Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[EPICVIEW]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I miss it    

[EPICVIEW]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

actually isnt that last show or so and or the one they had the big fight at? to me that show is not typical and credit to  all of them for pulling it together to do that performance under duress.  oddly I liked Scotts drumming there

[cfmoran13]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead.  I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead.  Interesting.

There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI.  I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate,  18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA.  I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now.  Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.

I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying.  It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again.  I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.

[WilliamMunny]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead.  I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead.  Interesting.

There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI.  I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate,  18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA.  I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now.  Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.

I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying.  It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again.  I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.

This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'

While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.

Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

[KevShmev]

This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'

While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.

Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

Amen to this. In a recent conversation I had, I was told that a particular singer was overrated because this person doesn't have great range, and I was nicely like, "Okay, and?"  Leaving aside that the word "overrated" can be infuriating (who makes these ratings anyway? ), there is a lot more to being a great singer than having great range or being able to hit every note. Sure, having those things can give you a major advantage, but there are still many subtleties to singing that have little do with either that can go a long way in determining if someone is a good singer or not (to me). 

[cfmoran13]

Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

So, does that mean he's been phoning it in for the past 15 years or so?  He certainly did in his last years with QR.  I know there are people who like Tribe.  But, personally, I was completely done with them after Q2K up until Todd joined.  I couldn't give one shit about any of those last 4 studio albums (5 including the covers album).  And, when I'd heard the songs off Dedicated To Chaos, I didn't think I'd ever buy anything from the band again.  I'll admit I don't know the words to a lot of the songs off of the Todd albums (or much new music I buy these days).  But, I definitely enjoy it a lot more than the later Tater years. 

There are also people who say range isn't everything.  And, this is true.  But, Geoff came off like an ass in his later years in the band.  He became totally dismissive of heavy music, going so far as to say he hated metal music.  I'm sorry but those first few albums are metal.  I don't know whether it was his diminished range or his disdain for heavy music.  But, I feel the setlists towards the end of his tenure suffered because of at least one of those attributes.

[EPICVIEW]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead.  I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead.  Interesting.

There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI.  I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate,  18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA.  I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now.  Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.

I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying.  It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again.  I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.

This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'

While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.

Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

I agree   Tates VOICE is pleasing   Todds is not  IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend,  Todd will never be that IMO,   Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live.  Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented

[Dittomist]

Yeah, as much as I miss Geoff Tate's enthusiasm, showmanship, and ability to make everyone in the crowd smile at Queensryche shows, I'm still so glad the band replaced him with Todd. I usually run with my iPod on Shuffle mode, and tonight I suffered through "I Believe" from Dedicated to Chaos and the very next song happened to be "Portrait" from the stellar Verdict album. I would like the diehard Tate defenders to put on a pair of headphones and listen to these 2 songs back to back and tell me that Queensryche was better off with Tate making all of the decisions.  It's such a rare thing for a veteran band to improve the quality of their music to this degree so suddenly (and there are a few songs on DTC that I actually like a lot). 

However, I must say that Geoff has been doing a fantastic job these past few years. He is sounding much better than he did in his last years with Queensryche, and his setlists include songs that fans have wanted to see performed live for decades. Seeing Queensryche look bored on stage performing "Empire" for the millionth time to small casino crowds is so depressing. But seeing a smiling Geoff Tate sing "Chasing Blue Sky" makes me feel warm and fuzzy. 

[WilliamMunny]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead.  I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead.  Interesting.

There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI.  I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate,  18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA.  I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now.  Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.

I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying.  It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again.  I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.

This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'

While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.

Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

I agree   Tates VOICE is pleasing   Todds is not  IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend,  Todd will never be that IMO,   Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live.  Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented

Wow...that's a hot take. I'll spare you the three-million youtube links I could post here, but let's call a spade a spade—no matter how much YOU love Tate, everyone has bad nights...everyone. Even Tater. Whether or not you've witnessed it is one thing (I can't argue your experiences), but the dude has objectively struggled and the visual evidence is everywhere.

That being said, I love Tate...love his voice, and just like JLB, I tend 'handicap' singers I love. An off note or three (hundred) is rarely going to ruin a concert for me.

