Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[gmillerdrake]

I feel like a lot of these issues....both minor and more substantial with the OT that Bosk is bringing up is exactly why I think this new trilogy is judged unfairly. Every movie in this saga (outside of R1 which is it's own story) has had some major issues in story telling. Those movies in the OT if you really dig into them really aren't all that great of movies. BUT....they work because at the time they were magical and for whatever reason just resonated and spawned an unmatched fandom.

For the most part I think the new trilogy films are actually better all around movies....but, they just haven't connected on the same level and in the same way the the OT did and I really think it has to do with the sheer amount and quality of content available today is far superior and challenging than vs what type and quality of content competition the OT faced.

[Zook]

Baby Yoda has a new challanger:  Babu Frik





I loved that guy

No, that thing is ugly as fuck.

[TioJorge]

It was pretty dull. As an extremely casual SW fan, it was okay. If I were a diehard fan, I would be pretty disappointed. Granted, those frothy-mouthed diehards are pretty ludicrous for the most part, but I get it. It was predictable, poorly constructed, sometimes poorly edited, and mostly just a very overly-jam-packed (and yet weirdly simple, to what it all amounts to) kind of goodbye exposition. It felt like this wasn't so much as what should have been a great goodbye to the series, but a cleanup project that ended up leaving a decent amount of smudges behind.

I haven't rewatched any of the new trilogy since they came out and this one isn't any different. Really, I'm just looking forward to this being over with and now that they seem to have fulfilled at least attempting to tie a bow on things, they can move on to exploring some truly interesting worlds and new characters without being so limited by previous works. Hopefully they'll have an actual plan this time. That is really the only thing that irks me is that...it's a trilogy. It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.

[MoraWintersoul]

It should've had a beginning, a middle, and an end planned out. It is sooooo painfully apparent that they did not have that. At all. That...is a bit odd, considering the material.

This seems to be the prevailing impression. People say George Lucas didn't have a plan either and his trilogy had flaws too, but honestly, 1) he came soooooo close to completely ruining the movies with his lack of planning, 2) if you know something is a potential problem, why not try and prevent it? just because George pulled it off once and barely got through with his legacy intact when he tried to endlessly retcon things, doesn't mean you should take thhe risk of not having a loose plan about what should happen over three movies. There should still be space for surprises, bold decisions about character interpretation and secondary characters and thrilling scenes, not directors pulling the meat of the story back and forth from one another.

[YtseJam]

The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Holy shit Episode IX was FANTASTIC! Despite the huge mess that JJ was left with after the complete abomination that was episode VIII, he made it ALL work and delivered a fitting end to the entire Skywalker Saga.

Can't wait to see it again.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.

[kaos2900]

I feel like a lot of these issues....both minor and more substantial with the OT that Bosk is bringing up is exactly why I think this new trilogy is judged unfairly. Every movie in this saga (outside of R1 which is it's own story) has had some major issues in story telling. Those movies in the OT if you really dig into them really aren't all that great of movies. BUT....they work because at the time they were magical and for whatever reason just resonated and spawned an unmatched fandom.

For the most part I think the new trilogy films are actually better all around movies....but, they just haven't connected on the same level and in the same way the the OT did and I really think it has to do with the sheer amount and quality of content available today is far superior and challenging than vs what type and quality of content competition the OT faced.

I agree with this 100%! This is why I didn't rank any of the OT films in my top 3.

[lordxizor]

Saw it this afternoon. Liked it a lot. Didn't love it, and it certainly had issues, but it was fun and delivered a suitable ending to the saga.

[Phoenix87x]

Not reading any posts until I can see ROS tomorrow.  Just popped back in to continue my episode recaps.

Ep. V - The Empire Strikes Back:

I mentioned that, with A New Hope, even though I liked it when I first saw it as a kid, I didn't love it.  The slow pacing just didn't hold my attention as thoroughly as my 7-year-old self needed in order to initially take it to that level.

Three things that worked:
-"I am your father" has to be #1.  I don't know what else needs to be said.
-Better pacing.  It just flows a lot better than Ep. IV.
-"Wait...so the good guys don't win???  What?  I'm so confused about how I feel!"  Yeah.  Perfect ending.
-Bonus (yes, I know this makes 4--it's MY post, so shut up):  Force choking the living daylights out of every officer who failed.  This set up so many awesome moments that made Vader's character and made this film as a whole.

