Author Topic: General musings about pirating  (Read 5887 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #105 on: November 26, 2012, 07:38:46 PM »
Lol at that comparison

Offline Chino

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #106 on: November 26, 2012, 07:56:40 PM »

Offline r0cken

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #107 on: November 26, 2012, 10:27:36 PM »
Agreed. This thread totally reeks of the downloading subculture on the internet which (like the marijuna subculture) goes around acting like the behavior is 100 percent cool with no harm done, and all detractors are just uninformed victims of some mass brainwashing campaign.
I guess that's... Yeah, almost true.

Offline snapple

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #108 on: November 27, 2012, 07:32:41 AM »
I love my friends that pirate music and use IP spoofers and think there is nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure their ISP could track all that bandwidth usage if they wanted. And, you'd get into an assload more trouble for having that kind of software as opposed to just pirated music/movies/operating systems/games etc.

Offline snapple

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #109 on: November 27, 2012, 07:35:33 AM »
Barry... I hear you, but - and as an IT leader, you would know this better than anyone - build a better mousetrap, the mice will eventually get smarter.

You mean I won't be able to use Kazaa/LimeWire anymore?

Offline Chino

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #110 on: November 27, 2012, 07:44:20 AM »
Barry... I hear you, but - and as an IT leader, you would know this better than anyone - build a better mousetrap, the mice will eventually get smarter.

You mean I won't be able to use Kazaa/LimeWire anymore?

What about Morpheus?

Offline Orbert

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #111 on: November 27, 2012, 07:58:48 AM »
r0cken, you seem awfully dismissive of every argument that suggests buying music is the perhaps more moral than stealing as much of it as you can.
It is more moral buying it, of course. The artist should be paid.
What I'm saying is that there's a lot more to it, than the one-dimensional "downloading is stealing" argument. Dismissing the economic issue for a moment, one could say that there are different degrees of moral, and definitely different degrees of illegal. Stealing a chewing gum is different from robbing a bank, is different from downloading a song. Some would say that stealing is stealing is stealing, but even the law wouldn't agree with you.

And then, you could see downloading an album as copying it from a friend. Legal? Moral? You'd get different answers at different times and places. See, for example the "Audio Home Recording Act" of 1992 (lots have changed since then, I know).

Yeah, I know. I realize that the internet music culture has found all and every reason to act like downloading music isn't really that immoral or illegal. But, in most cases, they're wrong, and just trying to justify (imo) a lazy and greedy habit.

r0cken, you seem awfully dismissive of every argument that suggests buying music is the perhaps more moral than stealing as much of it as you can.

Related story.

My dad got the new Led Zeppelin Celebration Day CD/DVD set.  I asked him if I could borrow it.  I took the CD's up to my room and ripped them to my computer.  I then put the physical CD's back in the case and gave them back to my dad. 

He was happy to have his CD's back.  But I know that I stole from him, and the pain burns deep in my heart.

IIRC, that's neither illegal nor immoral.

I'm amazed that there was no further follow-up to this, so I guess I'll do it.

In the first block, downloading is immoral and illegal, and people who do it are lazy and greedy.

In the second block, someone has made a complete rip of an entire CD/DVD set, but that's neither illegal nor immoral.

They're the same thing.

In each scenario, a copy has been made of copyrighted material for the use of the person who made the copy.  If you download music or video, you're making yourself a copy.  If you rip someone's discs, you're making yourself a copy.  In neither case did you pay for it.

The only difference I can see is one of scale.  The files up on the Internet are there for anyone to grab; obviously that's over the line.  But copying your dad's discs is the same thing.  Suppose Dad has five kids and each one makes a copy.  Is that still okay?  Then he takes them to work and passes the discs around the office and everyone at work makes a copy.  Has he crossed the line yet?  Oh, what the heck, why not just upload the files to some site so anyone who wants a copy can just grab.  It's easier and this is good stuff that should be shared, right?

Offline r0cken

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #112 on: November 27, 2012, 08:42:14 AM »
Quote
Suppose Dad has five kids and each one makes a copy.  Is that still okay?  Then he takes them to work and passes the discs around the office and everyone at work makes a copy.  Has he crossed the line yet?
In Germany, for example, there's a law that says that you can give copies to up to seven friends, and they must be your friends, not someone you just met. They go into real detail there (as with all laws).

There are different laws in different countries, in regarding to how many people can watch the film you bought with you. And of what relation they must be. There are laws for everything. For sharing and copying, and giving away, and reselling and when it's okay and when it is not. Most people are just not familiar with those laws.

Offline Zook

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #113 on: November 27, 2012, 09:09:33 AM »
The real reason Ghost Face killed all of Sidney's friends is because they didn't pay for their own copy of Halloween.

Offline Orbert

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #114 on: November 27, 2012, 09:29:41 AM »
Quote
Suppose Dad has five kids and each one makes a copy.  Is that still okay?  Then he takes them to work and passes the discs around the office and everyone at work makes a copy.  Has he crossed the line yet?
In Germany, for example, there's a law that says that you can give copies to up to seven friends, and they must be your friends, not someone you just met. They go into real detail there (as with all laws).

