Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Lethean]

Wow, that's pretty sad. I think someone needs to shake them. I mean really - they played about 90 minutes when they co-headlined with Dream Theater.  Now they're the actual headliner, so ought to play at least 91.

[ShadowWalker]

Wow, that's pretty sad. I think someone needs to shake them. I mean really - they played about 90 minutes when they co-headlined with Dream Theater.  Now they're the actual headliner, so ought to play at least 91.

I have seen the band with TLT headline in a non-festival capacity at least six times, maybe seven, and maybe once did they breach the 90-minute mark. Most of the time it hovered around 80-85 minutes (and that includes an encore break). They used to be an automatic purchase. Nowadays, it depends on who is opening. With Fates Warning on this bill, I gave in and picked up tix to two shows. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably would have passed on one of them, especially since I get a FW headlining show in between the two Ryche shows I am attending.

[bosk1]

Not paying them for such a short set.  Sorry.  And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).

[King Postwhore]

I am.  Seeing them this upcoming Sunday.

[Samsara]

Not paying them for such a short set.  Sorry.  And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).

To be fair, casinos do restrict stage time. My guess is that Dream Theater negotiated that specifically because of the nature of the show, and they really aren't a casino act.

But Frankenryche should be ashamed of itself. There is absolutely no reason the band should be under 90 minutes, at a minimum, outside of casino gigs. Oh wait, is that "negative rhetoric" again. I'm sorry if the truth hurts. Deal with it. Put your big boy pants on. (Not addressing you, bosk.) 

I just don't know why people continue to support this ridiculousness. Sure, the album is good. But is it really Queensryche without three of five original members, and the two primary original songwriters? You've lost the heart, soul, and backbone of the band. All that remains are the balls (Wilton), and blood (Ed). I get that bands change, and you gotta do what you gotta do. But for every good thing this band does (for example, the new album), they do two bad things (unforgivable short setlist, telling people who got screwed over by Pledge to take it up with their credit card companies). They just continually shoot themselves in the foot at every turn. And then expect people to be happy with it. And some fans just lap it up.

Frankenryche needs a mascot now. A big Frankenstein covered in try-ryche tattoos. Have it stand 10 feet tall, and walk around the stage falling down continually. At the end of their 70 minutes on stage, they can just sever its head, ala Alice Cooper. 

[Nick]

It should also be noted that Dream Theater played alone on the Astonishing tour while Queensryche has two acts along for this run.

Astonishing tour featured 2 hours and 10 minutes of music. Queensryche tour features about 2 hours and 35 minutes of music. Sure, that's not all Queensrche, but given they have two turnovers in addition to that they are still utilizing venues for a much longer period of time than Dream Theater did. And unfortunately Queensryche just isn't in a financial position to do headlining tours anymore. In an ideal world the opener (I can't honestly remember to care who it is) wouldn't be there, saving 30 minutes of play time to give to Queensryche, and a setup meaning 15 minutes to give to Fates Warning. That said they're probably shelling out about $500 a show to open, and that's money Queensryche needs to make the tour doable.

[Lethean]

Yeah, but... I have no problem with them having an opening act.  They could still play for 20-30 more minutes
  Some tours have 3 touring opening bands.  If the venues (non casino venues) are truly preventing them from playing longer so be it, but I certainly have my doubts about that.

[ShadowWalker]

It should also be noted that Dream Theater played alone on the Astonishing tour while Queensryche has two acts along for this run.

Astonishing tour featured 2 hours and 10 minutes of music. Queensryche tour features about 2 hours and 35 minutes of music. Sure, that's not all Queensrche, but given they have two turnovers in addition to that they are still utilizing venues for a much longer period of time than Dream Theater did. And unfortunately Queensryche just isn't in a financial position to do headlining tours anymore. In an ideal world the opener (I can't honestly remember to care who it is) wouldn't be there, saving 30 minutes of play time to give to Queensryche, and a setup meaning 15 minutes to give to Fates Warning. That said they're probably shelling out about $500 a show to open, and that's money Queensryche needs to make the tour doable.

