Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Ovechkin is in turbo mode these playoffs.

[jingle.boy]

What a fucking game in Winnipeg too!  The Jets looked lost in the 1st period, and if not for the post, it could've been 4-0 going in to the 2nd period.

[mikeyd23]

Disappointing finish last night for the Pens... I'm not sure what else to say. Hopefully Tom Wilson can concuss another Pen next game and make it three head shots in a row!

[romdrums]

What a fucking game in Winnipeg too!  The Jets looked lost in the 1st period, and if not for the post, it could've been 4-0 going in to the 2nd period.

The play on the Byfuglien goal was amazing.  Laine's pass was beautiful, and Byfuglien's shot was a laser.

[jingle.boy]

Disappointing finish last night for the Pens... I'm not sure what else to say. Hopefully Tom Wilson can concuss another Pen next game and make it three head shots in a row!

One slo-mo angle makes it look really bad, for sure.  In real time, it's hard to say that it was an issue of player safety.

[mikeyd23]

Disappointing finish last night for the Pens... I'm not sure what else to say. Hopefully Tom Wilson can concuss another Pen next game and make it three head shots in a row!

One slo-mo angle makes it look really bad, for sure.  In real time, it's hard to say that it was an issue of player safety.

Eh, I think the NHL needs to follow the NFL's stance and really crack down on head shots of any kind. Intent shouldn't matter at this point, any contact to the head should follow a process, whether it be a fine, then suspension, escalating by offense or whatever. In general, that would be best for the health of the players and really the league as well - they are going to get hammered down the line with player law suits because they have continually failed to disciple or even discourage head shots.

I think the international rules are much closer to getting this sort of thing right -



Oh also - I thought this was interesting, Dan Carcillo, of all people broke the hit down on twitter -

1/ If u have played the game the way I have, this clip is not that difficult to break down. Notice Wilson’s right skate before or at the initial point of contact. It is leaving the ice intentionally, which means he thrusts his body into an upward direction, which is towards the 2/ head of Reese. If we look at the left skate during the point of contact, Wilson is rising up onto his toe, as if he is trying to jump, hence the reason he ended up sitting on the dasher of his own bench after the hit. It is clear that Reese sees Wilson coming but that has very 3/ little to do with the fact that Wilson clearly makes contact with the head/jaw of Reese, in direct result of jumping and thrusting his body in an upward motion. Bc of this, we have a human being who may get the right diagnosis of a #concussion yet will he receive the treatment 4/ he so very clearly deserves, from a league that refuses to admit a link between traumatic brain injuries and the need for treatment

Here's a link to his post, pretty solid analysis actually -
https://twitter.com/CarBombBoom13/status/991665700786683904

[jingle.boy]

I had only seen the replays as the end-of-game summary on TV when I made my last comment.  Seeing the outcome and more review of it, it is a bit much from Wilson.  Aggressive contact is one thing, but it needs to be a bit more controlled.  You can lay people out (Byfuglien has been doing it all playoffs) without the injury/head contact.

[mikeyd23]

I had only seen the replays as the end-of-game summary on TV when I made my last comment.  Seeing the outcome and more review of it, it is a bit much from Wilson.  Aggressive contact is one thing, but it needs to be a bit more controlled.  You can lay people out (Byfuglien has been doing it all playoffs) without the injury/head contact.

For sure, I'm all for good, clean, aggressive hits, but the NHL really needs to start cracking down and anytime there is head contact fine or suspend accordingly. Guys will adjust and start taking the body and not the head.

[pg1067]

Disappointing finish last night for the Pens... I'm not sure what else to say. Hopefully Tom Wilson can concuss another Pen next game and make it three head shots in a row!

One slo-mo angle makes it look really bad, for sure.  In real time, it's hard to say that it was an issue of player safety.

That hit was worse that the Drew Doughty hit that merited a one game suspension.  I don't know Wilson's history, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't get at least a game or two.  Hearing will be held today.

[mikeyd23]

That hit was worse that the Drew Doughty hit that merited a one game suspension.  I don't know Wilson's history, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't get at least a game or two.  Hearing will be held today.

I think Wilson has been suspended twice before, not sure without looking it up. But, the question is - does the league try to make up for the fact that this is his third VERY questionable hit thus far in the playoffs? IMO, he should have been suspended for those hits, so does the league try to make up for lost time or look at things in a vacuum? I really have no clue, the NHL is so inconsistent with this stuff, who knows. 

[jingle.boy]

I had only seen the replays as the end-of-game summary on TV when I made my last comment.  Seeing the outcome and more review of it, it is a bit much from Wilson.  Aggressive contact is one thing, but it needs to be a bit more controlled.  You can lay people out (Byfuglien has been doing it all playoffs) without the injury/head contact.

For sure, I'm all for good, clean, aggressive hits, but the NHL really needs to start cracking down and anytime there is head contact fine or suspend accordingly. Guys will adjust and start taking the body and not the head.

