Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[zepp-head]

I'd hunt down the VHS tapes, myself.   As I understand it, Lucas plans to adulterate the blueray releases even further.   I'm watching the original trilogy this weekend, and the additions are pretty annoying.  Among other things, he completely replaced Jaba's band with something much more campy and cartoonish for the kiddos.  It really changes the whole tone and feel of Jaba's lair, and therefore the rescue operation.   Making crappy movies doesn't seem to be enough for the man.  He's got to go back and crap up the old ones, too. 

While I'm not saying there won't be any changes (since every version has had some kind of change), the Lucasfilm team has said a few times now that the blu ray versions are lifts of the DVDs.  So if history repeats itself, yes, more changes.  But the only facts or here say so far tell another story.  Time will tell.  I'd personally like to see a few things done differently.

As far as the droids, he might remember R2, who knows.  Taken into a real world, modern day setting, that would essentially be like remembering a toaster from 20 years ago, even if it was painted a different color.   

[Vivace]

There are some pretty talented people out there and one of them already took the 77 version and  merged it with the 97 version but took out all the new scenes from 97 and just kept it as a carbon copy of the 77 version with the updated effects. It's what Lucas SHOULD have done and we have to get Joe Public to do this. Hopefully he does Empire and Jedi as well.

[blackngold29]

Lucas has made it pretty clear all along that everything he changes is getting closer to his original vision. He's not changing things just so people buy them again... and if you buy them again for the sole purpose of having an updated version you're just going to bitch about then don't bleeping buy it.

Not necessarily talking about people here, but people out there are dumb.

[Adami]

Honestly I think people put up way too much of a fuss over the changes. There's only 3 I can think of that actually bother me, and of those only 2 really bother me.


1. Han shooting first. I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

2. The new jabbas palace musical number.................oh god.

3. Hayden Christiansan or whatever being put into Jedi.


Just 1 and 2 reallllllly bother me, and 3 is meh. But I can't think of any other changes that truly ruin anything.

[El Barto]

A lot of the littler alterations change the entire tone of the scene, though.  My problem with the prequils is that it's obvious Lucas was trying to give it more juvenile appeal, and most of the changes to the originals are to that end.  Plenty of them are just quick laughs for the kiddos, but that really bugs me. 



I've finally gotten around to rewatching the entire series.  I'm most of the way through Sith now(and my God is it hard to sit through).  I think my biggest issue with the prequils is something that could actually be changed pretty easily.  Referring back to my point about it being directed towards children, the silly "personalities" all the droids have is the most annoying thing to me.  I suspect that if you went in and overdubbed all the "roger roger"s and "let's blast 'em"s with normal, non-personal dialog, all three of them would be improved immensely.  You can't remove [sigh] General Grievous, but you could certainly give him the 80's cylon voice and it'd be huge improvement (seriously, WTF with the coughing and wheezing!).  Jar Jar Binks could probably be overdubbed as well.  Obviously, we're stuck with the horrible Padme/Anakin love story, but if there weren't so many other terrible things going on, they wouldn't be quite so bad.

I've also noticed that whiny 9 year old Anakin is a thousand times less annoying than whiny 19 year old Anakin.  Lose the stupid fucking droids and Jar Jar, and it's probably the best of the three by far. 

[Super Dude]

Just buy the Original-SE DVD combo and stop bitching.

[CrimsonSunrise]

The Expanded Universe books suck for the most part, but there are a few gems here and there.

Hmmm....  I have to disagree for the most part.  While the expanded Uni books aren't top notch Sci-fi books in comparison to a lot of others, the stories are very good IMO.  Especially The New Jedi Order books.  I'd LOVE for them to adapt them in a made for TV series.  I think I've read about 110 or so of the Expanded Uni books....

[zepp-head]

Lucas has made it pretty clear all along that everything he changes is getting closer to his original vision. He's not changing things just so people buy them again... and if you buy them again for the sole purpose of having an updated version you're just going to bitch about then don't bleeping buy it.

Not necessarily talking about people here, but people out there are dumb.

Very true, a lot of people seem to forget that they have the option of not watching something.  But it's somehow more satisfying to spend a lot of time on something they hate so they can bitch about it later. 

Honestly I think people put up way too much of a fuss over the changes. There's only 3 I can think of that actually bother me, and of those only 2 really bother me.


