Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Cruithne]

I agree this is a tad boring.. any metal label would have signed Tate and formed a band around him during the 80s once he was found.

No metal label would've signed Tate because Tate didn't want to be a metal singer.

He became a metal singer because QR were a metal band, wanted him, knew how well his voice suited their music, got him to sing on their demo and got signed on the basis of that demo. At that point Tate had the option to stick with Myth and obscurity or compromise (knowing his tastes overlapped somewhat with members of QR) and hitch his wagon to QR and see how far it could go.

When QR achieved big monetary success was the point where the compromise Tate made to realise a singing career via music that wasn't entirely his thing became a problem.

[Dedalus]

It's curious to see this discussion about the success of Queensryche/Geoff Tate and to think that it never happened the same way in South America.
This explains why the band is not so often come to this battered part of the world:

Only once in Chile, twice in Argentina and four in Brazil (the first in Rock in Rio 91 and the last unforgettable  ). And Geoff Tate's Queensrÿche once in Brazil.

Just for comparison, Dream Theater: Argentina (7); Brazil (8); Chile (7). Plus Colombia (3); Peru (1); Venezuela (3).

I was 16 years old when I finally learned of the QR's existence. A few years later I managed to listen to OM. Only in the digital age was I able to listen to the other records! I just didn't know anyone who owned the records (or listened to the band) and they weren't within my reach.

Around here, it's always been a niche band. It doesn't even come close to Iron Maiden, Ozzy, Judas Priest, etc. I'm pretty sure bands like Helloween and Blind Guardian are more popular (so much so that they came more often).

[TAC]

To my pal EPICVIEW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Qp4d1T5jg

[NoseofNicko]

That performance of Take Hold of the Flame sounds almost exactly like the studio version, amazing.

[devieira73]

Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!!

[ytserush]

There was a music video for that? I had no idea.

Neither did I, but I'd stopped playing close attention by that point.

[ytserush]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I feel like QR was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with occasional forays into Pink Floyd psychedelica. Disconnected is a perfect example of that, and it doesn’t even feel like QR to me unless we have those really strange, off-kilter moments.

I think it's a brilliant song but it's my favorite Queensryche album ever which I think says quite a bit.

[ytserush]

Yes, but...they were definitely feeling their way forward in a different direction, with a brand new writing partner, and their primary writer being gone.  Samsara has said this numerous times on his prior site, and I tend to agree:  It would have been really interesting to hear where they went next had things not blown up with Kelly, and had he stayed in the band.  With an entire album and tour under their belt, they would have gelled more as a writing/performing team, and it is entirely plausible (and likely, IMO) that their next album would have felt a lot more cohesive and felt more "Queensryche" than Q2K.

There are many things at play during the HITNF/Q2k years. Regarding HITNF, no one aside from Chris wanted to make a record, yet the label was pushing them (Chris) to do so. If you read between the lines of what was said at the time (that they wanted to try a more spontaneous, less rehearsed direction), in retrospect, you can see that. Chris gets credited with the direction of HITNF, and I agree with that. But if you take a close look at Empire, Promised Land, and HITNF, you'll see that musically, it was Chris pretty much musically dictating the direction. The band became less metal after Mindcrime, as Chris explored melody and other sides of rock, and Tate preferred not to be pigeonholed as a "metal" singer. Chris adapted to Tate's needs, his own needs, and helped bring the band together on the various projects. I've said it repeatedly - like it or not, Queensryche had a sonic evolutionary path that I personally believe Chris was very much aware of, and even when he returned from Tribe, he tried to expand on it.

Anyway, so Chris gets everyone on board with HITNF and the sparser direction, writes a record that honestly fits perfectly with the times, its first single is pretty darn big, it's second single starts to take off...then the label folds. There goes all the push at radio, all the tour support, everything. The band finances their own tour, QPrime dumps them, and QR is at ground zero. Talk about repeated haymakers. To add insult to injury, some fans turned on QR for HITNF because they didn't like the direction, which Chris steered, in my opinion, based on what he saw with Soundgarden (see here - https://anybodylistening.net/downontherycheside.html) and Alice in Chains. Queensryche sort of...ran its course to an extent, with the band's personal lives very different and all the interpersonal stuff surrounding them all.