My concern has always been (and this goes for the NFL too) the responsibilities of the hit-ee.  Clearly this isn't the case with Wilson/Aston-Reese last night, but if it is movement by the hit-ee at the last split second that creates the head-shot, why is the hitter held responsible for what would have otherwise been (in all likelihood) a clean hit?

[Nick]

I had only seen the replays as the end-of-game summary on TV when I made my last comment.  Seeing the outcome and more review of it, it is a bit much from Wilson.  Aggressive contact is one thing, but it needs to be a bit more controlled.  You can lay people out (Byfuglien has been doing it all playoffs) without the injury/head contact.

For sure, I'm all for good, clean, aggressive hits, but the NHL really needs to start cracking down and anytime there is head contact fine or suspend accordingly. Guys will adjust and start taking the body and not the head.

My concern has always been (and this goes for the NFL too) the responsibilities of the hit-ee.  Clearly this isn't the case with Wilson/Aston-Reese last night, but if it is movement by the hit-ee at the last split second that creates the head-shot, why is the hitter held responsible for what would have otherwise been (in all likelihood) a clean hit?

To me it comes down to whether a player maintains what they were doing, or actively makes the hit worse on themselves. In this case Reese did clearly see the hit coming a moment before it did, but didn't have time to do anything except maybe brace himself a little bit. Certainly lifting up a bit would have protected his head, but on this case that onus is not on him. On the other hand had he been standing tall and lowered himself right as he saw the hit coming, then yes, I believe he would be partially to blame for the outcome.

I watched this hit a bunch of times, and found a new opinion with every angle. I truly to not believe Wilson targeted the head. I think he wanted to deliver a devastating hit, but I think he meant for it to be shoulder to shoulder. That said, the contact was made, there was an element of charging there as Carcillo pointed out, and I think a suspension of 1-3 games is justified, especially since their was no penalty in the game.

[mikeyd23]

To me it comes down to whether a player maintains what they were doing, or actively makes the hit worse on themselves. In this case Reese did clearly see the hit coming a moment before it did, but didn't have time to do anything except maybe brace himself a little bit. Certainly lifting up a bit would have protected his head, but on this case that onus is not on him. On the other hand had he been standing tall and lowered himself right as he saw the hit coming, then yes, I believe he would be partially to blame for the outcome.

I watched this hit a bunch of times, and found a new opinion with every angle. I truly to not believe Wilson targeted the head. I think he wanted to deliver a devastating hit, but I think he meant for it to be shoulder to shoulder. That said, the contact was made, there was an element of charging there as Carcillo pointed out, and I think a suspension of 1-3 games is justified, especially since their was no penalty in the game.

Nick, I think I agree with your overall assessment, I guess my larger point is that I'd like to see the element of intent taken out of the analysis all together.

Did the hitter make contact with the head? If yes - Did the hit-ee make some sort of obvious move to be struck in the head? If no - then fine and/or suspend appropriately depending on the players track record. It should be that simple.

[jingle.boy]

I think I'm somewhere in between the two of you.  Perhaps a message does need to be sent (to and THRU Wilson) of "control how you hit a little bit better folks... if you can't SAFELY make a big hit, then you shouldn't be trying to make a big hit".

Scott Stevens would not fare well in today's league.   

[mikeyd23]

I think I'm somewhere in between the two of you.  Perhaps a message does need to be sent (to and THRU Wilson) of "control how you hit a little bit better folks... if you can't SAFELY make a big hit, then you shouldn't be trying to make a big hit".

Scott Stevens would not fare well in today's league.   

I think we are past the point of saying "control how you hit a little better". I think the league needs to disciple all shots to the head, regardless of perceived intent, the only exception being, like you mentioned, when the hit-ee essentially causes the head contact, but that should be the exception not the usual.

They tried to do it with slashing this year, I have absolutely no idea why they wouldn't try to crack down on head shots in a similar manner, knowing all we now know about brain trauma. Like I said, I think the NHL is setting itself up horribly for a major class-action in the not too distance future, if they were smart they'd try to take a proactive approach to mitigating the issue.

[King Postwhore]

[axeman90210]

I think I'm somewhere in between the two of you.  Perhaps a message does need to be sent (to and THRU Wilson) of "control how you hit a little bit better folks... if you can't SAFELY make a big hit, then you shouldn't be trying to make a big hit".

Scott Stevens would not fare well in today's league.   

What are you talking about, every one of these would be fine by today's standards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

I'm pretty sure Ron Francis is still trying to find the bench

[King Postwhore]

I miss the days of Cam Neely dragging Claude Lemieux like a rag doll throwing him against the boards then pummeling him with a thousand punches.

