Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[The Walrus]

Just finished Ep.4. Color me surprised by Gina Carano. She was so wooden in Deadpool but she was really good here. I have to believe she is coming back because she is on a lot of the posters and other stuff I see for the show. I would bet we might get her for the rest of the season. We're still missing the droid from the posters and artwork I have seen.

Anyway, another really good episode. So glad they didn't wimp out and CGI the baby. Going the Muppet route is absolutely the right move.

I thought episode 4 was the most entertaining, and she was fun to watch. I really liked watching the baby in that episode too. I wonder if we'll finally get some details on what his race is... or if it's just there as a cleverly marketed fan love character.

[jammindude]

Jon Faverau really loves Kung Fu. 

(the show, not the fighting style)

[faizoff]

Ep. 4 spoilers...






Baby Yoda is hilariously awesome. I legit twitched and died when that scope zoomed in on him and the birds flew. They didn't even give a second to get ready for inevitable doom. Every episode seems like its needs a scene to show just to make it appear baby yoda is bye bye.
.. and I'm loving it.

[ProfessorPeart]

It is pretty funny that Baby Yoda is both the primary focus of the show right now and the primary comic relief.

Every time he's in the ship he is playing with knobs and buttons, and it's funny. Every time Mando tells him to stay, you know what's going to happen and it's still funny. The soup drinking scene, etc.

[gmillerdrake]

Really enjoying 'The Mandalorian'. I wish the episodes were longer but I can get over that. They're done well and the story is moving at a pretty good pace. The character is being built brick by brick....and I think the payoff with them taking their time to build this character will probably be worth it.

[bosk1]

So, Mandalorian, ep. 4...  I have mixed feelings.  I kinda like the '80s gang-on-the-run feel, ala A-Team, The Incredible Hulk, etc.  And there's something about a "train the villagers to fight" montage that works every single time.  I saw a comment somewhere else that cracked me up:  "Mando should start the training/planning by saying, 'OK, to start we’re gonna need, like, six Ewoks.'"    The only real issue I had with this episode is one of my common complaints within the Star Wars universe and many other popular franchises, which is that I hate when either in terms of time, or distance, or scale, things are too "small."  For instance, it annoys me when travel that has to take a considerable amount of time happens instantaneously.  Or when locations that, of necessity, must be fairly distant are artificially very close together.  It is usually very correctable, and takes me out of the moment when it is fairly obvious.  This episode had some of that.  For instance, the enemy encampment was how far away from the village?  Close enough that a dude in full armor could run the full distance at a dead sprint without passing out.  i.e. VERY close.  That's just...odd.  You don't camp that close to your enemies, no matter how superior your numbers.  And that is especially true when your primary strategy seems to be: whenever we need food, let's sneak up, and then burst forth and take what we need from these villagers who are caught completely off-guard and can only just run away.  Again, not a huge deal.  But it is SO easy to correct that it is all the more annoying that they do it.  Anyhow, that said, this was another fun episode.  This is a great series. 

EDIT:  And pretty good article theorizing about how tracking fobs actually work, which is cool since, on its face, the series seems to contradict itself on a couple of points.  https://www.theringer.com/mandalorian/2019/11/29/20988035/mandalorian-chapter-4-recap-sanctuary-baby-yoda-sorgan

[bosk1]

I love this story:

Disney Screens ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Three Weeks Early for Dying Fan

Disney chairman and CEO Bob Iger marked the Thanksgiving holiday by allowing the studio’s upcoming holiday tentpole “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” to screen three weeks early for a terminally ill “Star Wars” fan at Rowans Hospice in Hampshire, England. The medical center confirmed the patient and his son watched “Rise of Skywalker” on November 29, 2019. Iger wrote on social media that Disney was “grateful to be able to share” the film early, adding, “May the force be with you and with us all.”

Rowans Hospice issued a statement on behalf of the patient, who has decided to remain anonymous. “I just want to say the biggest thank you to everyone that has helped to make this happen,” the patient said. “During what is just a horrible situation to be in, you have helped to make some wonderful memories and bring some joy to my family. I am a huge ‘Star Wars’ fan and what I am going through is completely dire. Then to top it all, I thought I wasn’t going to see the film I have been waiting to see since 1977. I still can’t believe it. The only way I can describe this to you is to say that this must be what it feels like to be told you have won a million pounds.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-screens-early-dying-fan-1202193518/

[Orbert]

Wow, that's awesome.   