So in comes Kelly Gray. Tate's buddy. Former Myth guitarist. Will never tell Tate "no." Gray and Wilton connect a bit, although both are very different. They come up with Right Side of My Mind. Vibes start happening. But then Gray steps into DeGarmo's shoes. He writes the best record he can at the time (he thought it was a "good" album with a healing element on it). It doesn't sound like Queensyrche's sonic evolutionary path (duh), and the style differs completely (double duh, given that your main writer and arranger is now a guy who is light years different as a player, very influenced by different guys, and is a different writer than DeGarmo).

Again, in retrospect, looking back 22 years, what did we really expect? I was pretty naive at the time about everything. All I knew was, my favorite band did a new record and was still playing and I was into it. Now...I see a reinvention. I see a band getting comfortable just being who they are on Q2k. To me, that record may not have been a sales success, but it was certainly a success in helping four guys move forward. And that's in large part in thanks to Kelly. It's not really "Queensryche" to me NOW, but it was then. And there were some gems on that record. Right Side of My Mind (Gray, Tate, Wilton) and Liquid Sky (Gray, Rockenfield, Tate) were very much "fan favorites" and a bunch of folks dug the ballad "When the Rain Comes" which musically was written by Wilton (myself included). The material was strong enough to succeed. But what happened again? Atlantic didn't support them (they should have known that), the industry changed, and pretty much what happened with HITNF happened with Q2k.

Had the fans embraced Kelly, and Kelly been able to control himself on the road (read the liner notes from Tate on the Q2k expanded edition from 2006), Kelly would have likely continued on. Seeing him get to know the guys, what works and what doesn't, would have led to a better record overall. Would people have "liked" it? Would it sound more "Queensryche" (how is that defined -- the DeGarmo era, the late 80s/early 90s?) You never know. But take the name "Queensryche" off the record, and I know I personally really like about 2/3 of Q2k. My guess is, I would have at least LIKED a follow-up with Kelly Gray.

When DeGarmo came back for Tribe, the band had floundered, Chris came in after hearing about Tate's lyrical theme, had some ideas the band really liked, and really liked some of his suggested additions to other songs they had already written, etc.) Those songs, Desert Dance, Open, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, The Art of Life (and Justified) -- do you all like them? Because that's honestly "Queensryche" again, with all five guys a part of it in some way, shape or form. That's the sonic evolution of DeGarmo-Tate continuing. Chris left in the middle of the sessions, because of various reasons, which aren't important for this post. But that handful of songs is generally that continued evolution of "Queensryche"

I think the problem is, people consider "Queensryche" or the "Queensryche sound" to be defined by albums and time. Specifically, I think people define the band by the EP-Empire. For me, while looking back at it all, I think what is "Queensryche" is more defined by the musical relationship of DeGarmo, Tate, and Wilton. How that changed over the years. The funny thing is, if you consider "Eyes of a Stranger" to be a definitive QR song, and I think most people do, that's a DeGarmo/Tate track. The evolution and defining of what Queensryche was, songwise, is in my opinion, that relationship, and where they took their partnership as writers. Not the albums that defined them, but their path as writers (along with Wilton to a degree, although he was less involved over time, for whatever reason).

Coming back to Q2k, it's a solid hard rock record that had a lot of potential to be more successful than it was. And if the situation was different, I think a second record with him would have continued the same sonic path as Q2k, but with some other keyboard elements added. Whether people would have "liked" that, is anyone's guess.

B

Thanks for this.

Makes even more sense given what you said that I would eventually come around on Hear In The Now Frontier. Can't say I listen to Q2K a lot but it might be worth a revisit.

[Samsara]

I feel like QR was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with occasional forays into Pink Floyd psychedelica. Disconnected is a perfect example of that, and it doesn’t even feel like QR to me unless we have those really strange, off-kilter moments.