[EPICVIEW]

Yeah, as much as I miss Geoff Tate's enthusiasm, showmanship, and ability to make everyone in the crowd smile at Queensryche shows, I'm still so glad the band replaced him with Todd. I usually run with my iPod on Shuffle mode, and tonight I suffered through "I Believe" from Dedicated to Chaos and the very next song happened to be "Portrait" from the stellar Verdict album. I would like the diehard Tate defenders to put on a pair of headphones and listen to these 2 songs back to back and tell me that Queensryche was better off with Tate making all of the decisions.  It's such a rare thing for a veteran band to improve the quality of their music to this degree so suddenly (and there are a few songs on DTC that I actually like a lot).

However, I must say that Geoff has been doing a fantastic job these past few years. He is sounding much better than he did in his last years with Queensryche, and his setlists include songs that fans have wanted to see performed live for decades. Seeing Queensryche look bored on stage performing "Empire" for the millionth time to small casino crowds is so depressing. But seeing a smiling Geoff Tate sing "Chasing Blue Sky" makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

I like this post 

[Lowdz]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

[EPICVIEW]

So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.

https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q

You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". 

I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.

That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. 

Ah, yes...  The tired stage banter.  The overdramatization.  The lip synching.  The inability to stay in tune.  Talk about cringe.  SO glad those days are over.

I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead.  I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead.  Interesting.

There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI.  I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate,  18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA.  I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now.  Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.

I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying.  It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again.  I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.

This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'

While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.

Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.

I agree   Tates VOICE is pleasing   Todds is not  IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend,  Todd will never be that IMO,   Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live.  Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented

Wow...that's a hot take. I'll spare you the three-million youtube links I could post here, but let's call a spade a spade—no matter how much YOU love Tate, everyone has bad nights...everyone. Even Tater. Whether or not you've witnessed it is one thing (I can't argue your experiences), but the dude has objectively struggled and the visual evidence is everywhere.

That being said, I love Tate...love his voice, and just like JLB, I tend 'handicap' singers I love. An off note or three (hundred) is rarely going to ruin a concert for me.

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

[Setzer]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.

[EPICVIEW]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.

If thats his worst night  then hes better than I even thought.. the sound quality is very bad overall on the recording ... Geoffs speaking voice seems off, sounds like his pushing through a flu or cold. I will say on OMC at the Moore his voice seemed off to me.. but if thats it over 35 years he amazing.. I remember seeing Halford after he left JP on the Maiden QR Halford tour and Rob was so bad I was shocked,

[bosk1]

The Empire video farther up the page is an apt example.  I mean, you could see/hear his loss of range going back to the Q2K tour.  And he had plenty of off nights when I saw them on the Tribe tour (and as documented on Live Evolution and Art of Live).  But where he really started to sound truly bad on a consistent basis was probably the Mindcrime II through D2C era.  I'm not talking about downtuning and singing lower.  I'm not talking about going for the odd note here and there and missing it.  I'm not talking about altering the vocal melody to make it easier.  Most singers, especially in rock/metal, have to do that as they age.  That's just a reality.  What I am talking about is consistently being off key, sounding overly strained, visibly singing incorrectly, and either lip synching and/or tossing lines to the audience frequently throughout the show.  Lots of singers have nights where that happens.  But with Tate, it became a regular thing.  And there are three things that really bothered me about it that I personally have a hard time getting past:  (1) he was SO cavalier about it and just didn't care, (2) he refused to get coaching, do proper warmups, and do other things good singers do to help preserve/recover his voice, and (3) much of his vocal deterioration appears to have been a direct result of abusing his voice and body over a long period of time, and even after it was clear that he was losing it, he didn't care.  It even crept into studio recordings (say what you will, but he sounded flat out awful on American Soldier, D2C, and FU).  Those things bother me.  And because of them, I find it hard to get past the bias I have when listening to him.  I can't unhear the things he is doing wrong, and they jump right out at me and are amplified because of the things I know.  Look, I still give him his due.  I know how hard it is to sing some of QR's material, especially the earlier stuff.  I know how hard it is do pull that off live, especially an entire set, night after night.  And I know how hard it is to do a passable job of even a couple of those songs while sick.  Tate toured for years and managed to pull off that material night after night, whether healthy, sick, exhausted, or what have you.  I marvel at what he used to be able to do.  But that also doesn't somehow erase how bad he was on a very regular basis in the latter years with QR.  No matter who much one admires the guy, you can't with a straight face argue that he sang well during that period.  He didn't.