1. Han shooting first. I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

2. The new jabbas palace musical number.................oh god.

3. Hayden Christiansan or whatever being put into Jedi.


Just 1 and 2 reallllllly bother me, and 3 is meh. But I can't think of any other changes that truly ruin anything.

Hard to argue with that.  Number 3 actually makes more sense to me, but I don't like it as much as I did when I first saw it.

[Super Dude]

The Expanded Universe books suck for the most part, but there are a few gems here and there.

Hmmm....  I have to disagree for the most part.  While the expanded Uni books aren't top notch Sci-fi books in comparison to a lot of others, the stories are very good IMO.  Especially The New Jedi Order books.  I'd LOVE for them to adapt them in a made for TV series.  I think I've read about 110 or so of the Expanded Uni books....

I mean I'm sure that's true and I've been spoiled by Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, H.G. Wells and the like, but why accept anything less?  If anything, shouldn't Star Wars writers try to live up to a higher standard?

[CrimsonSunrise]

I mean I'm sure that's true and I've been spoiled by Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, H.G. Wells and the like, but why accept anything less?  If anything, shouldn't Star Wars writers try to live up to a higher standard?

I'm with you there.  That's why I mention it.  I grew up reading Assimov and Herbert.  I categorize Sci-Fi Books into 2 groups.  One, that are just fun.  SW's falls into that category for me  they're just fun too read.  The other category is reserved for books that really push the boundaries either technically or imaginatively, series like Dune, Foundation, and the Robot series.  Newer books by Hamilton, Vinge, Simmons, and a few others, I can't get enough of!

I feel the same way about the movies.  For me... they're just fun.  Do they make sense technically??  Not a chance.  Are they well acted??   .  Are the stories fun?  Sure.  Over the years chatting with SW folks I always laugh when they mention the acting (or lack there of) in the prequels, but fail to mention the horrendous, and even WORSE acting in the Sequels.

I stood in line in '77 for SW's in the theaters, and saw the rest when released in the theaters.  Enjoyment is subjective to what the viewer is looking for in a movie yes?  That being said, A New Hope had by far the biggest impact for me.  The only movie to ever have a bigger impact was the Matrix.  I like ALL the movies...and all the books (some are better than others.... but I've never had one that I couldn't finish and get some enjoyment out of).

With regards to the prequels, I liked them all.  TPM was not my fav... because of the gungans.  TAOTC's I LOVED!!!!  Yes...I said it... it was AWESOME!!!!  I loved the story, the effects, and even the cheesy acting...  .  ROTS was hands down the best of the  ENTIRE series on the basis of complexity, emotion, and just edge of your seat excitement.

Bottom line, for me, is that the SW's universe is chock full of enjoyment.  Hell.... we can punch holes in ANY Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie we choose.  It's all about stretching the imagination, while ignoring cheesy acting or imperfect writing/directing.

[ZBomber]

Just want to say I LOVE STAR WARS


Because it's been a little while since I stated this fact.


I'm excited for the bluray release. I will definitely get it, but I'm not sure if I will wait for the prices to drop down first. The SE are the versions I originally saw when they were re-released in theaters when I was 7. I remember seeing commercials for them on Nickelodeon, and begged my parents to take me. Instantly fell in love and Star Wars was the biggest part of my childhood. While I wish that GL would release the unaltered original trilogy (instead of the subpar DVD release we have), I am happy that the SE is being released. Aside from the Greedo/Han thing, I don't think the changes are THAT bad. Certainly not as bad as the changes in the 2004 remakes. 

[Super Dude]

@ CS:

I mean sure, but my reasons for loving the movies have changed over time.  In recent years it's because of how it fits into history, because I've come to see the Empire as almost being this metaphor for America as people saw it following the revolutions of the Sixties, and the Rebel Alliance as a kinda populist army, however people might see it.  So that's why I love the Originals and not the Prequels; it kinda lost that feeling as a reflection of the times and national mood the Originals tried to capture.  Sure, one could argue the Prequels were relevant to their respective time, but I like the Originals because what they reflected about their time.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I can relate to that way of thinking with regards to Star Trek TOS.  I mean cmon, 60's... Klingons= Russians,  and Romulans = Red China.   

[zepp-head]

I mean I'm sure that's true and I've been spoiled by Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, H.G. Wells and the like, but why accept anything less?  If anything, shouldn't Star Wars writers try to live up to a higher standard?