Only three shows have two support acts, Nick (Baltimore, NYC, and one in Mass, I believe, have The Cringe in addition to Fates) unless the venues are adding their own local support to the national tour of QR and FW.

I made a playlist on my iPod using the setlists as posted on setlist.fm on the opening night. Fates (combining Falling and Falling Further) came in a 48min. Queensryche, using a live version of Eyes (from the Silent Lucidity CD single which has Anarchy-Xtra attached to it) and the live version of QotR from the first TLT-fronted release, clocked in at just under 65 minutes. Two bands playing LESS THAN 2 HOURS of music.

And the number of opening acts is irrelevant if the headliner wants it to be. I have seen The Cure three times. All three times with an opening act. The shortest headlining set I have seen that band play is 2:40. I am going to see Y&T tonight. One opener. They usually play a 2 hour main set (around 20 songs) and then an encore. Opening night of this tour featured a 20-song set and a 2-song encore.

Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...

[Nick]

Oh, I thought the opener was for the entire tour. In that case my bad, and screw that short ass set.

[Samsara]

Sometimes, for low-selling shows, the venue adds an act. That doesn't take away from the time QR can play. Generally, unless there is a curfew, a headliner can play for MUCH longer than QR's current 70 minutes.

Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...

Bingo.

Oh, I thought the opener was for the entire tour. In that case my bad, and screw that short ass set.

 

[Dittomist]

Queensryche just posted a photograph from a recent show on their Facebook. Maybe if enough of us comment on the ridiculously short set, a couple songs will be added. That's probably wishful thinking though.

[Lethean]

Sometimes, for low-selling shows, the venue adds an act. That doesn't take away from the time QR can play. Generally, unless there is a curfew, a headliner can play for MUCH longer than QR's current 70 minutes.

Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...

Bingo.

Well, I suppose the hardcore fans have to choose their battles.   There are bands I'd go see, short set or not.  I'm going because of Fates Warning, and 45 minutes seems like an average set length for opening bands so I can't complain.  If I was a diehard QR fan who'd been clamoring for certain songs and then they played the songs, I'd be irritated by the short set, but happy to see the songs I wanted to see.

[bosk1]

Not paying them for such a short set.  Sorry.  And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).

To be fair, casinos do restrict stage time. My guess is that Dream Theater negotiated that specifically because of the nature of the show, and they really aren't a casino act.

Oh, sure.  I'm not saying they don't restrict at all.  But a casino is not going to restrict a headliner to under 70 minutes, as someone suggested farther up.  That was my only point.  You can't blame a casino for QR only playing 13 songs any way you slice it.  That is entirely on the band.

I am going to see Y&T tonight. One opener.

Please report back. 

[Samsara]

Well, I suppose the hardcore fans have to choose their battles.   There are bands I'd go see, short set or not.  I'm going because of Fates Warning, and 45 minutes seems like an average set length for opening bands so I can't complain.  If I was a diehard QR fan who'd been clamoring for certain songs and then they played the songs, I'd be irritated by the short set, but happy to see the songs I wanted to see.

Thank God I am not a fan of Frankenryche any longer. I just observe for the entertainment

I'm going strictly to see Fates Warning, and will be bolting immediately after they are done.

But a casino is not going to restrict a headliner to under 70 minutes, as someone suggested farther up.  That was my only point.  You can't blame a casino for QR only playing 13 songs any way you slice it.  That is entirely on the band.

Don't be so sure. I remember being in Vegas on October 29 and October 30, 1999 for the second and third shows of the Q2k tour. On the first night, it was a short set (18 songs -- imagine that, 20 years ago, that was considered ridiculously short). There was almost a riot (no joke) because tickets were 75 bucks to the show (which at the time was expensive), and people were IRATE that the band played for less than 90 minutes. The next night, they played 24 songs and a full two hours, thankfully. But the buzz around the venue that night was that the Hard Rock put a hard limit on how long the band performed the first night, and after getting the reaction that they saw, lifted the cap the second night, and QR played everything it had rehearsed to "make up" for the shortened first night.

