Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Adami]

Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.

Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.

Like Orbert said, it's my relationship to Star Trek. it's not just some new show. I've been a trek fan for as long as I can remember. So it's hard to simply walk away, you know?

[El Barto]

Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.

Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.

Like Orbert said, it's my relationship to Star Trek. it's not just some new show. I've been a trek fan for as long as I can remember. So it's hard to simply walk away, you know?

That's pretty understandable. At the same time, I have no relationship with whatever Discovery is. I'll watch the JJVerse movies because of that relationship. I'll watch Picard because of that relationship. I'll watch SNW because of it. STD might as well be a Yugoslavian sitcom for all it means to me.

[Adami]

Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.

Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.

Like Orbert said, it's my relationship to Star Trek. it's not just some new show. I've been a trek fan for as long as I can remember. So it's hard to simply walk away, you know?

That's pretty understandable. At the same time, I have no relationship with whatever Discovery is. I'll watch the JJVerse movies because of that relationship. I'll watch Picard because of that relationship. I'll watch SNW because of it. STD might as well be a Yugoslavian sitcom for all it means to me.

I actually don't really feel any connection to the JJ movies, oddly enough. Into Darkness is the only ST movie I haven't seen for more than 20 minutes and I am okay with that.

With Discovery, I think it's because I started watching it after there were already two seasons. So I watched those two pretty quickly and I mostly enjoyed the second season. And parts of other seasons have had good elements, so I think that's what brings me back. They keep tricking me into thinking it'll be good but then they just....don't.

Picard is Picard. He's always been my favorite of the captains and TNG was always my favorite Star Trek, which eventually was tied with DS9. So I have a strong connection to that character, enough to keep watching this show. But this episode really pushed my patience. I was watching the RLM review of the last 2 Picard episodes (that is episodes 2 and 3) and they hit a really good point. Star Trek always dealt with moral conundrums. For specific ideas, they usually did allegory, and they always had a conversation about it. They discussed the conundrum and presented different sides and really helped you understand the problem from a human perspective before showing their ideal version of the right choice. It wasn't always perfect, but that was the general way about things. Meanwhile modern Trek just points at things and says "THIS IS BAD!" and that's about it. There's no allegory anymore either. ICE is literally just ICE, the environment is earth environment, healthcare is healthcare. They're not having conversations or looking anything. They're just pointing out what is bad and being righteously angry at it. It's cheap, and a real shame.

I'm glad Discovery is over, so I can take a while and not think about whether or not I'll keep watching. I really do have to give some thought to Picard though.

[hefdaddy42]

I watched the new episode of Picard.

Do you know what the best thing about seeing 25th century people back in time during the 21st century?


It's a trick question.  There are no good things about it.

[soupytwist]

The moral choices that plagued TNG were generally because the show set itself up with a ridiculous set of rules called the prime directives, which basically provided the ever popular theme of do we follow these stupid rules or not.  As for the discussion, it was often just simple character traits rather than actually intelligent conversation - Worf wanted the aggressive option, Crusher the compassionate option, Geordi would come up with some techobabble.....which Ryker would turn into a simple analogy (...like letting the air outta a balloon).
Sure you'd get the odd good moral episode like Measure of a Man (which ironically Picard season 1 continued the theme)...but most of the moral choices were forced because of the stupid rules of the prime directives (do we let Wesley die for falling on some flowers, or break the prime directive and not let a kid die because this planet has insane rules!!....).

[Adami]

Can't say I see it that way, but it's all good. Luckily we each have Star Trek stuff that works for us.

[DoctorAction]

I watched the new episode of Picard.

Do you know what the best thing about seeing 25th century people back in time during the 21st century?

It's a trick question.  There are no good things about it.

 

[soupytwist]

Can't say I see it that way, but it's all good. Luckily we each have Star Trek stuff that works for us.

One of the more interesting aspect of Picard season 1 for me was the idea that Star Fleet/Federation isn't all good and Picard starting to doubt it - sadly this thread has been dropped.
Certainly on recent rewatches of TNG I often see an arrogant side, I'm sure a lot of it is poor writing and falling back on the same tropes (evil admirals) rather than it being intended,  but as I said a lot of the moral episodes of the show are binary - do the sensible thing or follow these set of rules (the prime directives).

