Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[Adami]

First of all, your tongue is always welcome to my cheek. Or something.


But I think I was more going against the lowered acceptance level. I saw it a lot with Transformers. "I don't care if it's good, I just want it to be fun." Jesus Herman Christ, why can't it be both? Why are we assuming that fun equals not good? Why are we willing to have it be bad as long as it's fun? I mean, I get that some things are trying to be bad and fun, and that's different. That's the intent.

Lazy is what won't tolerate. Transformers isn't meant to be bad, they just stopped caring and became VERY lazy.

On the prequels, GL became so focused on the visuals that he just became lazy with everything else. If you see behind the scenes or hear interviews with the actors, you'll see what I mean. That is something I don't tolerate. Campy is fine. Bad with intent is fine. Lazy because who cares it'll look pretty? Nope.

No, I hear you and I actually agree with you.  We're kind of talking about different things (and that's my bad).

I think I understand your overall point. If I go to the local community theater to see Les Miserables, I don't expect Broadway level talent. That's fine and dandy, as long as those people are giving it their all.

But with the prequels? Those were some god damn talented people giving us crap. Like I said, I blame Lucas because I feel he got VERY lazy with his directing and didn't do a good job doing what he was supposed to do. But the end result is the same, sub-par acting. The fact that's it's Star Wars doesn't change that. I wouldn't care if it's Star Wars or Fart Wars, I want good actors to give me good acting.

[Zook]

I'd also like to point out that, of the main actors in the prequels, mainly Hayden, Sam Jackson, Natalie, Ewan, Ian, etc, they are all fantastic actors. The fact that they mostly suck is, I feel, completely George Lucas's fault.

Except the kid who played young Anakin. That kid was just bad.

As cruel as it sounds, I HATE kid actors.   I really do.  I didn't think the kid in Jerry Maguire was cute or charming, I never bought into the Olsen twins phenomenon, hated the "Coreys" both single and together, and I still to this day wonder why every kid on a network TV show under the age of 12 talks like they spoke their first words last Tuesday.  "Mommy, is that man a bad man?  Will he hurt my daddy, mommy?"   GTFO.   I've got four kids in my immediate family and another 10 at least in satellite, plus all their friends, and I don't know one kid that talks that way.

The only one I really like?  Peter Billingsley.  He's got just enough of a hint of a subversive kid-level F-You in his performance (you know what I'm talking about) to make it legendary without being saccharine or fake.   

Or when 10 year olds talk like adults. Pure cringe.

[Zantera]

I wouldn't mind a Hayden Christiansen cameo as a force ghost or something in EP9 (or a cameo in the Kenobi show) because like others have said I feel like the biggest problem with the prequels isn't the actors but the writing and the directing. I doubt Daniel Day Lewis would have fared much better reading the "I hate sand" dialogue.

[bosk1]

I agree with almost everything Adami has said over the last page or so, EXCEPT the part about Jake Lloyd.  I DO blame Lucas for his acting/dialog.  I have no clue whether or not he is a quality actor (or, more to the point, whether he was at that time).  But I don't blame Lloyd for stupid lines like "Let's try spinning!" or "THIS is podracing."  He didn't come up with those lines.  Lucas did.  I didn't have any problem with the way he delivered his lines, either the examples that I pointed to or others.  I had a problem with the lines themselves. 

[Adami]

I agree with almost everything Adami has said over the last page or so, EXCEPT the part about Jake Lloyd.  I DO blame Lucas for his acting/dialog.  I have no clue whether or not he is a quality actor (or, more to the point, whether he was at that time).  But I don't blame Lloyd for stupid lines like "Let's try spinning!" or "THIS is podracing."  He didn't come up with those lines.  Lucas did.  I didn't have any problem with the way he delivered his lines, either the examples that I pointed to or others.  I had a problem with the lines themselves.

I only blame Lloyd because I have seen him in other things around that time and he was equally bad.

I doubt Lucas helped at all though.

[Zantera]

I have only seen Jake Lloyd in 2 movies - The Phantom Menace and Jingle All the Way and he is really bad in both and overacting but they're both comedic farces so it's hard to tell how much is on the directing, the writing and the actual acting. I do think one of the big flaws of the prequel trilogy is that TPM feels so detached from the other 2. Anakin is basically a new character in AotC and we skipped over all the training and bonding he had with Obi-Wan, so I kinda feel like TPM is unnecessary in many ways. 

[Phoenix87x]

Anakin is basically a new character in AotC and we skipped over all the training and bonding he had with Obi-Wan, so I kinda feel like TPM is unnecessary in many ways.

Agree 100%, I would have liked it better if:

Episode I- goes over all the conflict that leads to the breakout of the clone wars and "begun is clone war has" is the end of Episode I
Episode II- Full blown clone war, and the run & gun life or death survival brings Anakin/Padme closer together instead of the picnic/forced love  scenes we got

Episode III- Wrap up of the Clone war and Rise of the empire (which is basically what we got)

[Phoenix87x]

Mandalorian Episode 3 was excellent. Lots of kick ass action 

[faizoff]

Agreed, I love the bounty hunter world and really hope there is more of that later on.