[gmillerdrake]

A 1:00 am showing was just added to a local theater on 12/19. I'm going that night at 9:30pm with the family.....but....am tempted to go and see this right out of the gate

[Samsara]

I love this story:

Disney Screens ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Three Weeks Early for Dying Fan

Disney chairman and CEO Bob Iger marked the Thanksgiving holiday by allowing the studio’s upcoming holiday tentpole “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” to screen three weeks early for a terminally ill “Star Wars” fan at Rowans Hospice in Hampshire, England. The medical center confirmed the patient and his son watched “Rise of Skywalker” on November 29, 2019. Iger wrote on social media that Disney was “grateful to be able to share” the film early, adding, “May the force be with you and with us all.”

Rowans Hospice issued a statement on behalf of the patient, who has decided to remain anonymous. “I just want to say the biggest thank you to everyone that has helped to make this happen,” the patient said. “During what is just a horrible situation to be in, you have helped to make some wonderful memories and bring some joy to my family. I am a huge ‘Star Wars’ fan and what I am going through is completely dire. Then to top it all, I thought I wasn’t going to see the film I have been waiting to see since 1977. I still can’t believe it. The only way I can describe this to you is to say that this must be what it feels like to be told you have won a million pounds.”

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-screens-early-dying-fan-1202193518/

 

Glad Disney was able to do it.

[Phoenix87x]

Yet another great episode of The Mandalorian. The show is very decent.

[faizoff]

It's a fun show from episode to episode. I really am enjoying the self contained nature of these episodes. With another 3 epidoses left I would imagine we will now dive more into Mando's consequences of taking baby Yoda plus maybe learn the importance of the baby and why the empire wanted them.

[lordxizor]

Damn, forgot to watch this morning. I have to get up super early on Fridays and usually watch it first thing. Forgot all about it today.

[faizoff]

The latest episode was also packed with references to the movies.

[gmillerdrake]

Saw a headline that read:

“Star Wars Fans Aren’t Arguing About ‘The Mandalorian’ and It’s Weird”

 

[Phoenix87x]

I thought it was cool that there was actually communication with the Tuscan Raiders. That was a first and fleshed them out a little more.

[Orbert]

Saw a headline that read:

“Star Wars Fans Aren’t Arguing About ‘The Mandalorian’ and It’s Weird”

 

My son mentioned this exact headline at dinner tonight.

[lordxizor]

A few too many call backs and fan service things in the latest episode, but I still enjoyed it.

[gmillerdrake]

A few too many call backs and fan service things in the latest episode, but I still enjoyed it.

I think it just had to do with the fact he was on Tatooine. Anything that was said or where he went would seem familiar.

[Adami]

I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.

[jingle.boy]

I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.

The Han/Greedo table was a painful wink at the camera.  Otherwise, I agree with you.

[lordxizor]

I think, for being where they were, they handled the callbacks very well. It was logical rather than winking at the camera.

The Han/Greedo table was a painful wink at the camera.  Otherwise, I agree with you.

That was the one that was the most over the top for me. The mention of beggar's canyon was a bit much for me as well.

[Adami]

Doing my big rewatch before Episode IX. Not counting any TV shows (though I am watching Mandalorian) and I'm also skipping Solo since it sucks and is pointless.


Did Episode I a few days ago, and....oh man, it's just so bad. It's actually worse than I remember it being. It's aimed at little kids for so much of it, but the plot is about trade federation embargos? Eh.

Doing Episode II now, and.......it's even worse. Everything so far has just been stupid as hell. Anakin jumps out of the flying car and lands on the assassins car? He'd have to know where she was, how fast she was going, exactly when she'd be when, etc, to make that jump. "I hate when he does that"...HOW MANY TIMES IS HE DOING THAT?!?

Also, Palpatine hires Dooku to kill Padme. He hires some other people (I think) they hire Jango. Jango hires shapeshifting girl. Shapeshifter uses droid. Droid uses evil worms. Seriously?



I guess not so unrealistic after all.

[Adami]

Wait, they wanted any army but knew the senate would never approve an army. So instead the senate approves emergency powers? Come on!

[faizoff]

I too just re-watched Phantom Menace, the tone is very confusing throughout. The acting and dialogue is meant to be simplistic and I guess appeal to younger kids but like you said the story is very convoluted for a child to follow. Hell I'm not sure of it myself, it's not very clear. CGI Yoda I do have to admit looked better than the puppet Yoda they originally used.

The look of the movie on Blu-ray has not aged well at all. The entire movie looks like a dream sequence and the textures haven't upscaled well, only passable CGI character is Watto I think.

Getting ready to watch Attack of the Clones.

