Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Evermind]

Actually, I think if you cut the first three songs from Awake, it can be one of my favourites from DT.

I will! It's slow, monotonous, repetitive and boring. It truly is the black sheep of the DT library of songs. I often don't listen to Awake because I know it'll just end on a sour note.  Also, boring to play, no wonder Jordan got bored with this song on the JLB duo version. Arguably this would have been the best version imo with those additions from JR... - If JP hadn't stolen the show with his guitar solo in the recent live versions.

no

No indeed.

I don't get the fascination with Erotomania. It's a good instrumental but not mind-blowing.

I agree.

The whole The Mirror/Lie/Lifting Shadows swing is overrated as well.

I don't agree.

[Crow]

Erotomania is good but not the best DT instrumental. Hell's Kitchen is.
Apparently it might be controversial now to say that Awake is your favorite DT album? 

[abydos]

Erotomania is recognizable, has nice riffs, melody (something JP abd JR have forgotten about as of late) and just  feels like a coherent piece of music. Unlike Enigma Machine for instance, which to me is only "lol betya can't play this" and nothing else.

[425]

Sure, Erotomania "feels like a coherent piece of music." It's a good song. But Stream of Consciousness is about 40 or 50 times better. I would also rank Eve, Overture 1928 and maybe Hell's Kitchen ahead of Erotomania.

And Enigma Machine is definitely a coherent piece of music.

The whole The Mirror/Lie/Lifting Shadows swing is overrated as well.

I don't agree.

It's not that I think they're bad songs (well, I don't care for Lie all that much), but I just don't get why people seem to like them as much as they do. I listen to The Mirror, and I think "this is fairly good," not "wow top 25 DT song." Same thing with LSOAD.

I think Awake is a good album, for sure. But I don't think it's one of their best. It was their second-best in 1994, but did not rise above the rank of second-worst until 2002. Let's see if anybody comments on that oh-so-subtle dig.

[Enigmachine]

Unlike Enigma Machine for instance, which to me is only "lol betya can't play this" and nothing else.

Well, there's obviously an element of showmanship to the piece, but with the focus on a clear structure, spy themes, dynamic shifts, catchy riffs and how they break up the solo sections I struggle to see how the song is that shallow. It's also easily the heaviest song on the album (and possibly the heaviest in their discography) and plays a very clear role in the tracklist of DT12 (as well as BtFW, just replace TBP with AftR) as the peak of intensity before the introspection of TBP. To me, it sounds like a fun and energetic ride and has me going every time I listen to it.

Also:

(something JP abd JR have forgotten about as of late)

eh?
I understand that there are people who aren't a fan of the last two albums and that's fine, but this complaint baffles me all the time. Enigma Machine DOES have melody, but it may not be explicitly singable (even though the main riffs have been in my head since its release). Chromatic, angular and abrasive melodies aren't inherently more or less melodic than the consonant and smooth melodies in the middle of Erotomania (where it fits in with its theme, as with Enigma Machine), its just a different kind of melodic. Even if Enigma Machine isn't melodic by typical standards, The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride most definitely are for both John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess.

Also being a coherent piece of music isn't something difficult to do and shouldn't really be applauded. Incoherency isn't a bad thing either, as I would call The Dance of Eternity, the middle sections of Metropolis and Outcry and the instrumental section of Octavarium before Intervals all incoherent, yet hugely enjoyable and fit the song / album they feature in.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

I agree with you, partly. I think each instrumental has a different purposes.
SoC is the MOST bad@$$ out of all the instrumentals while Hells kitchen is the most passionate.
The Enigma machine is just a raw powerhouse that puts you in the correct mood for the rest of the album.
Erotomania, I loved it very much, especially the part where Moore plays a sweet sweet melody while Petrucci riffs. It's an intro to the mind beside itself and it just brings you...errr pleasure I guess, because of the title.

Well, I give Mirror it's credit because it is technically the first song about Portnoy's alcoholic problem. But I agree, it is in the top 50 as there are better songs. Also, Lie is a really good song especially how Labrie does his vocals in the beginning. The ending is the repeat of the mirrors theme with a sweet Petrucci solo. And Lifting Shadows is a sweet Myung song that is extremely deep. I love the calm soothing feeling it gives. They are all good songs, I wouldn't call them overrated.

[Train of Naught]

I personally rated Enigma way higher than Erotomania, while Enigma has in my opinion some nice catchy riffs, the Erotomania main riff just plain annoyed me from the beginning up until now.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

I personally rated Enigma way higher than Erotomania, while Enigma has in my opinion some nice catchy riffs, the Erotomania main riff just plain annoyed me from the beginning up until now.

What about Moore and Rudess playing the theme of the silent man? And Petrucci's solo near the end?

[Train of Naught]

Nearly nothing by Moore on his Dream Theater contribution has disappointed me, including his solo sections on Erotomania, and I like Petrucci's ending solo aswell, but dat main riff mangggg. This song definitely gets better from the The Silent Man part up untl the end though.