[jammindude]

Has anyone else mentioned that it's obviously shot in 1:2.35?   I'm wondering what the purpose of this is if not to maybe re-release it in theaters as a Fathom event?     I just can't see another logical reason why this would have been shot widescreen like it is. 

[gmillerdrake]

Side Note:

Being that they are planning the Obi Wan series to show the happenings and goings on with him during that period of time after ROTS and ANH.....Id personally love to see them do the same with Vadar.

Show him just terrorizing the galaxy for all those years.....being a bad a$$.....build the lore in more detail. Plus it’d be a cool way to do a show....from the perspective of a ‘bad’ guy.

[jingle.boy]

Side Note:

Being that they are planning the Obi Wan series to show the happenings and goings on with him during that period of time after ROTS and ANH.....Id personally love to see them do the same with Vadar.

Show him just terrorizing the galaxy for all those years.....being a bad a$$.....build the lore in more detail. Plus it’d be a cool way to do a show....from the perspective of a ‘bad’ guy.

I read the two books of the extended universe that chronicled the events right before and right after ROTS - Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (both written by the same guy).  The latter had Vader hunting down Jed.  Both were pretty fucking cool.

[lordxizor]

I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

[gmillerdrake]

I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.

[lordxizor]

I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.

I'm sure they could. It would just seem wrong though. And I think it would be better for star wars to love on to other things for a while

[gmillerdrake]

I wouldn't mind them doing a Vader series if James Earl Jones is on board. Once he's no longer willing or able to do Vader's voice, I think they need to retire that character.

I would think that they could re-create that voice by now? I’d personally be fine with a recreated voice that was in the ballpark.

I'm sure they could. It would just seem wrong though. And I think it would be better for star wars to love on to other things for a while

I don't disagree. It'd be neat to delve into other aspects of that universe. Lots of options. I just think a Vadar series set in him 'prime' years of terror and reign...were it be done right..... would be pretty cool.

[Adami]

I disagree about a Vader series. For a series to work, the main character needs a compelling arc. They need to start in one place and end up somehow changed. Or it’s just not super interesting. We know there isn’t a huge difference between Vader at the end of Revenge and the beginning of A New Hope. You could easily force an arc of sorts but it wouldn’t be organic. As neat as it would be to see Vader hunt down Jedi and be awesome, I can’t see 8-10  episodes being compelling. Maybe if the show were about the Jedi being hunted. That way we can make a good character arc since we don’t know them, and Vader can be the villain and thus not necessarily need a compelling character turn or growth.

[gmillerdrake]

I disagree about a Vader series. For a series to work, the main character needs a compelling arc. They need to start in one place and end up somehow changed. Or it’s just not super interesting. We know there isn’t a huge difference between Vader at the end of Revenge and the beginning of A New Hope. You could easily force an arc of sorts but it wouldn’t be organic. As neat as it would be to see Vader hunt down Jedi and be awesome, I can’t see 8-10  episodes being compelling. Maybe if the show were about the Jedi being hunted. That way we can make a good character arc since we don’t know them, and Vader can be the villain and thus not necessarily need a compelling character turn or growth.

That would be interesting. But....at the same time we know most of them would be caught and killed by Vadar. The killer aspect of that cameo on R1 was his complete badassery when boarding the Rebel ship in chase of the downloaded plans. Seeing him throttle people was just awesome....and, given how feared he was it'd be cool to see him in more instances where he's battled and won.

[Adami]

I agree seeing Vader be awesome is awesome. But it won’t make a good show. It makes for good scenes though. It’s like ice cream. It’s delicious but if we it for every meal, it quickly turns to regret. And even if we know the Jedi die at the end, that’s fine. It can still be a character journey. Vader in that time frame really has no character journey, just cool scenes.

I just think if you want more cool Vader scenes, then use him for that purpose. Like in Rogue 1. Have him show up as the bad guy on occasion and mess stuff up. But let other new people be the protagonists of the show.

[gmillerdrake]

I agree seeing Vader be awesome is awesome. But it won’t make a good show. It makes for good scenes though. It’s like ice cream. It’s delicious but if we it for every meal, it quickly turns to regret. And even if we know the Jedi die at the end, that’s fine. It can still be a character journey. Vader in that time frame really has no character journey, just cool scenes.

I just think if you want more cool Vader scenes, then use him for that purpose. Like in Rogue 1. Have him show up as the bad guy on occasion and mess stuff up. But let other new people be the protagonists of the show.

I’m In. Make it happen!

[lordxizor]

My prediction for The Mandelorian is that baby Yoda is being saught after by the person who will become supreme leader Snoke. Snoke wants to steal baby Yoda's midichlorians in order to grow his own Force powers. He will ultimately succeed.