I'm with you there.  That's why I mention it.  I grew up reading Assimov and Herbert.  I categorize Sci-Fi Books into 2 groups.  One, that are just fun.  SW's falls into that category for me  they're just fun too read.  The other category is reserved for books that really push the boundaries either technically or imaginatively, series like Dune, Foundation, and the Robot series.  Newer books by Hamilton, Vinge, Simmons, and a few others, I can't get enough of!

I feel the same way about the movies.  For me... they're just fun.  Do they make sense technically??  Not a chance.  Are they well acted??   .  Are the stories fun?  Sure.  Over the years chatting with SW folks I always laugh when they mention the acting (or lack there of) in the prequels, but fail to mention the horrendous, and even WORSE acting in the Sequels.

I stood in line in '77 for SW's in the theaters, and saw the rest when released in the theaters.  Enjoyment is subjective to what the viewer is looking for in a movie yes?  That being said, A New Hope had by far the biggest impact for me.  The only movie to ever have a bigger impact was the Matrix.  I like ALL the movies...and all the books (some are better than others.... but I've never had one that I couldn't finish and get some enjoyment out of).

With regards to the prequels, I liked them all.  TPM was not my fav... because of the gungans.  TAOTC's I LOVED!!!!  Yes...I said it... it was AWESOME!!!!  I loved the story, the effects, and even the cheesy acting...  .  ROTS was hands down the best of the  ENTIRE series on the basis of complexity, emotion, and just edge of your seat excitement.

Bottom line, for me, is that the SW's universe is chock full of enjoyment.  Hell.... we can punch holes in ANY Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie we choose.  It's all about stretching the imagination, while ignoring cheesy acting or imperfect writing/directing.

Thank you for saying this, seriously.

[Vivace]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

[Super Dude]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

This.  It's like that Red Letter Media guy said about Originals characters vs. Prequels characters: you can say a lot about the former and about who they are as characters, and not an awful lot about the latter except their function in the narrative.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

Like I mentioned... we all have different tastes.  I think the story lines in the prequels were actually better.  What if the prequels had come out first???  What would you think of the sequels story lines?  For example, while TPM is not my Fav, it does a decent job of really explaining the political landscape, as do the other 2 that followed.  Now... when I go back and watch the Sequels, they really seem lacking in comparison.  Bare bones...and good fun.  The impact then, was the special effects.... in New Hope there was NOTHING like it at the time.  When the prequels came out...they didn't have that same wow factor Special Effects wise.... so I think folks look at the meat of the material more.

[orcus116]

The Expanded Universe books suck for the most part, but there are a few gems here and there.

Hmmm....  I have to disagree for the most part.  While the expanded Uni books aren't top notch Sci-fi books in comparison to a lot of others, the stories are very good IMO.  Especially The New Jedi Order books.  I'd LOVE for them to adapt them in a made for TV series.  I think I've read about 110 or so of the Expanded Uni books....

Is that the series with the alien invasion from another galaxy and a moon falling on Chewie?

[Super Dude]

It is.  I read the final installment in that series.  It was *okay*...

[orcus116]

I'll take your word for it. My friend is huge into the EU and explained the whole concept which sounded kinda hokey. I understand they needed a new adversary but the way they went about it seems very extreme and juvenile.

[CrimsonSunrise]

The Expanded Universe books suck for the most part, but there are a few gems here and there.

Hmmm....  I have to disagree for the most part.  While the expanded Uni books aren't top notch Sci-fi books in comparison to a lot of others, the stories are very good IMO.  Especially The New Jedi Order books.  I'd LOVE for them to adapt them in a made for TV series.  I think I've read about 110 or so of the Expanded Uni books....

Is that the series with the alien invasion from another galaxy and a moon falling on Chewie?

That's the one.... I think 17 books in all.  The Yuuzhan Vong.... real nasty charachters.

[Super Dude]

I did find the concept of the Yuuzhan Vong interesting.  And the "final" baddie was pretty cool.

[ReaPsTA]

[post]

I've never agreed with your point, no matter who's made it and in what variations.

If you want to talk about legitimately great movies, Star Wars Episode IV and The Godfather both have to be in the conversation if the discussion is among sane people.  And by that I don't mean Star Wars is a great fun/popcorn movie and The Godfather is a great serious/legitimate movie.  I mean they're both great movies, period.

What you're saying is one of the sneakiest arguments in favor of the prequels that doesn't actually make any sense if you think about it.  No one takes the prequels seriously, so then if you say the original trilogy shouldn't be taken seriously either, then it's okay to hold both in the same regard.