[soupytwist]

Episode 4 of Picard was real rough, certainly the weakest of the season and probably the worse of the show.  The Raffi, Seven and Rios story just feels like dumb (TM Adami) padding.

Also really, really random 'Q' turning up for a minute of screen time....and I don't mean 'Q' John De Lancie.  I mean 'Q' from Impractical Jokers - is that supposed to mean anything?

[DoctorAction]

I was watching a Daredevil ep the other day and the DA was played by a really great, familiar woman who I eventually realised was the Raffi actress.

These great actors are really being let down by this shitty Trek. As well as us, of course.

It's a bit surprising to me, as there is seemingly so much talent out there in TV right now. Maybe it's just all just spread too thin. Maybe Marvel are employing literally EVERYONE in TV and film production and the other studios are picking up what's left.

[soupytwist]

I had a look at who wrote the last episode, someone with barely any writing credits to their name - 2 episodes of Superman & Lois being the biggest thing.   I don't get why on a show where the story in continuous you need to keep bringing in new writers all the time.  The showrunner plus a couple of writers who share the vision is enough, there is only 10 episodes per season here!!!

[Polarbear]

I have to say that I rather enjoyed the first episode of Picard S2, but it has been downhill from there. I gave up on season 1 after 4 episodes. I love the character of Picard, but this show does not do him justice. At least John DeLancie got to play Q one more time. He is great as always.

Give the showrunners of The Expanse a shot at Star Trek! I bet they would do a great job. Oh Well, at least I have one more season of The Expanse to watch. That show is amazing!

[JayOctavarium]

Holy shit. Not going to spoil it but the opening scene in the latest Picard episode... I fucking loved it, even if it is kind of a cheesy callback.

[Orbert]

I had a look at who wrote the last episode, someone with barely any writing credits to their name - 2 episodes of Superman & Lois being the biggest thing.   I don't get why on a show where the story in continuous you need to keep bringing in new writers all the time.  The showrunner plus a couple of writers who share the vision is enough, there is only 10 episodes per season here!!!

This is it, the root of all evil, or at least bad television.  It doesn't mean shit if the writing isn't any good, and I can't see how the writing can be good if you go with a revolving door of writers.  Why isn't there a central core of those who insure consistency, between episodes, seasons and other Star Trek properties?  How can you bring in some rookie with barely any "pro" writing credits and have them write the latest episode of one of the franchise's flagship shows?  Picard is pretty much like Discovery or any of the other "new" Trek.  Looks nice, lots of amazing computer graphics, actors doing their damnedest, and stories that are just plain stupid.  That's the writing.  That's the showrunners failing to put together a decent show which, yes, includes good writing.

Star Trek isn't a franchise anymore; it's a brand, a product.  Put some shit together, slap the words "Star Trek" on it, sell it.  People will buy it.

[Adami]

Gonna do some weird stuff here.

1) Having lots of different writers has worked fine in the past. Just look at how many writers TNG had. Very very very very many. Many brought on for just a few episodes, many also just for one. A lot of these writers also had little credits to their name. While sometimes that resulted in very bad writing, it sometimes resulted in very good writing. It's just not enough to go on. The problem is with the showrunners whoa re in charge of ensuring quality. They have awful showrunners.

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

[soupytwist]

TNG was self contained episodes though, as long as the episode resolved itself they should be free to write anything (including rapey ghost candles  ) as long as everything was reset by the time the credits rolled.
If you are wanting to tell a story arc over 10 episodes I just don't get why you'd get writers in for one episode, the last episode of Picard wasn't just bad writing it was tonely different to the previous episodes!!!

[Adami]

TNG was self contained episodes though, as long as the episode resolved itself they should be free to write anything (including rapey ghost candles  ) as long as everything was reset by the time the credits rolled.
If you are wanting to tell a story arc over 10 episodes I just don't get why you'd get writers in for one episode, the last episode of Picard wasn't just bad writing it was tonely different to the previous episodes!!!

A very fair point!

And since it stops me from defending Picard, I will completely concede. 

[YtseJam]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

[chknptpie]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

I mean... I might.

[Adami]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.

[soupytwist]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.

Better or worse than Masks?

[Adami]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.

Better or worse than Masks?

I don’t remember hating Masks but it’s been a while. Got a few episodes before I get to it again but I’ll be sure to report back if it’s worse.