Three things that didn't:
-Luke's training was too short.  It was, what, just a few days at most?  And then he is able to duel Vader and not die within seconds?  (yeah, I know Vader was just toying with him and intentionally not mopping the floor with him while he tried to turn him, but still)  As I've mentioned a bunch of times in connection with not only these films, but others as well, there's no reason why things can't just be stretched out over more time.  Just have sort of a montage or something that shows a longer passage of time without unnecessarily stretching out the film itself.  The precedent was unfortunately set here for things that should take a long time happening too instantaneously.  Not a huge deal, but an ongoing pet peeve that is more irritating than it should be because it is so easy to fix.
-C3PO as comic relief.  He was sort of that in IV, but to a much lesser extent.  And while this film wasn't over the top, it started to move that direction, which would later result in a lot of people rolling their eyes whenever 3PO was onscreen in other films that followed.
-I struggle to come up with a third.  Um...making Luke's fall through the ventilation shaft a bit more believable?  Maybe? 

Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Not much I can say, other than maybe the VERY minor tweaks suggested with Luke's training and 3PO not being silly.  This film is just great.  Very satisfying installment in the saga that left most of us eagerly anticipating what would happen next.

-Same with me for ANH. Saw it in 97 when I was also seven at time and I didn't understand what all the fuss was about. At that point I had seen way more technically advanced movies, and the slow pacing also messed with me. Its a film I completely respect, but never got all that in to. Empire is where my love for SW began.

-Agree about Empire's pacing. Its always moving, and feels very differently than ANH tonally. Things seem a bit more serious and I like that. Its not as Flash Gordany, like "oh let's go rescue the princess and save the day" and all that. More like "damn. Shits on, I hope we don't die".

-And Just from a production standpoint, I love how Empire is lit. ANH is a little flat lighting wise, but Empire creates incredible atmosphere, especially when Luke/Vader have their fight in the Carbon freezing chamber. And the camera work is more interesting as well.

-I LOVE the imperial march that replaces Vader's theme from ANH. Really incredible and memorable. The ANH score is classic and memorable and Williams brought the hot fire once again for Empire. The music in the asteroid chase is one of my favorites.

-Totally agree about Luke's survival of the fall. It never made all that much sense to me, but everything else was so good and I'm so wrapped up in the moment, that I don't mind just going with it.

Behind The Godfather, and Terminator 2, Empire strikes back is my favorite movie. I love it a ton, and have watched it countless times.

[YtseJam]

The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.

Way to be sensitive. I am simply saying she looked good. It's widely recognized that she handed Luke his light saber, he chucked it over his shoulder and she gained 15 lbs in 5 minutes.... Not fat shaming, just saying she looked hot in this film.

[Adami]

I agree. First time I saw TLJ, for the first 10 min I was just thinking “why is Jabba with Luke? Where did Rey go?”

[Zook]

Some actresses look better with a few extra pounds. See Mila Kunis in Oz, the great and Powerful or whatever it's called.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

The originals can be watched over and over again. The prequels, need to be watched once a decade to remember why you don't watch them. Then there's these...the reboot, dumpster fire and the redemption of the dumpster fire. To compare this to Ruin's movie means it's an all day win but overall I liked it. Rey's character was so much better and she lost the pudge she had in the last movie looking pretty hot.  Some scenes were a little too much and would have done better with a less is more approach but I can't complain at this point in time.

Well, at least the lead actress wasn't fat, I guess. That definitely would have ruined the film.

Way to be sensitive. I am simply saying she looked good. It's widely recognized that she handed Luke his light saber, he chucked it over his shoulder and she gained 15 lbs in 5 minutes.... Not fat shaming, just saying she looked hot in this film.

You could call it being sensitive, I guess, if that's the way you look at it. I'd call it something else.