Obviously it's all subjective.  If none of what are widely agreed to be the flaws of the prequels are flaws to you, then great, awesome, enjoy.  If none of what are widely agreed to be the strengths of the original trilogy are strengths to you, then that's also fine.

But there's no way you can say the OT and prequels are quantitatively comparable in any meaningful way.  They're vastly different movies, which is why most people see them so differently.

[Super Dude]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

I know it's only remotely related, but the latest trailer for Star Wars: TOR illuminates these points beautifully (or not, considering what the point is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3EywHA-8w

Sure it gets your blood running and your heart pumping, but if you ask me, this is NOT Star Wars.

[CrimsonSunrise]

If you want to talk about legitimately great movies, Star Wars Episode IV and The Godfather both have to be in the conversation if the discussion is among sane people.  And by that I don't mean Star Wars is a great fun/popcorn movie and The Godfather is a great serious/legitimate movie.  I mean they're both great movies, period.

Like I said, to ME... the draw and biggest impact of A New Hope, were the special effects.  Was the story good??  Sure.  Was the acting good?  I don't think so.  Was the writing good?  OK...not great.  I agree that they are both great movies, but I think the 2 are different types of movies, maybe not quite the same as your discription, but yeah.  I don't quite get the "Sane" comment.  Does that mean that if my opinion is not the same as the majority, I'm (or my opinion) is not sane?  I agree...they are both great movies, our reasons may differ though, but that's OK... 

[blackngold29]

Random Fact I love: George Lucas has never read a SW book.



Thrawn Trilogy is one of the few SW books I've read and they're great.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Random Fact I love: George Lucas has never read a SW book.



Thrawn Trilogy is one of the few SW books I've read and they're great.

I did not know that!  I'm pretty sure though, that all the stories go through Skywalker Ranch, and also that authors have to follow certain pre-set guidelines.

[Super Dude]

Like the Prequels all you wish, but no soul should dare suggest the lightsaber fights from the Originals be remade to more closely resemble the Prequels.  My brother just suggested, in all seriousness, that the lightsaber fights between Obi-Wan and Vader and Luke and Vader are boring...they need more flips and more action, he says.  AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Vivace]

If you want to talk about legitimately great movies, Star Wars Episode IV and The Godfather both have to be in the conversation if the discussion is among sane people.  And by that I don't mean Star Wars is a great fun/popcorn movie and The Godfather is a great serious/legitimate movie.  I mean they're both great movies, period.

Like I said, to ME... the draw and biggest impact of A New Hope, were the special effects.  Was the story good??  Sure.  Was the acting good?  I don't think so.  Was the writing good?  OK...not great.  I agree that they are both great movies, but I think the 2 are different types of movies, maybe not quite the same as your discription, but yeah.  I don't quite get the "Sane" comment.  Does that mean that if my opinion is not the same as the majority, I'm (or my opinion) is not sane?  I agree...they are both great movies, our reasons may differ though, but that's OK... 

Do yourself a favor and watch the Red Letter media and Confused Matthew reviews.

[Vivace]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

I know it's only remotely related, but the latest trailer for Star Wars: TOR illuminates these points beautifully (or not, considering what the point is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3EywHA-8w

Sure it gets your blood running and your heart pumping, but if you ask me, this is NOT Star Wars.

I really hate to say it and now I'm going to sound like a bitching nanny, but again, I don't see anything in this clip that isn't already a problem from the prequels. A bunch of jedis and sith dancing around and saberfighting is great. Without conflict and emotion and an understanding that these are real people turns the scene into a vacuous fight scene. Compare it the Neo vs Agent Smith scene in The Matrix which is MUCH better and more emotionally charged. This looks great and is fun the watch, but I got bored and disconnected. This was the biggest issue with the prequels. Actually a MUCH better comparison is the fight in Empire between Luke and Vadar. Sometimes less is more.

[Super Dude]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

I know it's only remotely related, but the latest trailer for Star Wars: TOR illuminates these points beautifully (or not, considering what the point is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3EywHA-8w

Sure it gets your blood running and your heart pumping, but if you ask me, this is NOT Star Wars.