[chknptpie]

Hot take, one of my favorite episodes is Genesis. It's silly, self contained, and great lol

[gmillerdrake]

Finally watched latest episode of Picard. Oof…..I mean, this is comical now. I legit believe that I could sit down and write a better episode…..heck, season…..than what they’re doing now. I’ve watched countless hours of TV/Series/Movies and I 100% believe I could do better. Not trying to claim greatness or anything like that…..just have seen enough to know what is ‘good’ and what stinks. This show stinks.

[Adami]

Finally watched latest episode of Picard. Oof…..I mean, this is comical now. I legit believe that I could sit down and write a better episode…..heck, season…..than what they’re doing now. I’ve watched countless hours of TV/Series/Movies and I 100% believe I could do better. Not trying to claim greatness or anything like that…..just have seen enough to know what is ‘good’ and what stinks. This show stinks.

Well, I'm gonna put some stuff on your shoulders here. I'm officially giving up on Picard unless....UNLESS....you post here that the show got pretty good somehow. No pressure. 

[soupytwist]

Finally watched latest episode of Picard. Oof…..I mean, this is comical now. I legit believe that I could sit down and write a better episode…..heck, season…..than what they’re doing now. I’ve watched countless hours of TV/Series/Movies and I 100% believe I could do better. Not trying to claim greatness or anything like that…..just have seen enough to know what is ‘good’ and what stinks. This show stinks.

Boba Fett : I'm going to have to worst chase sequence on TV this year

Picard : Hold my Earl Grey..


That car chase section, where randomly Raffi and Seven start acting like they are in a buddy cop movie - maybe the worst 10 or so minutes of Star Trek since Lizard sex.   Firstly there was no tension because there was no point, no one was chasing, they were just driving fast - for reasons that became pointless become they could have just waited to be teleported (which is ultimately what happen anyway).  Then Seven can just get into a car and drive it really well....ok.  oh and let's not forget the shite banter,.......

Whole thing was a complete waste of time and sucked donkey balls.

Yeah I agree you, me or anyone on this thread could write something less shite.

I've defended this show, but that episode was so bad I can't find any positives - or the negatives were so bad they cloud anything that wasn't shite.

[Dream Team]

At least the Hispanic doctor is cute.

[gmillerdrake]

At least the Hispanic doctor is cute.

This is true.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I may forego the rest of Picard.  I don't have enough time to watch bad TV.

[Adami]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.

Better or worse than Masks?

Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.

[Orbert]

At least the Hispanic doctor is cute.

Well, shit.  I haven't seen the latest Picard yet, have only heard about how bad it was, and I was ready to cut my losses.

Oh wait... do you the doctor from the clinic that Rios is at?  Whew!  I've seen her.  Cute, but not enough to get me to watch a whole show just hoping for a glimpse.

[YtseJam]

2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!

Do not light that candle!

Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.

Better or worse than Masks?

Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.

It had Quint! and Misaka is waking.

[soupytwist]

Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.

Is Sub Rosa the worst Trek episode from the TNG - Enterprise era?  I really hated those Irish holodeck episodes on Voyager (and the Lizard Sex episode), and obviously 'Code of Honour' needs to be mentioned.  And as great as DS9 is it still had 'Profit and Lace'.

[Adami]

Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.

Is Sub Rosa the worst Trek episode from the TNG - Enterprise era?  I really hated those Irish holodeck episodes on Voyager (and the Lizard Sex episode), and obviously 'Code of Honour' needs to be mentioned.  And as great as DS9 is it still had 'Profit and Lace'.

It's a tough question since I'm just naturally horrible at ranking things. I tend to see how/why they're bad. As I've said, Sub Rosa is bad in a very different way than Masks is, which is bad in a very different way than any episode of Picard is. So it's hard for me to compare which is worse, since they're not really failing at the same things in the same way, other than poor quality.

I will get to Voyager on my rewatch eventually, but I remember it having plenty of pretty meh episodes.

[DoctorAction]

Just watched the SNW character teasers. Obvs, it looks amazing. Pike swaggering onto the bridge made me super happy but it's gonna need more than that.

I really want it to be good. Actually, just slightly above ok would be alright at this point.

Paramount+ isn't available in the UK until "summer" anyhoo. Bah.