You saw it here first.

Though I don't actually hope The Mandelorian ties in directly with the sequel trilogy.

[Adami]

My prediction for The Mandelorian is that baby Yoda is being saught after by the person who will become supreme leader Snoke. Snoke wants to steal baby Yoda's midichlorians in order to grow his own Force powers. He will ultimately succeed.

You saw it here first.

Though I don't actually hope The Mandelorian ties in directly with the sequel trilogy.

Oh god I hope you’re wrong. No offense.

If the main message of this show us that nothing in the entire SW matters unless it relates to the big movies, then that is a damn shame.

[jingle.boy]

What Adami said.  This better be 100% standalone.  Everything else has had to tie in to the SW movies in some way.  It would be nice to see something stand on it's own merits.

[lordxizor]

I hope I'm wrong too. I want it to be a standalone series as well. I'd rather it didn't tie in to anything else. I do almost wish they'd left the Force out of it altogether, though baby Yoda is cute as hell. We'll see where it all goes I guess.

[Zantera]

I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.

[Adami]

I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.

See, I just don't want it connected to the new movies. At all. I just can't get behind the message that nothing in the ENTIRE GOD DAMN SW UNIVERSE matters at all unless it ties into Jedi and the Empire and Snoke and Skywalkers. Like, a good show about bounty hunters is great. It would just suck if we're told that no one is of any importance unless it's related to the big movies.

To be fair, I also feel this way about Marvel. I would see a lot of people complaining about how movies like Ant-Man weren't worth watching because it didn't directly tie into Thanos and stuff. I just don't get that. I like having the overall plot, but having unrelated stuff happen is also really fun.

[Zantera]

I don't think I would mind if the setup is Snoke wants the baby for future apprentice or to kill it (maybe fearing it can get too powerful) because then it would tie into the overall story a bit but the implications don't have to be that big. But if it's about stealing its midichlorians and thats how Snoke got powerful then it has a big impact on the movies and at that point I don't like it. I feel like you can tie certain things together without making them depend on each other. If for example Snoke only wants the baby dead then it doesn't impact the movies BUT if it's how he got his powers then it changes things.

See, I just don't want it connected to the new movies. At all. I just can't get behind the message that nothing in the ENTIRE GOD DAMN SW UNIVERSE matters at all unless it ties into Jedi and the Empire and Snoke and Skywalkers. Like, a good show about bounty hunters is great. It would just suck if we're told that no one is of any importance unless it's related to the big movies.

To be fair, I also feel this way about Marvel. I would see a lot of people complaining about how movies like Ant-Man weren't worth watching because it didn't directly tie into Thanos and stuff. I just don't get that. I like having the overall plot, but having unrelated stuff happen is also really fun.

Oh yeah I mean overall I prefer if this stays its own thing. If they HAVE to connect things (which I guess they want because its the fan service thing to do) I feel like there's better ways to do it. But yeah one of my favorite things about the show so far is the lack of jedi, sith and death stars, there's no giant looming galaxy destroying threat, it's just a pretty simple story that takes place in the universe.

[lordxizor]

So baby Yoda is pretty much the cutest thing ever.

And The Mandalorian Episode 4 was pretty good!

[lonestar]

Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.

[lordxizor]

Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.

yeah, I was hoping she would stick around for a while. I enjoyed there being more dialog in this episode.

[ProfessorPeart]

Just finished Ep.4. Color me surprised by Gina Carano. She was so wooden in Deadpool but she was really good here. I have to believe she is coming back because she is on a lot of the posters and other stuff I see for the show. I would bet we might get her for the rest of the season. We're still missing the droid from the posters and artwork I have seen.

Anyway, another really good episode. So glad they didn't wimp out and CGI the baby. Going the Muppet route is absolutely the right move.

[Phoenix87x]

Cara Dune reminds me of Mara Jade and I like that. Episode 4 was decent

[jingle.boy]

Yup, excellent episode. Really hope the Cara Dune character comes back, liked her.

yeah, I was hoping she would stick around for a while. I enjoyed there being more dialog in this episode.

IMDB has her coming back for more.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I recently played Jedi Fallen Order. Great game! I strongly recommend for anyone who has not played, and if you're not a gamer, there are probably worse ways to spend your time than watching an abridged version via YouTube.

On a less exciting note, I searched for "Star Wars" on YouTube in search of the newest TV spot. One of the first videos I saw was some random video with hundreds of thousands of views that was entitled FANS TRY TO JUSTIFY REY BEING A MARY SUE!!! I have no idea why this video was recommended to me, but damn if it isn't annoying for Star Wars to always lead to some dumpster fire fan being pissed off about something.

Not saying the new movies don't deserve criticism BTW. Just that it can kill the vibe sometimes. And now I'm killing the vibe.

[Phoenix87x]

I also recommend Fallen Order. Its a lot of fun and the graphics are fantastic. The salvage yard first level is jaw dropping in places.