I really hate to say it and now I'm going to sound like a bitching nanny, but again, I don't see anything in this clip that isn't already a problem from the prequels. A bunch of jedis and sith dancing around and saberfighting is great. Without conflict and emotion and an understanding that these are real people turns the scene into a vacuous fight scene. Compare it the Neo vs Agent Smith scene in The Matrix which is MUCH better and more emotionally charged. This looks great and is fun the watch, but I got bored and disconnected. This was the biggest issue with the prequels. Actually a MUCH better comparison is the fight in Empire between Luke and Vadar. Sometimes less is more.

That's more or less what I was saying in the post you quoted.

[Vivace]

Most people I think don't see just how horrendous the lines are in A New Hope. They are downright awful. But you why no one noticed them? Because the "story" was stronger than diamonds. The character's were memorable and human. It was one hell of a ride and I hated when it was over. The Prequels have awful writing, no story, no pace, no characters, no life, no nothing. It was like watching a robot play tennis with itself. It all looked perfect and there were some wicked moves here and there, but it was a lifeless drone, a black hole that sucked all the life leaving a vacuous space of polished nothing. Lucas's updates to the OT threw some of this lifeless in there which was one thing I just want to disappear. The whole Jabba scene was pointless in A New Hope. There is nothing to watch there. It's a waste of time. Compare that with Luke's line, "What a piece of junk!". Night and day. If you are going to change up a movie, make sure you don't suck the life out of the movie. This is the BIGGEST issue with today's remakes. They don't have the character and life the older version had.

I know it's only remotely related, but the latest trailer for Star Wars: TOR illuminates these points beautifully (or not, considering what the point is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3EywHA-8w

Sure it gets your blood running and your heart pumping, but if you ask me, this is NOT Star Wars.

I really hate to say it and now I'm going to sound like a bitching nanny, but again, I don't see anything in this clip that isn't already a problem from the prequels. A bunch of jedis and sith dancing around and saberfighting is great. Without conflict and emotion and an understanding that these are real people turns the scene into a vacuous fight scene. Compare it the Neo vs Agent Smith scene in The Matrix which is MUCH better and more emotionally charged. This looks great and is fun the watch, but I got bored and disconnected. This was the biggest issue with the prequels. Actually a MUCH better comparison is the fight in Empire between Luke and Vadar. Sometimes less is more.

That's more or less what I was saying in the post you quoted.

Oh yeah. 

[Super Dude]

And another thing I just thought of: as sci-fi/fantasy goes, the Originals feel so much more real and way more believable than the Prequels.  You take a typical planet introduced in the Prequels, say Coruscant, and it looks nice and the future looks really great and all, but given the reality of the human experience you know on a pretty basic level that it is just fantasy.

So there's a typical Prequel planet:



(I think this image is actually taken from concept art)

Now let's take Tatooine from the Original trilogy:



Now that looks like a real-world setting.  Hell, there probably are places on Earth already that look an awful lot like that (twin suns notwithstanding ).  This looks like a world you can imagine putting yourself into.  I can't say the same for Naboo or Kamino.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I really hate to say it and now I'm going to sound like a bitching nanny, but again, I don't see anything in this clip that isn't already a problem from the prequels. A bunch of jedis and sith dancing around and saberfighting is great. Without conflict and emotion and an understanding that these are real people turns the scene into a vacuous fight scene. Compare it the Neo vs Agent Smith scene in The Matrix which is MUCH better and more emotionally charged. This looks great and is fun the watch, but I got bored and disconnected. This was the biggest issue with the prequels. Actually a MUCH better comparison is the fight in Empire between Luke and Vadar. Sometimes less is more.

Sooo...there's no emotion?... no conflict?  In the duels between Anakin and Obi-Wan?  Or Palpatine and Yoda?  I agree that sometimes less is more, but these duels are well built up too.

[Super Dude]

I really hate to say it and now I'm going to sound like a bitching nanny, but again, I don't see anything in this clip that isn't already a problem from the prequels. A bunch of jedis and sith dancing around and saberfighting is great. Without conflict and emotion and an understanding that these are real people turns the scene into a vacuous fight scene. Compare it the Neo vs Agent Smith scene in The Matrix which is MUCH better and more emotionally charged. This looks great and is fun the watch, but I got bored and disconnected. This was the biggest issue with the prequels. Actually a MUCH better comparison is the fight in Empire between Luke and Vadar. Sometimes less is more.

Sooo...there's no emotion?... no conflict?  In the duels between Anakin and Obi-Wan?  Or Palpatine and Yoda?  I agree that sometimes less is more, but these duels are well built up too.

In the former some, in the latter...not so much.