Now all that said, in fairness, he seems to have made enough changes since being kicked out of the band that he does much better vocally.  It took him awhile.  And I'm not sure what he started doing differently, other than perhaps not performing as frequently.  But he sounds better.  He's still a shadow of what he was.  But he sounds more like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, but still has a lot of talent, and is giving his all to give the best he has to give vs. sounding like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, lost his gift, and doesn't really care.

[EPICVIEW]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.

Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017? 

[EPICVIEW]

The Empire video farther up the page is an apt example.  I mean, you could see/hear his loss of range going back to the Q2K tour.  And he had plenty of off nights when I saw them on the Tribe tour (and as documented on Live Evolution and Art of Live).  But where he really started to sound truly bad on a consistent basis was probably the Mindcrime II through D2C era.  I'm not talking about downtuning and singing lower.  I'm not talking about going for the odd note here and there and missing it.  I'm not talking about altering the vocal melody to make it easier.  Most singers, especially in rock/metal, have to do that as they age.  That's just a reality.  What I am talking about is consistently being off key, sounding overly strained, visibly singing incorrectly, and either lip synching and/or tossing lines to the audience frequently throughout the show.  Lots of singers have nights where that happens.  But with Tate, it became a regular thing.  And there are three things that really bothered me about it that I personally have a hard time getting past:  (1) he was SO cavalier about it and just didn't care, (2) he refused to get coaching, do proper warmups, and do other things good singers do to help preserve/recover his voice, and (3) much of his vocal deterioration appears to have been a direct result of abusing his voice and body over a long period of time, and even after it was clear that he was losing it, he didn't care.  It even crept into studio recordings (say what you will, but he sounded flat out awful on American Soldier, D2C, and FU).  Those things bother me.  And because of them, I find it hard to get past the bias I have when listening to him.  I can't unhear the things he is doing wrong, and they jump right out at me and are amplified because of the things I know.  Look, I still give him his due.  I know how hard it is to sing some of QR's material, especially the earlier stuff.  I know how hard it is do pull that off live, especially an entire set, night after night.  And I know how hard it is to do a passable job of even a couple of those songs while sick.  Tate toured for years and managed to pull off that material night after night, whether healthy, sick, exhausted, or what have you.  I marvel at what he used to be able to do.  But that also doesn't somehow erase how bad he was on a very regular basis in the latter years with QR.  No matter who much one admires the guy, you can't with a straight face argue that he sang well during that period.  He didn't.

Now all that said, in fairness, he seems to have made enough changes since being kicked out of the band that he does much better vocally.  It took him awhile.  And I'm not sure what he started doing differently, other than perhaps not performing as frequently.  But he sounds better.  He's still a shadow of what he was.  But he sounds more like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, but still has a lot of talent, and is giving his all to give the best he has to give vs. sounding like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, lost his gift, and doesn't really care.

good post and read Boss.   I guess for me Geoff owes me nothing after 97. if anything he had to put too much work and energy into holding the band together and running the LLC etcpost Chris, anything after that was all gravy.. I could say the same for the other members of the band besides Chris,  they had not improved at all, so I forgive Geoff as nobody was pushing him to be better, he was the draw.  Im always amazed besides Chris and Scott how mediocre the band really is. its Goeffs voice that carried them to any notoriety.  Live I never had any issue with Tate ever, and the band was good enough but not excellent. at least Tate was fun to watch,  its not like Tate had a band like DT or Sym X etc that were so outstanding to lift and push him. 

[Setzer]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.

Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017?

It was. Maybe the last, because I doubt Geoff will return here. I'd go see him with Avantasia if they came around, but they don't appear to schedule in Denmark.
I first saw Queensrÿche with Todd in November 2019. I would have liked to have seen them back in 2016, but I didn't make it. Before that, the last time Queensrÿche played in Denmark was in 1995, about 6 months before I was born

[EPICVIEW]

I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.

His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.

He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.

When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos

Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on,  If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them,  Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable,  its all fun to discuss

Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.

Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017?