[TheCountOfNYC]

All of this talk about which instrumental is best and somehow The Dance of Eternity wasn't mentioned once. As far as I'm concerned, that is by far their best instrumental. It's 6 minutes of pure insanity and every last second of it is perfect.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

All of this talk about which instrumental is best and somehow The Dance of Eternity wasn't mentioned once. As far as I'm concerned, that is by far their best instrumental. It's 6 minutes of pure insanity and every last second of it is perfect.

Well the best at being technical, but in terms of passion, it would be hells kitchen and in terms of bad@$$ery (not sure If that's a word) it'd be SoC.

[KevShmev]

All of this talk about which instrumental is best and somehow The Dance of Eternity wasn't mentioned once. As far as I'm concerned, that is by far their best instrumental. It's 6 minutes of pure insanity and every last second of it is perfect.

Probably because it's one of their least best.

[TheGreatPretender]

Nearly nothing by Moore on his Dream Theater contribution has disappointed me, including his solo sections on Erotomania, and I like Petrucci's ending solo aswell, but dat main riff mangggg. This song definitely gets better from the The Silent Man part up untl the end though.

Yeah, that main riff and the keyboard tone is just grating. Sure, the song gets better near the end, but that's not even half of the song. I'd take Enigma Machine over Erotomania any day.

But yes, The Dance of Eternity blows everything else out of the water.

[425]

I wouldn't say it's underrated, because whenever people talk about it it's all positive things, but I think Stream of Consciousness should be mentioned more. To me it's definitely their best instrumental.

[Train of Naught]

There was a time where I thought Stream of Consciousness went on for way too long and got boring near the end, bu that's all in the past, favorite instrumental by far, followed by Dance.

[Ben_Jamin]

INSTRUMENTAL RANKING TIME:

Stream of Consciousness
Erotomania
Eve
Hells Kitchen
Ytsejam
Enigma Machine
Overture:1928
The Dance of Eternity
False Awakening Suite
Raw Dog
Overture


I love SoC since I first watched Budakon. Erotomania I love Moores keyboard tones and melodies, plus JP's tone as well. Eve is just a thing of beauty.

The rest are equally good as well.

[hefdaddy42]

WHERE IS RAW DOG

[TheCountOfNYC]

Here's mine:

The Dance of Eternity
Stream of Consciousness
Erotomania
Overture 1928
False Awakening Suite
Ytse Jam
Hell's Kitchen
Raw Dog
Enigma Machine
Eve

[jakepriest]

Stream of Consciousness
Hell's Kitchen
The Dance of Eternity
Overture 1928
Erotomania
Ytse Jam
Eve
Raw Dog
Overture



Enigma Machine

[425]

We're doing this?

Raw Dog
Stream of Consciousness
Eve
Overture 1928
Hell's Kitchen
Erotomania
False Awakening Suite
The Dance of Eternity
Ytse Jam
Enigma Machine

Overture does not count because it is not an instrumental. It is part of a song that has vocals. The Darkest of Winters does not belong on a ranking of instrumentals, either.

WHERE IS RAW DOG

I thought it was assumed to be at the top and I didn't even have to type it? Oh well, I typed it just for you.

[hefdaddy42]

I knew it.

You are a crazy person.

[JLa]

Sure, Erotomania "feels like a coherent piece of music." It's a good song. But Stream of Consciousness is about 40 or 50 times better.

No. Just no. Erotomania >>> SoC.

... I might be biased because Erotomania was the song that got me into DT in the first place...

[NotePad]

I'd like to see an album by them that's very Iron Maiden influenced. Just like most of their stuff is very Rush and Yes inspired, ToT is very Tool and Metallica inspired, I'd love to see them do an album Maiden inspired.

Considering they're Dream Theater, it would probably end up being more like newer progressive Maiden, which is my favorite actually. It would have to be rawer then their usual style, and of course would have way longer instrumental passages then anything you'd hear from Maiden. I predict an Iron Maiden inspired DT album would end up sounding a lot like Awake, except with longer songs with longer instrumental passages, and more lyrics similar to the lyrics of The Count of Tuscany and lyrics like what's on Systematic Chaos. Would be awesome. I wish DT would experiment more like this.

[Bertielee]

I'd like to see an album by them that's very Iron Maiden influenced. Just like most of their stuff is very Rush and Yes inspired, ToT is very Tool and Metallica inspired, I'd love to see them do an album Maiden inspired.

Considering they're Dream Theater, it would probably end up being more like newer progressive Maiden, which is my favorite actually. It would have to be rawer then their usual style, and of course would have way longer instrumental passages then anything you'd hear from Maiden. I predict an Iron Maiden inspired DT album would end up sounding a lot like Awake, except with longer songs with longer instrumental passages, and more lyrics similar to the lyrics of The Count of Tuscany and lyrics like what's on Systematic Chaos. Would be awesome. I wish DT would experiment more like this.