Great post. I agree that "Dis-con-nec-ted" is one of those necessary, "Queensryche" moments that pushes the band's envelope. You can find them on most of their records - "NM 156", ""Neue Regel", "Suite Sister Mary", "Della Brown", "Dis-con-nec-ted", "All I Want" come to mind immediately for me as examples of that. All tunes that sort of took the band a different direction and pushed the "box" Tate often talked about further open.

I'd disagree, however, on the statement that the band was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with forays into Floyd-like psychedelia. In all the research I've done over the years, and we've done (my co-writers and I) for the biography over the past two years, my opinion would be that the guys didn't think that far ahead when they were in their initial stage of getting together. They wanted to be a band, get signed, and make a living off playing music. Some of them took it more seriously than others, but back when they were in their teens and early 20s, it wasn't about making a definitive statement about what music their band played. They were simply a rock band, who had influences from hard rock, what was being described as metal back then, and prog/art rock when Tate joined up.

Where I think it got more defined was once they got signed, and had to really develop chemistry with Tate (since he was the outsider), was how to successfully satisfy the creative needs of him, DeGarmo, and Wilton, without losing the interest of Rockenfield and Jackson. And they were really successful at balancing that...for a long time. And that nexus point was, as Tate said God knows how many time in 2012/2013, an "understanding" among the band that there should be (forgive me folks) "NO LIMITS" on where they go creatively. As they got older, tastes shifted, some guys evolved as writers, some didn't. Tate was never a metalhead. He was a prog rock guy. All the other dudes in the band were metalheads...except Chris had a (in my opinion) wider ear for melody and was more adaptable. And that helped him and Tate really develop a chemistry (and to a lesser extent, Michael, although they shifted away from his strengths as a writer toward the original band's end). together.

It was, at least as far as I can tell, a very natural evolution of their songwriting as tastes and needs changed between Tate and DeGarmo. And as you said above, jammindude, they always had that one off-kilter track that really pushed things on each record, to see how far they could go at that point in time.

[jammindude]

Well that would back up my original theory from way way way far back that QR was a essential blend of the 3 M’s.

DeGarmo was the Melody
Wilton was the Metal
Tate was the Madness

[EPICVIEW]

To my pal EPICVIEW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Qp4d1T5jg

Sums it up my bro,,,,, thats reality of what QR is ,,,period.  They road Tates gift,,  BULLSEYE

[EPICVIEW]

I love this stuff   for my bro TAC  love how they have no idea on QR at all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-UfzfZYEk

[TAC]

The guy was amazing!

[Ben_Jamin]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

[Ben_Jamin]

I love this stuff   fror my bro TAC  love how they have no idea on QR at all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-UfzfZYEk

The reason why I enjoy these type of reaction videos, is because they are cultural breaking videos.

It's been a taboo for black people to listen to metal, or anything besides Hip-Hop, Jazz, Reggae, Funk, Soul, or Blues. And not be shunned, by their own people, for listening to this type of music, forget about liking country. This is breaking that barrier by showing just how much black people really enjoy metal, not only for those that are unaware of this Taboo, but also mainly for their own people to show that's it's okay to like different types of music, that extend beyond stereotypes.

[TAC]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

Wow..that was amazing!

I saw the Tribe Of Gypsies. Well, 3/5ths of them when Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith were in the band.

[Samsara]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.

[Ben_Jamin]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.

Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.

He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.

[DoctorAction]

Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!!

 

[EPICVIEW]

Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!!

 

 

[bosk1]

Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely.  It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime.  Good stuff! 

[Ben_Jamin]

Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely.  It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime.  Good stuff! 

Good thing I do not care about him personally. I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime. I do not expect him to have that same type of vocals either.

What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".

Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now. But, they focused on those high ends, more so than the warm tone. And that warm tone, is what a lot of people also like about Geoff Tate's vocals.

I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".

[EPICVIEW]

Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely.  It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime.  Good stuff! 

Good thing I do not care about him personally. I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime. I do not expect him to have that same type of vocals either.

What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".

Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now. But, they focused on those high ends, more so than the warm tone. And that warm tone, is what a lot of people also like about Geoff Tate's vocals.