Security told us all that it was the venue that restricted the time the band was on stage the first night. So, casinos can and will restrict how long a band plays. At least according to casino security 20 years ago. Damn I'm getting old.

But 12 or 13 songs and 70 minutes, in a club, as a headliner, for a band that has been around for 38 years - shameful. No other way to describe it.

p.s. Oh wait, that's "negative rhetoric" again from this "fella." Funny how truth that isn't convenient for someone is labeled "negative," but when it works in that same person's favor, then they are all for honesty.   

[?]

I remember seeing Sonata Arctica for the first time in 2010, and they only played an 80-minute (I think) set with 12 songs, but at least they had guitar and keyboard solo spots and a We Will Rock You sing-along as an extra. I was only 15 back then and hadn't been to more than a handful of gigs yet, but even then I thought it was a bit short, so don't even get me started on 70 minutes

*show spoilers ahead*

Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s

[Ben_Jamin]

Damn...only 70 min. How cheap. At least 90 min. Would be alright. But they're basically playing an opening set as a headlining set. Which is odd.

[Mladen]

I'm still digesting the album, but the shorter tracks like Inner unrest and Light years are really fun to rock out to. Those are some catchy choruses. I also think Bent and Launder the conscience had very strong outros. There were plenty of neat guitar harmonies throughout the album as well. It would be great if the album grew on me even more.

[bosk1]

Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s

Um, that's not Todd on drums.

But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo.  It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR).  But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.

[Samsara]

Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s

Um, that's not Todd on drums.

But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo.  It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR).  But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.

It wasn't written for La Torre's voice. He's having to sing lower, which generally shouldn't be a big deal, but because his voice is thinner, it doesn't really fill it out. Not his fault at all. Just how the song is. That's why, to my ear, he always sounds "off" on the stuff from Empire-PL. His voice doesn't have that richness Tate's does. He does not sound bad at all, and I don't hear him struggling, except a little bit on the chorus. But that's where that richness comes in.

And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?

[?]

Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s

Um, that's not Todd on drums.

The angle of the video sucks, but around 5:50 you can see him playing what looks like either a small kit or a bunch of toms.

[bosk1]

And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?

No, the end of I Am I where the song has the sampling at the end with the "machine gun" effect, and Tate would always lip sync that and act like he was singing it.

[Samsara]

And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?

No, the end of I Am I where the song has the sampling at the end with the "machine gun" effect, and Tate would always lip sync that and act like he was singing it.

 

Senior moment. LOL.

[T-ski]

Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s

I watched some more of this vid and "Man the Machine" didn't sound very crisp, and once again Todd struggles to sing the new songs live.

[ReaperKK]

Not paying them for such a short set.  Sorry.  And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).

70 minute set, QR just doesn't care anymore, it seems like that they haven't cared about being a band since the early 90's.

[Cruithne]

But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo.  It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR).  But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.

Todd continues to struggle on his version of what an old chorus leader called the "dangerous Ds" regarding sopranos and QR's material doesn't let the vocalist skip out the notes that're in that technically uncomfortable area.

Tate was an exceptional singing talent. Todd's a bit of a stunt vocalist.

[Art]

I am a completely casual QR fan (not very familiarized with their discography except OM and Empire), but i like the new album. Solid effort.

[bosk1]

Tate was an exceptional singing talent.

Absolutely.  As much disdain as I have for the things he has done, I cannot even articulate how much respect I have for his singing talent and ability to go out and deliver on some of the most difficult material imaginable night in and night out on tours. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I think, one reason I cant really get into the new Queensryche, is due to Todd not having that nice soft, warm, low voice Geoff had. It's why I love Geoffs vocals. You notice it in Empire and at times Silent Lucidity.

[Samsara]

I think, one reason I cant really get into the new Queensryche, is due to Todd not having that nice soft, warm, low voice Geoff had. It's why I love Geoffs vocals. You notice it in Empire and at times Silent Lucidity.