Er, no, just no, if it means them sounding like SC or TCoT again.

B.Lee

[abydos]

Why? Iron Maiden is just Metallica/Megadeth but bland, without the riffs. They purely exist so BD can waste his talent on them. Nothing in Awake sounds like anything I've heard in IM, so I doubt that very much. If anything, something inspired by Helloween's The Dark Ride or Time of the Oath would sound more like Awake, imo.

Oh, this is not the controversial opinions on IM thread... oops! Oh, and I'd rather see DT disband than produce another album with lyrics like TCOT/SC.

[pcs90]

So I take it I'm the only one who thinks SoC goes on for way too long? I actually prefer some of the fan-made versions of it to the real version.
How someone can say Enigma Machine isn't melodic and is just technical for the sake of it, I don't know. Especially compared to TDOE. Don't get me wrong, TDOE is cool, I'm just saying Enigma Machine is by far much more melodic and catchy if that's how we're going to look at these instrumentals.
And if we're going to talk about the most passionate and emotional ones, Eve has to be in there. That is an absolutely beautiful song, no faults whatsoever IMO...I love Hell's Kitchen too but Eve is definitely my favorite.

[hefdaddy42]

So I take it I'm the only one who thinks SoC goes on for way too long?

Nope.

[Mosh]

It took me a very long time to be able to listen to SC in full past Repentance. Very exhausting album.

[425]

I knew it.

You are a crazy person.

I'm glad my decision to not use green text paid off.

Why? Iron Maiden is just Metallica/Megadeth but bland, without the riffs. They purely exist so BD can waste his talent on them.

I mean, opinions, but Iron Maiden has more great riffs than Metallica and Megadeth combined... Those two have a handful of great albums between them (RTL, AJFA, RIP, Endgame) and Iron Maiden has like eight.

But opinions. And I agree that DT shouldn't try to copy Iron Maiden, there's no point, we already have an Iron Maiden.

[jakepriest]

Imho both Iron Maiden and Metallica (especially Iron Maiden) are boring and if the next DT album sounds anything like them, I wouldn't get it.

[rumborak]

My controversial opinion is, man, this is the first time in their history where I won't even check the forum for a week or more. IMHO their complete lack of communication is backfiring on them.

[SS_0086]

The Dance of Eternity
Overture:1928
Erotomania
Hells Kitchen
Stream of Consciousness
Overture
Eve
Ytsejam
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
Raw Dog

[Train of Naught]

The Dance of Eternity
Stream of Consciousness
Hells Kitchen
Enigma Machine
Overture:1928
False Awakening Suite
Eve
Ytse Jam
Erotomania
Raw Dog

[The Paddies]

For me it would be something like this at this moment:

Scene Two: Overture 1928 (well balanced, great melodies, sets me up for the album)
Eve (Kevin Moore's golden touch, really dreamy)
Hells Kitchen (atmospheric, great build up/crescendo, slightly weird as a stand alone track, but still beautiful)
Erotomania (groovy, melodic, cool changes, great solo's)
Ytse Jam (energetic, cool changes)
The Dance of Eternity (impressive)
Enigma Machine (nice and short, love the breakdown)
Stream of Consciousness (love the first part and main riff, but after that it gets boring really fast, just a lot of notes)
False Awakening Suite (skip it almost every time)
Raw Dog (really doesn't do anything for me)

If Instrumedley was included it would be sitting somewhere in the middle with The Dance Of Eternity.

[Stadler]

Why? Iron Maiden is just Metallica/Megadeth but bland, without the riffs. They purely exist so BD can waste his talent on them. Nothing in Awake sounds like anything I've heard in IM, so I doubt that very much. If anything, something inspired by Helloween's The Dark Ride or Time of the Oath would sound more like Awake, imo.

Oh, this is not the controversial opinions on IM thread... oops! Oh, and I'd rather see DT disband than produce another album with lyrics like TCOT/SC.

Here's a controversial opinion:  Metallica and Megadeth are Maiden without the amazing melodies, awesome twin (triple!!) guitar runs, and (in Megadeath's case), a vocalist who can sing.

I like Metallica a fair amount from The Black Album on, when they learned to write songs instead of stringing riffs together, and there is no doubt of their place in music history (anyone who doubts that, go on Utoob and look up their performance on Later... with Jools Holland.   All the bands are in a circle, and 99 times out of 100, the other bands just sit quietly while the one band performs; during "Cyanide" and especially "Enter Sandman", all the other bands - and I'm not talking metal bands; one was an Adele clone from New Jersey! - were standing and dancing and clapping... one guy was even playing along on his guitar (though it was not miked or amped).  Amazing how they infused energy into that studio!).   But "riffs" are not the sole standard by which bands are judged.