It was. Maybe the last, because I doubt Geoff will return here. I'd go see him with Avantasia if they came around, but they don't appear to schedule in Denmark.
I first saw Queensrÿche with Todd in November 2019. I would have liked to have seen them back in 2016, but I didn't make it. Before that, the last time Queensrÿche played in Denmark was in 1995, about 6 months before I was born

ah   makes sense now that you are from Denmark...glad you got to see Geoff, its nice to see stars live, to see them,  Its weird back in the old days ( late 70s 80s) there was little recording of shows and it was about seeing the band , now its about listening back to recordings of the shows and being critical of mistakes etc. i guess thats why I like to see stars live and the music long as its B+ to me it was great and it was about having fun, partying ( who knows many times we were buzzed lol or more) and it was about the memory and experience and not as much emphasis on hitting notes etc.   all the best to you Setzer ..ENJOY

[Samsara]

A few things:

Re: Dublin 10/29/90 -- this was the first show on the Building Empires tour.  Setzer is right, anyone can have an off night. I listened to that whole clip of Resistance, and a little bit of Walk in the Shadows and it sounds like the whole band is off a bit at the start, although it could be the quality of the recording. It IS the first time they are playing "Resistance" live, and while rehearsed, flubs can happen. Tate doesn't sound bad, at least to my ears. Not sure what the complaint would be except for a couple of little screeches at the start. And that song, if you're a singer, it's in your head voice and high the entire time. It's actually not an easy song to sing, right off the bat. I saw them do it in 2009, and Tate was having trouble getting high enough to sing it. After the solo he was better, but it's still difficult.

Here was my recording of Tate in 2009 (done on an old digital camera) - https://youtu.be/qgC0IYqMemU

Here is La Torre doing it in 2020 (on my phone) - https://youtu.be/NT3VypPJcJA

>>>>You be the judge. Again, it's totally subjective. Both are not the greatest vocal performances. I prefer Tate when comparing those two videos, personally. And it's not even close. Again, it is not an easy song to sing. It's high the entire time. No breaks. I give La Torre credit for giving it a whirl. I doubt Tate can even get close to his 2009 performance of it today. That is a bitch of a tune. Which is why it was pretty incredible to see QR play it pretty damn well (particularly Tate) every show from October 29, 1990 to January 1992. Tate was just incredible back then.

re: Band's Idaho 2021 performance and "mailing it in." - my response to that is...its a one-off gig and the first time they played live in a year. They probably didn't even rehearse as a band and they are missing their second guitar player. I mean, when I watched the video, I knew what I was going to get before I even clicked on it.

re: QR being a "job." Well, it IS a job. And some of them have jobs outside of QR. Parker, for instance, at least in the last year owned a guitar store in the Seattle area. that may be why he was unavailable. Or it could be something personal. I know some of the others have regular other jobs too. It's different than it used to be. If it starts to seem that way to folks when they go see them and they don't like the vibe, they can choose NOT to go to future shows.

I saw them in 2020 on The Verdict tour for personal reasons. Once it was over, I had made up my mind that I don't need to see them live ever again (I may end up seeing them anyway, but it would be because of other reasons). Nor do I feel the need to see Tate (plugged in) ever again (I'd make an exception if he came around doing all-acoustic, but I'll pass on this current Empire/Rage tour even though there is a local date). Queensryche is a band, but at least in this biographer's opinion (seems weird to say that, but I'm going with it, since a friend called me that the other day - lol), it is more about earning money and maximizing earnings these days. And that's my personal opinion. Creating the albums satisfies the artistic urge, but playing live is all about making bread, not expanding the band's fan base and reach, like it was in the 80s and early 90s when they were young. Think about how old their two remaining original members are. Retirement has to be looming, no?

re: EPICVIEW -- dude, I'm not a mod here to tell you what to do or not to do, just a historian of QR and one of the biggest fans of their original lineup. Many agree that they'd prefer Tate to sing with QR as opposed to Todd. I'm one of them. I feel like Tate has a much richer tone, and while Todd hits higher notes and can really belt out that EP-Rage stuff in a classic power metal fashion, I feel like he struggles with the Mindcrime-PL material because his voice isn't as rich and full as Tate's was/is. That's all subjective and my personal opinion, obviously.

But almost every single one of your posts looks to start that kind of back and forth argument. (Obviously, that was a bit of a dramatic statement, but you know what I mean.) If you want people to take your commentary more seriously, you may want to contribute in a less biased and more helpful way.

re: Stone filling in for Parker -- I love Stone. not his tone, but the dude. He is one of the nicest guys. I met him at various meet and greets over the years. The last time my wife and I met him though, it was his last show before being canned by the Tates. The Pain in the Grass Festival in August 2008 (or was it July). He was in the airport on the way home to Wisconsin, and we said hello and chatted for a few minutes. Slater loved Stoney. Said Stone worked his ass off for the band. So while I'm not really a big fan of his tone, any time I see Stoney up there jammin' on some Ryche, I smile. Good dude.