I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".

Hui Ben   I agree  I think he did IWR on his last tour

[bosk1]

I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime.

I disagree with the bolded, but that's fine.  More power to you if you enjoy it. 

As far as not being the same as he was in his prime, you are right.  But that is also self-explanatory, and nobody should expect that.  The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s.  He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time.  But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre.  But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule. 

What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".

I can totally respect that.  And, yes, his tone and timber on the stuff in that range are amazing (although it always baffled me how awful he always sounded on Open in a live setting, given that the range is really pretty easy). 

Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now.

That's totally fair.  I think Todd sounds pretty good in the lower part of his register on songs like that, and that he more than does the songs justice.  But you are right that his voice still doesn't have the warmth and depth of Tate's. 

I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".

Interesting.  I can't decide whether or not I think that would be cool.  That song calls for a softer touch, and I'm not sure whether Todd can sing well in that range without belting.  It could either be great or sound really off.  I'm sure that if it isn't natural for him, he could put in the work to get it to where it sounds good.  But the problem is that if it isn't natural for his voice and range, a song that is soft AND high like that can be really taxing on a singer as part of a live set. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".

Interesting.  I can't decide whether or not I think that would be cool.  That song calls for a softer touch, and I'm not sure whether Todd can sing well in that range without belting.  It could either be great or sound really off.  I'm sure that if it isn't natural for him, he could put in the work to get it to where it sounds good.  But the problem is that if it isn't natural for his voice and range, a song that is soft AND high like that can be really taxing on a singer as part of a live set.

Yeah, this is the one song where that difference of both singers will show immensely. I think Todd could do it. It wouldn't be Tate, but I would still enjoy hearing it if they played it live.

This song is also why I am going to see Geoff Tate this October.

[Setzer]

The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s.  He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time.  But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre.  But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.

Glenn Hughes

[WilliamMunny]

The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s.  He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time.  But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre.  But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.

Glenn Hughes

Kip Winger came to mind as well...that man has a damn near ageless voice.

[TAC]

As far as not being the same as he was in his prime, you are right.  But that is also self-explanatory, and nobody should expect that.  The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s.  He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time.  But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre.  But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule. 

Michael Kiske. He was right there with Tate in the 80's and while his voice doesn't have the miles on it that Tate has, he sounds amazing today. He is 9 years younger than Tate.

Tate was 24 when he recorded Warning, and Kiske was 18 when he recorded the first Keepers album.

[bosk1]

Yeah, Kiske is a good example of keeping most of his range and having his voice improve.  To me, he sounded thin and shrill in those early days (from what I heard).  But his voice sounds warmer and fuller now.

[Lowdz]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.

Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.

He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.

great version. what a voice. I really liked Tribe of Gypsies.

[Ben_Jamin]

I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.

This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.

I Will Remember

Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.

Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.

He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.

great version. what a voice. I really liked Tribe of Gypsies.

Yeah. He was well known here, among the same level as Randy Castillo, at least in the metal community. It was a sad day when he got into that motorcycle accident.

It was after he did Rumble with George Lynch. It's a great documentary I highly recommend.

[EPICVIEW]

Tate was THE BEST    its the package of him,  his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period.   these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.    comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have,  Tate is the best for so many reasons,  why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period  MY OPINION

[Setzer]

Yeah, Kiske is a good example of keeping most of his range and having his voice improve.  To me, he sounded thin and shrill in those early days (from what I heard).  But his voice sounds warmer and fuller now.

That might be because Kiske uses falsetto for the high notes.

[King Postwhore]

Tate was THE BEST    its the package of him,  his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period.   these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.    comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have,  Tate is the best for so many reasons,  why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period  MY OPINION

Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band.  The same goes for Perry and DeYoung.  All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.   

[EPICVIEW]

Tate was THE BEST    its the package of him,  his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period.   these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.    comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have,  Tate is the best for so many reasons,  why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period  MY OPINION

Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band.  The same goes for Perry and DeYoung.  All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.
[/quote


It was the bands actions also   I dont understand why they got a pass at all ...