeit quite differently, but I wonder if Qyburn figured something out about how White Walkers or Whites are raised from the dead?  I've always wondered that.

Was he really brought back from death though? I thought he was just brought back from the very brink of death.

I can't be the only one who finds Bran's storyline insufferably boring.

I don't, I think it's really interesting and have always believed it to be one of the most important storylines.

[faizoff]

Arya has always been my favorite character arc, and the actress playing her season after season just keeps getting better and better. That scene with Meryn was arguably my favorite scene of hers this entire series.

[Zydar]

That walk of atonement, must be mentioned also.

[Dekost]

I haven't seen the finale yet (hence posting this here might be a terrible idea) but I did make a jazzy piano cover of the intro theme song. Let me know what you think!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcCzvipXvEA

[Evermind]

Wow, guys, I never expected Olly stabbing Jon! Such subtlety!

But seriously, Jon's last words were "Olly". Fucking Olly and writers. I'm speechless. His last thoughts were not about Arya, not about Ghost (where was he? eh, who needs this stupid oversized dog I guess), but about this joke of a character shoehorned into the story. Wow.

I liked Arya and Cersei scenes though, those were good.

[hefdaddy42]

And no one is talking about Arya?? The scene with Meryn Trant was brutal and the scene with the sight loss was absolutely horrifying.

I think it speaks to the magnitude of the episode that Arya's scenes almost seem like an afterthought.

[faizoff]

But seriously, Jon's last words were "Olly". Fucking Olly and writers. I'm speechless. His last thoughts were not about Arya, not about Ghost (where was he? eh, who needs this stupid oversized dog I guess), but about this joke of a character shoehorned into the story. Wow.

Jon just got ambushed and stabbed by a bunch of men in succession rapidly, I don't think he had time to recover from that ambush, process that Olly betrayed him and then proceed to think about Arya.

[hefdaddy42]

If memory serves, his last word in the novel was "Ghost"

[Evermind]

But seriously, Jon's last words were "Olly". Fucking Olly and writers. I'm speechless. His last thoughts were not about Arya, not about Ghost (where was he? eh, who needs this stupid oversized dog I guess), but about this joke of a character shoehorned into the story. Wow.

Jon just got ambushed and stabbed by a bunch of men in succession rapidly, I don't think he had time to recover from that ambush, process that Olly betrayed him and then proceed to think about Arya.

Well, my rant is from perspective of an avid books fan. The show didn't make efforts to establish Jon - Arya connection besides the Needle gifting scene in S1, which is understandable, because they kind of can't portray characters' thoughts on screen, but I seriously doubt they even remember about this Jon - Arya connection at all (remember, they've said Needle was a symbol of revenge for Arya. Yeah, I'm still not over it.)

I'm obviously not really experienced on that matter, but it was a nice parallel in the books, at least I thought so. Robb thinks about Grey Wind while dying, Catelyn's thoughts are about Ned and her beloved children, and Jon's last thoughts are the ones who are the most dear to him, about Arya and Ghost. "Proceed to think about Arya" sounds like it's some distant relative of his or totally unimportant person, whereas it's actually one of the most important persons to him. Remember, he sends help to Winterfell when he hears the news that Arya is going to wed Ramsay (not knowing she's fake), once again struggling to decide between vows and his little sister. Then he decides to march on Winterfell with wildlings when he receives Pink Letter, which is basically the last straw that breaks the camel's back and finally results in his assassination.

But the show didn't bother to establish all that, it went with numerous shots of Olly glaring at things in every episode, so I'm not surprised they went this route in the end. Just extremely disappointed.

Also, what was the point of Alliser opening up the gates for Jon and wildlings in episode 9 if they just went ahead and killed him now? I mean, now you've got a horde of wildlings on this side of the Wall, and they're probably going to be pissed. Why open the gates?

And on somewhat related note, I think I've kind of realised my problem with the show now, everything is just too bleak. The books had the same bleak atmosphere, especially the last two, but there were some poignant moments that brought hope to the readers, and the show threw them away, cut them or set those moments up the way they've lost all their intended emotional effect. The show also did a great job cutting almost all the big moments / scenes I liked about AFFC and ADWD, like Jaime's final chapter in AFFC, or Asha's last chapter in ADWD (I don't want to post small text, so book readers will know what scenes I'm referring to).

If memory serves, his last word in the novel was "Ghost"

You're remembering right, the last word was "Ghost", but the last thought was regarding Arya. It's a little and subtle touch, but this is just the kind of thing I love about the books.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold...

[faizoff]

You post is an example of why I chose not to read books 4 & 5 before season 5 ends. To me the book pacing, inner monologue is a very different device of story telling. I prefer the show format of things and whatever choices they end up making on trying to display. To me I get a bigger impact when watching things unfold rather than read about it.

Regarding the Arya- Jon relationship, they did touch upon it this season in episode 4 I think it was when Arya has to throw Needle in the sea but decides not to. To me that perfectly encapsulated the relationship between the two. In fact when Jon was stabbed honest to god, that's one of the things I thought of.
The way I approach the books now is that I want to read them to get a better in depth perspective and richer back story of the lands and characters, something which is limited for the show.

If you haven't yet I really suggest you listen to the audio commentaries by GRRM on the boxsets, in some of them he describes the many challenges of translating the book material to the show even when he has to write episodes for the show. His initial version of first episode he wrote in season one would've cost the entire budget of the series.

[Evermind]

Well, I prefer the book format of things. But don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the show (though I think this has been the worst season so far).

Regarding the Arya- Jon relationship, they did touch upon it this season in episode 4 I think it was when Arya has to throw Needle in the sea but decides not to. To me that perfectly encapsulated the relationship between the two. In fact when Jon was stabbed honest to god, that's one of the things I thought of.

Yeah, that was that moment the show-writers told us in the Inside the Episode feature that Needle for Arya was a symbol of revenge, and apparently not a reminder of Jon Snow's smile. I've mentioned it in the post above. The scene was well done though, props to Maisie for great acting.

And yeah, I understand the adaptation problems as well, but some of the decisions they do just make no sense. Why cut the Riverlands storyline for this Dorne nonsense? If you wanted to include Dorne, why cut Arianne, who is, in my opinion one of the most interesting characters there, do a total 180 on Ellaria's motives, reduce Doran's lines and screentime to a minimum (fire and blood speech, anyone?), and include over-the-top cartoonish Sand Snakes (to be fair, I hated them in the book too, so there's consistency)

In the interviews before this season (I think) they've said how they've spend a lot of money and time on making the Hall of Faces, making sure to make every of the six hundred faces unique. The Hall of Faces was featured in what, three scenes this season? And there's more stuff like that. But some decisions they make are good or even great, I mean, Hardhome fight wasn't shown in the books and I really liked it, so there's that.

The first season had a low budget, and it was great. Even the invented dialogue was mostly amazing, and the scenes with two actors D&D had to write to fill up the time for some episodes were great. Now we're getting "You want the good girl, but you need the bad pussy". Granted, the first book was the most adaptable of them all, and books 4 and 5 are the least adaptable, but my problem is not that they've cut a lot of filler (because as much as I like AFFC and ADWD, there is filler in them), but that they've substituted the book-filler with their own invented show-filler, and while they sure can write things, they're not as accomplished writers as GRRM is (again, all my opinion here). I think that's why this season ended up a bit on the weak side.

I will of course watch and enjoy the show further, but I really hope TWOW comes out before S6, even though there's like 1% chance for that.