There are different laws in different countries, in regarding to how many people can watch the film you bought with you. And of what relation they must be. There are laws for everything. For sharing and copying, and giving away, and reselling and when it's okay and when it is not. Most people are just not familiar with those laws.

I'm not up on the laws in Europe, but it sounds like they've got it all figured out, and have laid it all out.  I'm not aware of that degree of specificity here in the U.S.  Here, it's basically, "No, you can't do it, at all.  Well wait... you can make one copy, for yourself, for backup, but that's it."

Offline Chino

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #115 on: November 27, 2012, 11:45:33 AM »
I have no problem making multiple backups of songs I purchase. When I buy a track, I need it on my PC, my iPod, my iPad, my phone, and a CD.

Offline Implode

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2012, 12:01:49 PM »
I've never been one to download tons of music. I make it a point to try to buy CD's with music I really enjoy. I feel like the artists deserve my money. But on the other hand, I don't see illegally downloading as that immoral. Sadly, I see legally purchasing music like a donation, aside from paying for the artwork.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2012, 12:13:12 PM »
The one reason I dont illegaly download anymore is because of the sound quality, and not having control of combining tracks that flow together.

I believe Piracy got worse due to ipods becoming as popular as they did. Mostly everyone used cd players still, while only a handful had mp3 players. Plus, i never knew about downloading until i heard Lars fighting napster, i was all you can download music for free? I remember having to go buy a cd when my friends never gave them back or brought em back scratched.

I think the only solution is to educate on how buying music helps the artist, not only money wise but also to see where going to tour is feesable, and the artist wont be losing money. Supporting the artist directly by buying merch is great too, also helps if a band sells their cds on their site.

I also believe piracy isnt bad as it sows good bands from average bands.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2012, 12:33:50 PM »
ISPs are going to be forced into dealing with this problem sooner rather than later.
Except that you can't regulate the internet.


Right, there are no limited data plans...oh, wait.






Offline r0cken

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #119 on: November 27, 2012, 01:08:00 PM »
What you sure can't do is intimidate people into buying music.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2012, 01:15:18 PM »
What you sure can't do is intimidate people into buying music.

Who said anything about that? ???

Online Adami

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #121 on: November 27, 2012, 01:42:18 PM »
What you sure can't do is intimidate people into buying music.

Clint Eastwood or Joe Pesci probably could.
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Offline Big Hath

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #122 on: November 27, 2012, 03:21:13 PM »
I'm proud of DTF, in this thread we've not had a single YARRRRRRRRRR!!!!


oops
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Offline Cedar redaC

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #123 on: November 27, 2012, 08:48:46 PM »
Perhaps you should ask bosk to reverse the "e" and "a" in the second half of your user name.
Cedar redaC swoops in for the kill!

Offline r0cken

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2012, 10:20:12 PM »
What you sure can't do is intimidate people into buying music.
Who said anything about that? ???
The copyright associations that are going after individuals downloading files. The warning letters that are being sent out, the lawsuits (some of them coming from copyright trolls just looking to get rich, but that's another point), threatening people with charges of thousands of dollars for an album or movie download, ridiculous things like this.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 10:28:58 PM by r0cken »

Offline KevShmev

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2012, 10:49:10 PM »
Okay, but that is not intimidating people, unless you are taking the "How dare they hold someone responsible for downloading copyrighted material for free" stance.

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2012, 10:54:08 PM »
Okay, but that is not intimidating people, unless you are taking the "How dare they hold someone responsible for downloading copyrighted material for free" stance.

However, those people are usually charged an insane amount of money for the purpose of making an example of someone, which then serves the purpose of scaring other people away from downloading.

It's not intimidating people in the same way as pointing a gun at them and yelling, it's more like public executions. Showing the consequences in such a way that it is supposed to stop more crime.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #127 on: November 27, 2012, 10:56:15 PM »
I agree that the amount of the fines are just insane, and obviously meant to act as a deterrent, but I wouldn't call it intimidation.

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #128 on: November 27, 2012, 10:57:47 PM »
I agree that the amount of the fines are just insane, and obviously meant to act as a deterrent, but I wouldn't call it intimidation.

I wouldn't either, but I can see how the word might apply to some.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #129 on: November 27, 2012, 11:00:15 PM »
I think that was r0cken's point.  If it's meant to act as a deterent, it's not working.  I wouldn't call it intimidation, either.  I'd call it failure.

In this context, deterrent = intimidation.  They're trying to make an example of the few they catch and prosecute.  It doesn't work.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: General musings about pirating
« Reply #130 on: November 27, 2012, 11:59:11 PM »
How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
30-ish. If I had a job it'd be way more.
What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
Pirate.
Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Often not. Sometimes yes if I'm not sure. I often buy albums I already pirated.
Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Physical.
Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Not really. Sometimes though.
What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
Well often I buy albums without ever hearing like previously said. If I've already heard it but just think it's okay, no I won't buy.