Yep. That's what I've been saying. And its not Todd's fault, its just not the way his voice is. He's fine on the EP-Rage, but starting with the Mindcrime stuff, and certainly with Empire and PL, his voice just doesn't have that depth and richness that Tate's has. That's not a knock at all on Todd, its just his voice.

Queensryche was very much a sum of its parts. Chris has a great knack for killer melodies (both for vocals and the way he constructed guitar solos), chord progressions, and arrangement. Geoff had such an incredible voice that has power, depth, range (at one time), and just this commanding presence. Scott had this undeniable Rush-inspired groove and a sound all his own. MIchael has an extremely distinct style of the way he writes solos and riffs, and Ed has a bass sound that really compliments it all that is severely underrated, plus great backing vocals to that meshed with DeGarmo and Tate.

You take away a bunch of those pieces, and its just. not. the. same. And that's OK, but that's not for me. People may take offense when I call it "Frankenryche." But that's the honest truth. What was Queensryche from 1981-1997 has slowly been bastardized and killed. And they zap it each year to come alive, take some new directions, and make money off of it. And I get it -- people need to make a living and survive. I totally get it. But at some point when does the band become a different band, except in name?

Retrospectively, they really did become a different band when Chris left. He was too integral to everything that they did creatively. But they soldiered on, and after a brief stint with Kelly, the reunion just didn't pan out. So they went with Tateryche after that, allowing Tate to steer the direction and involve outside writers. Then once they punted Tate, the music got better, and now predictably, the music is still really good, but without Scott, its just totally a different vibe. Its Queensryche in name, and its a solid band with solid new music. But its not Queensryche in soul. And they all know it. But they have no recourse but to carry on.

I don't blame them for that. But man, it really sounds nothing like what made them distinct in the first place. The Verdict is a really good album. But it has very little in common with classic Queensryche, other than Wilton's signature solo style, and a few melodic flourishes here and there. Otherwise, its just a prog metal band stretching its new creativity.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm listening to The Verdict now, and so far it's not bad. Not at all the old style everyone wants, but still good for what they are now. I'm sure i'll still enjoy the show. Even more so now based on the set. Because It's what they are now.

[RAIN]

I'm a huge fan of the Todd era of Queensryche.  Before Todd, I was just a very very casual listener.  But since Todd, the band is just different, and for me, in a great way.
The new album is good, but as of right now, after 5 listens, it's my least fav of the Todd albums, which is funny because everyone seems to think it's the best.  I tend to think that's what most people do anyways after a huge lineup change.  People finally get into the new lineup after 3-4 albums and say that's their new favourite (This is happening like crazy with Dream Theater and DOT).
Condition Human was perfect, a perfect album.  The Verdict is very good.  And the drumming is fantastic, but I'm no drummer, so I'll leave the comparisons to others, but it works for me.  Tons of fills and power, just great drumming.  I just wish that Wilton progressed a bit more with his solos. 

[Setzer]

... I don't blame them for that. But man, it really sounds nothing like what made them distinct in the first place. The Verdict is a really good album. But it has very little in common with classic Queensryche, other than Wilton's signature solo style, and a few melodic flourishes here and there. Otherwise, its just a prog metal band stretching its new creativity.

This is the "problem" with them having the Queensrÿche name. They're damned if they just play all the old songs, and make albums that sound like the old stuff; and they're damned if they don't - losing some of the older stuff, and making records that have their own style and sound.
It must be tough constantly having to cater to 1 of 2 (or 3) groups of people, who all want you to do separate things.

[?]

Finally listened to the album on Spotify, and I have to say Light Years, Inside Out and Portrait sound really good, especially the latter, which has a bit of a Promised Land vibe On the other hand, Propaganda Fashion is a bit annoying.

[NoseofNicko]

On the other hand, Propaganda Fashion is a bit annoying.

Yeah that’s the only song on the album I don’t like.

[Cruithne]

Propoganda Fashion, and the start of Inner Unrest, are good examples of the kind of clumsy lyrics I've complained about LaTorre writing in the past.

Well, more fool me then. Now I've got the CD through it turns out Propoganda Fashion is entirely an Edbass song