[jingle.boy]

I think I'm somewhere in between the two of you.  Perhaps a message does need to be sent (to and THRU Wilson) of "control how you hit a little bit better folks... if you can't SAFELY make a big hit, then you shouldn't be trying to make a big hit".

Scott Stevens would not fare well in today's league.   

What are you talking about, every one of these would be fine by today's standards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

I'm pretty sure Ron Francis is still trying to find the bench

I love the color commentator comments:

"Perfect body check"
"Just a good, solid, clean, hard hit"

Dear lord... every single one of those was a head-shot.

The thing I hate is that those hits on Kariya and Lindross brought an early end to each's career.

[pg1067]

To me it comes down to whether a player maintains what they were doing, or actively makes the hit worse on themselves. In this case Reese did clearly see the hit coming a moment before it did, but didn't have time to do anything except maybe brace himself a little bit. Certainly lifting up a bit would have protected his head, but on this case that onus is not on him. On the other hand had he been standing tall and lowered himself right as he saw the hit coming, then yes, I believe he would be partially to blame for the outcome.

I watched this hit a bunch of times, and found a new opinion with every angle. I truly to not believe Wilson targeted the head. I think he wanted to deliver a devastating hit, but I think he meant for it to be shoulder to shoulder. That said, the contact was made, there was an element of charging there as Carcillo pointed out, and I think a suspension of 1-3 games is justified, especially since their was no penalty in the game.

Nick, I think I agree with your overall assessment, I guess my larger point is that I'd like to see the element of intent taken out of the analysis all together.

Did the hitter make contact with the head? If yes - Did the hit-ee make some sort of obvious move to be struck in the head? If no - then fine and/or suspend appropriately depending on the players track record. It should be that simple.

According to the video that the DPS issued with the Doughty suspension, that's how this is supposed to work.  Whether there was intent to make contact with the head doesn't matter (again, according to that video), although it might be taken into account in assessing a suspension versus a fine or determining how may games the suspension will be.  What seems to me to be determinative in this case is that dude left his feet to deliver the hit (as evidenced by the fact that he essentially ended up on the bench after the hit).

I miss the days of Cam Neely dragging Claude Lemieux like a rag doll throwing him against the boards then pummeling him with a thousand punches.

This makes me want to go find and watch (again) the video of the Red Wings v. Avs line brawl from the mid-90s.

[mikeyd23]

According to the video that the DPS issued with the Doughty suspension, that's how this is supposed to work.  Whether there was intent to make contact with the head doesn't matter (again, according to that video), although it might be taken into account in assessing a suspension versus a fine or determining how may games the suspension will be.  What seems to me to be determinative in this case is that dude left his feet to deliver the hit (as evidenced by the fact that he essentially ended up on the bench after the hit).

If that's the case, I wouldn't have an issue today with Wilson's hit last night because he wouldn't have been playing in the game last night. If the league actually did that, Wilson would have been suspended for his previous head shots this post-season.

[Nick]

I think I'm somewhere in between the two of you.  Perhaps a message does need to be sent (to and THRU Wilson) of "control how you hit a little bit better folks... if you can't SAFELY make a big hit, then you shouldn't be trying to make a big hit".

Scott Stevens would not fare well in today's league.   

What are you talking about, every one of these would be fine by today's standards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

I'm pretty sure Ron Francis is still trying to find the bench

I love the color commentator comments:

"Perfect body check"
"Just a good, solid, clean, hard hit"

Dear lord... every single one of those was a head-shot.

The thing I hate is that those hits on Kariya and Lindross brought an early end to each's career.

Video was blurry, but at least in most cases the player had the puck, but for Kariya... man, that was fucking awful.

[jingle.boy]

This makes me want to go find and watch (again) the video of the Red Wings v. Avs line brawl from the mid-90s.

1987... Montreal v Philly - PRE GAME!!!  with no officials to break 'em up.

[King Postwhore]

I love this site.

https://www.hockeyfights.com/

[pg1067]

This makes me want to go find and watch (again) the video of the Red Wings v. Avs line brawl from the mid-90s.

1987... Montreal v Philly - PRE GAME!!!  with no officials to break 'em up.

Claude Lemieux with his famous Turtle Maneuver, but it was pretty tame compared to the Good Friday game a few years earlier.

[KevShmev]

I thought Wilson's hit in Game 2 was fine (the Pen turned his head into him at the last second because he saw Ovechkin coming), but last night's was ugly.  That has to be a suspension.

[King Postwhore]

GGRRRRRRRRRRR

[TAC]

WTF??
Can Mookie Betts skate?

[TAC]

Wow! That was ugly.

[King Postwhore]

Way to set the tone at home B's.

[TAC]

I can't even flip over to the Sox or the Celts either.

[jingle.boy]

I can't even flip over to the Sox or the Celts either.

Sucks to be you!   

[King Postwhore]

Troll Alert!!!

[TAC]

.

[Accelerando]

BOLTS!!!