To be honest I'm kind of baffled that I'm even reading this kind of indifferently condescending comment. I'm hardly a crusader for body positivity or whatever the fuck, but come on. You could say you're not being violent while punching someone in the face, but I can't imagine their epidermis will care about your argument much one way or the other. Is it any wonder that women in the entertainment industry tend to develop complexes about their appearance and weight? Sorry chubby, you made it over 100 lbs, better cut back on the cheeseburgers so the men watching our movies will still think you're sexy. Have I gone insane? Have I entered some sort of alternate universe where this is somehow an acceptable thing to say?

Also, Adami, I love you. In measure proportional to your weight.

[YtseJam]

  anyway, back to Star Wars, I liked the movie.

[gmillerdrake]

Going to see it again at 10:30 with my brothers. There’s a couple scenes/conversations I know to pay a bit more attention to this time around.

[TioJorge]

anyway, back to Star Wars, I liked the movie.

...This ^^^ ... was the whole point. Your random comment about her weight or looking good later on (and to your standards) doesn't really have any bearing on anything regarding the movie. Ironically, you yourself pointed it out with this post after the fact. Hence, the spiral after you said what you initially said; it just shouldn't have been said at all.

I just had to point this out because it was too beautiful of a full circle.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I saw ROS last night. Because I had read some not-too-flattering reviews and heard some bad word of mouth, I went in with very low expectations. Because of that, I ended up enjoying the movie a lot more than I predicted. In my opinion, it has some great moments and cool ideas. Unfortunately, as basically everyone has said, it also moves at a pace so fast that it makes "breakneck" look slow. It kind of seems as though J.J. simply condensed his versions of VIII and IX into a single movie. And while I wouldn't say that J.J. gave Rian Johnson an outright middle finger, he certainly started rolling the middle finger up like Starlord in Guardians of the Galaxy, at least.  But overall, I'd say that I essentially enjoyed the movie for what it is and will watch it again. Time now to move on from Star Wars after months of video games, television episodes, and movies.

[lordxizor]

It kind of seems as though J.J. simply condensed his versions of VIII and IX into a single movie.

I feel the same way. I hope Disney learned their lesson that if they're planning a trilogy, the same writer or writing team should outline the whole trilogy before they get started.

[Adami]

So finished TLJ last night before I go see TROS in like 5 hours.

I dunno man, I think I changed my opinion on this one too. It helped already knowing what was going to happen. It helps lower the disappointment if it's not actively disappointing you the way it does the first time around. This movie is a real mess though. It has some of the best moments in the trilogy (thus far) but the rest of the movie is just not well written. I actually REALLY like a lot of the ideas the movie was attempting, but the execution just mostly fell short. The challenging of good vs bad, the idea of the force being held back by the Jedi religion, etc. All of it are great ideas, but they could have been done better.

So the things I really liked....
- Anything with Kylo Ren. This guy is just fantastic as a character, and thus far the only one with a well written actual personality
- Yoda. Nice to see a return to the grumpy rambunctious Yoda from Empire.
- Most of Luke's arc. I still do NOT like the way they handled the first part of his arc, but the second part was fantastic.
- The fight scenes are great
- The lightspeed destruction was breathtaking
- Luke seeing R2 again was so nice
- Luke vs Kylo at the end. Just brilliant
- The acting, in general, was lovely. I still maintain that the acting is the only thing making Rey, Poe and Finn interesting. They aren't super well written, but those actors are bringing them to life.


Things I didn't like? Too many to name, but the comedy just didn't really work in this film. The whole intro feels like a bad Keystone Cops routine and was awful. The plot of just staying out of range was dumb as well. The whole casino planet thing was stupid. Luke's morning routine was terrible. The Porgs are dumb, sorry.

Also, since I JUST rewatched it, I was able to watch that whole bit about keeping the mission secret....and yea, sorry it doesn't hold up. There is NO reason that plan needed to be a secret. None what so ever. And then Poe leads a god damn Coup.....and they STILL don't tell them the plan. They could have....easily.....when Poe turned on them, but nope. They just stayed quiet. Then when Dern was talking to Fisher, it became very clear that the real reason it was kept a secret was because the writer of the script wanted to teach Poe a life lesson. Sorry, that's not good. It's paper thin and terribly done.

A lot of this movie felt like half-baked ideas.

So thus far TFA feels like extremely well executed bad ideas, and TLJ feels like terribly executed interesting ideas.