[jingle.boy]

Doing Episode II now, and.......it's even worse. Everything so far has just been stupid as hell. Anakin jumps out of the flying car and lands on the assassins car? He'd have to know where she was, how fast she was going, exactly when she'd be when, etc, to make that jump. "I hate when he does that"...HOW MANY TIMES IS HE DOING THAT?!?

Because the Force!

[bosk1]

Caught up on The Mandalorian now.  I share precisely zero of the complaints a few people have about that episode.  But my son made an interesting observation in a tongue-in-cheek manner:  For Tatooine to be such an out-of-the-way, backwater, nowhere planet, a lot of important people seem to randomly show up there.

[Adami]

Caught up on The Mandalorian now.  I share precisely zero of the complaints a few people have about that episode.  But my son made an interesting observation in a tongue-in-cheek manner:  For Tatooine to be such an out-of-the-way, backwater, nowhere planet, a lot of important people seem to randomly show up there.

Star Wars, in general, is one of those things where if you start really thinking about stuff like that, it all falls apart, so we just don't think about it.

[bosk1]

Oh, sure.  I like that he could say something like that, and we could just laugh it off and enjoy the episode.  That's a lot of Star Wars for me.  The world-building and character building is so much fun, and the environment is so immersive, that it's easy for me to shrug off a lot of stuff that really bothers a lot of people and just have fun with it. 

That said, I've been thinking a little bit about the overall story arc of the films now and was thinking about doing a short film-by-film list of the things I loved/hated about each one.  Not to hate on any of them, but just for fun now that we're near the end of the Skywalker saga.

[jammindude]

Here's the thing.   The booth that is so infamous to us...is just a booth in this universe.    I mean, *I* sat at Lemmy's spot at the Rainbow Bar and Grill on the Sunset Strip.   It's just a spot at the bar.   Lots of people sit in that booth.   People sit in that booth every...single...day.   Most of the time nothing happens.   We see a few times when it did.   

And to be honest, in this episode, we saw almost nothing happen.  Which almost makes it MORE real.

[Adami]

Here's the thing.   The booth that is so infamous to us...is just a booth in this universe.    I mean, *I* sat at Lemmy's spot at the Rainbow Bar and Grill on the Sunset Strip.   It's just a spot at the bar.   Lots of people sit in that booth.   People sit in that booth every...single...day.   Most of the time nothing happens.   We see a few times when it did.   

And to be honest, in this episode, we saw almost nothing happen.  Which almost makes it MORE real.

I agree. I actually like the fact that the bar was basically dead. It was a more real approach. If the bar had been packed with the Kantina band and everything, it would've taken me out of it a bit.

[bosk1]

My take on the story so far is below.  I think maybe I'll do one of these a day.  I want to keep them short and relatively concise, but still have enough for discussion.  Anyway, here is the first:

Ep. I The Phantom Menace:  Lucas really wanted to play up the political intrigue in how the seeds of the empire were first planted.  By and large, I think it worked.  But the problem for him is that he also wanted to market the film to kids.  This resulted in a film (and trilogy) that felt very bi-polar and unsure of what it wanted to be.  By and large, I think this movie was okay.  It had some brilliant moments, but was mired in some stuff that didn't work for me and a lot of others. 

Three things that worked: 
-1.  Palpatine operating behind the scenes the way he did.  Even though we all knew he was Sidious, it didn't matter.
-2.  Maul:  Probably self-explanatory.
-3.  The pod race:  I will grudgingly give this one, in the general sense.  I have come around after a long time.  But I still think it needed to be fixed.
Three things that didn't:
-1.  The way Anakin won the pod race:  It was too silly.
-2.  Anakin's involvement in the final space battle:  This and the previous point go together.  I see what Lucas was going for.  On one hand, Anakin's force sensitivity was off the charts, so he would be gifted in using the force even if he didn't know it.  On the other hand, he was a gifted pilot as well.  But the way Lucas tried to show both Anakin's force sensitivity and his piloting skills was completely ineffective and came across as him blundering into doing the right thing by just dumb luck.  And "let's try spinning" was just stupid, as was randomly pushing buttons while shooting up the interior of the mother ship. 
-3.  Padme being so much older than Anakin.  Not a problem just for this film.  But knowing what was coming, it just takes me out of the moment SO much.  And, yes, this bothers me more than Jar-Jar.  I guess I could have gone for the low-hanging fruit and pick Jar-Jar.  But, honestly, Jar-Jar wasn't that big of a problem.  Yeah, he was dumb and over the top at times.  But he didn't really distract me.  The other three issues were bigger in terms of the whole PT.
Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Really, only a couple of things.  Re-do the pod race so that (1) Anakin is not so far behind and miraculously catches the rest of the pack for no good reason other than...just because, and (2) he actually shows some skill and force sensitivity.  Yeah, he can still be a kid who doesn't necessarily understand all the nuances of how or why he is so good.  But we needed something.  Similarly, fix the final space battle in a similar way.  And lastly, have "Queen Amidala," the main political figure in this mess, be an older woman and be Padme's mom.  Just have Padme be the princess who is much closer to Anakin's age, and have them immediately take to each other.  She can still have some role in helping with the conflict to show that she will grow into an important, capable woman.  And it somewhat eliminates the creep factor and suspension of belief in Ep. II, and actually works to make their later romance more believable.