Overall, at this point in Queensryche's history, people who are still fans should just be thankful. It's not easy to keep afloat. And after 40 years, they keep on keeping on. There's something to be said for that, even if you're not as happy with some of what they do, or the people in the group.

[cfmoran13]

A few things...

To save space, I didn't "quote" your whole post.  But, I have to say that it was very articulate and fair on all points.  Thanks for sharing.  Can't wait for your book.

[Enigmachine]

You know, I find a lot of discussion on Tate vs Torre very fascinating as someone who doesn't have much of a history with the band. From my perspective, whether or not the Torre era is considered legit Queensryche or not... it's a damned fine USPM style band with a steely edge to them. On many days, I may even consider an album like The Verdict to be superior to some of the classics and in the first few years of the era, I would've preferred the 2013 self titled and Condition Human to them due to it simply being more to my taste, being closer to a band like Sanctuary. Whether they carry as important a legacy or can sell as many tickets as they could with Tate is irrelevant to me, what's important is that write music that I want to listen to and since 2013, they've been quite successful at that. I wouldn't be able to say the same for 1997-2011 era Queensryche and my interest in Geoff's OM project is too thin for me to give those albums a listen. Seeing the disparity in ratings between Torre era Queensryche and that, as well as Frequency Unknown being the ill fated disaster that it was, I don't think I'm regretting my reluctance.

[Samsara]

Enigma,

Great post. I think the 2013 self titled, Condition Human  and The Verdict are slso superior to anything put out from the band post-original lineup. It's great stuff. A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.

I dont think the current material gets enough attention from the band in a live setting. They feel a need to play the hits, which I understand. But given my own personal preference, I think QR would be better served playing songs from the La Torre era in abundance, with just a few classic tracks. I'd enjoy that a whole lot more.

[Enigmachine]

For sure. I think the material is strong enough to carry them forward, wheras relying on nostalgia I think can only hold them back in the long run (if they believe they have a long run left, I guess). The positive reception to it should really be a signal for them to not be afraid of prioritising the last 3 albums and emphasising their status as a modern, up-to-date band the way Fates Warning and Kamelot are doing in spite of their age, for instance. I can imagine that if they do that, the debate about them being the real QR kinda matters a lot less, because then they wouldn't be defining themselves primarily by songs and albums made over 30 years ago.

[ytserush]

A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.

I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.

[jammindude]

A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.

I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.

Chris didn't leave until Q2Krap

[ytserush]

A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.

I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.

Chris didn't leave until Q2Krap

Stand corrected.

Proves how much I've really paid attention to Queensryche since that time (Late '90s disillusionment)

[jammindude]

Additionally....due to the fact that HITNF had been reportedly a 80% Chris project, there was some feelings that QR might be revitalized moving forward.

Oh how wrong we were.   

Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind. 

[TAC]

Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.

More like the wrong side of your mind.

I can't believe you've never heard their 80's output.

[jammindude]

Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.

More like the wrong side of your mind.

I can't believe you've never heard their 80's output.

Um....dude.   I'm from Seattle.   I was listening to KZOK when they were promoting the EP.   Before they were signed.   


Wait...was this supposed to be at someone else?

[TAC]

Wait...was this supposed to be at someone else?

It was aimed at whoever said this:

top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind. 

[jammindude]

Oh I see.   

I stand by what I said.  Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible.  In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.   

Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close. 

[Trav86]

Oh I see.   

I stand by what I said.  Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible.  In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.   

Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.

How many tracks did they release between 1983-1994? It would be somewhere after that number.

[jammindude]

Have you guys even heard that song?  Or did you just tune out the entire album because most of it was crap?

[TAC]

Oh I see.   

I stand by what I said.  Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible.  In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.   

Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.

How many tracks did they release between 1983-1994? It would be somewhere after that number.

I'm sure it's better than Disconnected.

Have you guys even heard that song?  Or did you just tune out the entire album because most of it was crap?

I've heard it and it's a good song. Very good actually, though it's been a long time since I've heard it.