I might, now, prefer TLJ to TFA, but only because at least TLJ is trying to do something other than say "HEY GUYS REMEMBER STAR WARS?!?!? ISN"T IT AWESOME?!?"

[gmillerdrake]

After a second watch and paying attention to some specific moments I can say that I’m pretty satisfied with how it all went down. Still a very packed movie but all in all my second viewing did nothing but strengthen the positives for me and weaken the negatives.

I have a couple more observations but am out of pocket all day and am scared I’ll screw up the small font attempt and spoil stuff. So.....until later.

[Stadler]

No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all. 

[MinistroRaven]

No fat-shaming (I actually am attracted to full-figured women) or "#MeToo" nonsense, but - having only seen TFA - I just don't find Rey attractive at all.

Because probably you don;t follow her on her SM (which I do)

[Adami]

Saw Star Wars: The Rise of Fan Service.


Wow. That’s a lot of movie. Really dumb. Really really dumb. Second half is pretty enjoyable but still super dumb. I’ll say more later. Gotta process the movies I just saw.

Though I will say this; this movie has what...four writers? It feels like they each handed Disney a different script and Disney said “yes”.

[MoraWintersoul]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

[The Walrus]

Adam Driver is kind of ugly.

I say that as a fellow Ugly Man.

[Adami]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I’m just glad Adam Driver lost some weight since TLJ. Eesh.

[Phoenix87x]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I'm not gay, but for Oscar Isaac I might consider it 

Its amazing that the original plan was to kill him off quickly in Force Awakens. What a waste that would have been.

[faizoff]

It looks like the projected weekend box office numbers are $190-195 million. Which is below both the previous two episodes. I can't say I'm surprised by the numbers given how Solo went plus the fan backlash of TLJ.

I'm guessing it will end up between Rogue One and TLJ. Maybe closer to TLJ.

I don't know what more movies Lucasfilm has planned for. The D&D trilogy is gone, not sure about the Rian Johnson trilogy if that is still going to happen, I think they want to see how TROS does before pushing that ahead.

I do hope we get that Kevin Fiege SW movie sooner rather than later, with his track record in Marvel I get the feeling he can plug the right people in to make an interesting movie in the SW universe.

[bosk1]

Saw it this afternoon.  Loved it!  Fantastic finale to the Skywalker saga.  More later, but suffice to say I was HIGHLY satisfied with this film.

[lonestar]

Let's talk about how hot Adam Driver and John Boyega are. Also, that Oscar Isaac is a fine piece of ass.

I’m just glad Adam Driver lost some weight since TLJ. Eesh.

I fucking love you. 

[Adami]

You might not after what I write about the film.

[The Walrus]

A lot of the answers to questions raised by this film... don't exist. It's "whatever, don't think about it." The worst kind of answer.

A friend of mine just saw the movie and said he thought the ending would've been better if Palpatine suddenly made a time warp and sent Rey back in time (piggybacking on a time travel theory I pitched him), ultimately becoming Shmi Skywalker, because it would've given Rey an actual connection to the real Skywalkers and a better, stronger connection to Kylo Ren in the long run. I'm starting to think that would be awesome, as paradoxical as it is 

[Adami]

On second thought, I’m going to limit my criticisms of the movie. I know this franchise is extremely special to a lot of people and a good number of people love these new films and loved TROS. I had a guy a row ahead of me, probably in his mid to late 40s, being like a kid going to Disneyland for the first time. He was loving every second of it. I could not connect with that all, but I have felt that way about other things. Because of that, I would be happy to discuss the movie, but I have no desire to try to convince someone it wasn’t good or try to diminish their enjoyment at all. So I’ll add in here or there but I won’t argue the negatives much.

Glad people loved it. Really.

[lonestar]

Let it fly man, I love a good rant, especially a well spoken one.


And I know what you mean about it being so special to people, the guy next to me was trying to predict the dialogue throughout the film. My kid is one of those, though she's a big enough geek to be able to enjoy it while being objective enough with her criticisms. Her favorite thing was that they finally confirmed that Leia went through the Jedi training, Carrie Fisher is a straight up idol to her so that was very important.