More to follow...

[Adami]

As far as Palpatine's manipulation goes, I'll give you ...most...of the political stuff.

Though him getting emergency powers in II is still really dumb and illogical.

But Anakin could not have been a part of any plan and must have been a happy coincidence.

[pg1067]

Ep. I The Phantom Menace:  Lucas really wanted to play up the political intrigue in how the seeds of the empire were first planted.  By and large, I think it worked.  But the problem for him is that he also wanted to market the film to kids.  This resulted in a film (and trilogy) that felt very bi-polar and unsure of what it wanted to be.  By and large, I think this movie was okay.  It had some brilliant moments, but was mired in some stuff that didn't work for me and a lot of others. 

This is a good, succinct summary of the problem with this movie.  I liked it at the time and don't dislike it now, but I don't love it.

-3.  Padme being so much older than Anakin.  Not a problem just for this film.  But knowing what was coming, it just takes me out of the moment SO much.  And, yes, this bothers me more than Jar-Jar.  I guess I could have gone for the low-hanging fruit and pick Jar-Jar.  But, honestly, Jar-Jar wasn't that big of a problem.  Yeah, he was dumb and over the top at times.  But he didn't really distract me.  The other three issues were bigger in terms of the whole PT.
Minor tweaks that could have made it better:  Really, only a couple of things.  Re-do the pod race so that (1) Anakin is not so far behind and miraculously catches the rest of the pack for no good reason other than...just because, and (2) he actually shows some skill and force sensitivity.  Yeah, he can still be a kid who doesn't necessarily understand all the nuances of how or why he is so good.  But we needed something.  Similarly, fix the final space battle in a similar way.  And lastly, have "Queen Amidala," the main political figure in this mess, be an older woman and be Padme's mom.  Just have Padme be the princess who is much closer to Anakin's age, and have them immediately take to each other.  She can still have some role in helping with the conflict to show that she will grow into an important, capable woman.  And it somewhat eliminates the creep factor and suspension of belief in Ep. II, and actually works to make their later romance more believable.

I agree with this, but I think Jar Jar is more than just low-hanging fruit, and this ties back into the bi-polar nature of the movie.  JJ was a reasonable distraction when he was first introduced, and it was useful that he could provide the jedi with a place to hide from the initial droid army invasion.  But that's as far as it realistically should have gone.  The most unbelievable part was JJ, a bumbling oaf who had been banished, acting as a broker between the Naboo and the Gungans.  It was also distracting having all of the Gungans basically being Keystone Cops, with any advances they made on the battlefield being completely absurd consequences of JJ's clumsiness.

[bosk1]

...The most unbelievable part was JJ, a bumbling oaf who had been banished, acting as a broker between the Naboo and the Gungans.  It was also distracting having all of the Gungans basically being Keystone Cops, with any advances they made on the battlefield being completely absurd consequences of JJ's clumsiness.

Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of that.  But I had a much easier time overlooking that than the stuff I mentioned.  JJ was, at best, a sidekick.  Anakin is the centerpiece of the entire saga and is much more important, so issues with him being unbelievable are much more glaring to me.  And the Padme thing fits right into that because, next to Obi Wan and Sidious, she is arguably the most important character in the PT, and because her relationship with Anakin goes right back to my first point about Anakin being the centerpiece.  But, yes, I basically agree with you.  I guess that would be my "3.b."  And like much of my criticisms, I can't escape feeling that, with only relatively minor tweaking, Jar-Jar could have been just fine.  Just dial back the "bumbling oafishness" enough to not have the consequences of his clumsiness/silliness be SO absurd, and I think you have an acceptable middle ground of getting the laughs from little kids while not being so distracting to make the adults roll their eyes.