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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: PwnsomeWin on June 29, 2014, 05:54:30 AM
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The fact that I love Prophets of War is probably amazing enough on this forum. But what's really odd is that I never get sick of it. In fact, it just keeps getting better. A few months ago, it lingered just below my top 10; 12 or something. Right now, it's #4. FOUR.
Also I'd like to ask why this song is hated so much. That is all.
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I don't understand my love for Prophets of War
Neither do I.
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The song's got an infectious beat, it's catchy and melodic all around and it has a stellar performance by James LaBrie. I hope that helps you understand your love for the song at least a bit. ;D
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Funny thing for me is, I probably like this song, or dislike it less, more than most, yet I still consider it one of their 10-15 worst/least best studio album songs.
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The song's got an infectious beat, it's catchy and melodic all around and it has a stellar performance by James LaBrie. I hope that helps you understand your love for the song at least a bit. ;D
Yes. Cool riffs. Excellent performance by LaBrie. It also helps that I agree with the message.
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My favorite song from my least favorite album. I like it a lot, actually.
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I like it. Good driving song, too.
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It's also the song where they just threw as many different experiments into the pot as possible, and yet it still feels cohesive. I mean, there's the group vocals, the Queen vocals, the rap and the dance beat, at least. I don't absolutely love the song, but the more I listen to Systematic Chaos the more some of the songs start to stale and the more it becomes apparent that Prophets of War simply refuses to stale and in fact has probably improved over time.
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It's ok, I don't really have anything against it. It's pretty forgettable to me. I don't really care for Systematic Chaos as a whole, and this is just one song in a group a forgettable ones on the album. I think for me, the album gets overshadowed by the other ones and this being a forgettable song (on a forgettable album, no less) doesn't really help its case. I really do have to listen to the entire album again straight through, though. It's been a while.
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Ranking it as a top five Dream Theater song seems a bit extreme to me, but I do think it's a great song.
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Who actually wrote the lyrics? They are the main reason I don't particularly like the song.
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JLB wrote the lyrics to PoW.
I think this song is awesome! It probably wouldn't make my top 20 but that's only because there are so many other amazing songs. It, along with the rest of SC, sounds like a song they had fun writing and playing.
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Who actually wrote the lyrics? They are the main reason I don't particularly like the song.
You know, you bring up a valid and interesting point. JLB's two forays into political lyrics (POW and Sacrificed Sons) both present views that I pretty strongly disagree with. For whatever strange reason it's never bothered me too much—I still like both songs, though "God on high, our mistake" in SS bothers me to some degree—but I certainly understand why someone else would.
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I haven't listened to this song in ages. I remember the Portnoy spoken part that was not awesome at all and the profit/prophet wordplay.
8 years ago (!!!) when Systematic Chaos was about to be released someone posted fake lyrics to the song, and they were absolutely hilarious. I hope someone remembers. :heart
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Why would you be so upset at a POV about a senseless act. No matter where a senseless act happens I question why a human being or a supposed deity would do or allow such a thing.
Talking about SS.
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Why would you be so upset at a POV about a senseless act. No matter where a senseless act happens I question why a human being or a supposed deity would do or allow such a thing.
Talking about SS.
Your brand new floor
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DL I am totally missing your point but I'm :lol because I'm a fool to miss it! :lol
Also that question was aimed at425. maybe that was the confusion. Got to get my butt to bed. Later!
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Why would you be so upset at a POV about a senseless act. No matter where a senseless act happens I question why a human being or a supposed deity would do or allow such a thing.
Talking about SS.
The part of that line I don't like is "our mistake." It carries the implication that 9/11 was somehow the fault of America or of mankind in general.
Edit: I should say that aside from that the lyrics to SS are just astounding, simply fantastic. It's only the two words "our mistake" that bother me.
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I love Prophets of War aswell; so unique. ;)
And I'm not sure if I'm alone on this one, but I also think the MP spoken part is one of the best and most epic experimental moments in DTs music which is why I think it can be great to take risks and try a few experimental ideas sometimes.
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Why would you be so upset at a POV about a senseless act. No matter where a senseless act happens I question why a human being or a supposed deity would do or allow such a thing.
Talking about SS.
The part of that line I don't like is "our mistake." It carries the implication that 9/11 was somehow the fault of America or of mankind in general.
I take it as meaning the mistake is humanity killing/fighting each other, causing our own demise, as suggested by the next line of the verse. "Will mankind be extinct?" I highly doubt DT/JLB would imply it was America's fault.
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^^^^ my interpretation as well ^^^^^^^
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I don't understand my love for Prophets of War
Neither do I.
You're quick man, well played. My thoughts exactly on the thread title.
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Why would you be so upset at a POV about a senseless act. No matter where a senseless act happens I question why a human being or a supposed deity would do or allow such a thing.
Talking about SS.
The part of that line I don't like is "our mistake." It carries the implication that 9/11 was somehow the fault of America or of mankind in general.
I take it as meaning the mistake is humanity killing/fighting each other, causing our own demise, as suggested by the next line of the verse. "Will mankind be extinct?" I highly doubt DT/JLB would imply it was America's fault.
That's how I took it as well and why I asked 425.
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I've always liked Prophets Of War. I maintain that the production/mix/mastering (whichever's to blame) lets the song down when the riff comes in @1:14, which I feel ought to be absolutely towering the first time it appears but as it is is a little underwhelming.
Also, I could do without the intrusion of the narrative vocals from MP :-X
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One of the few good songs on this album. I've always liked it, especially that big riff at 1:14 and the chants from the fans they brought in.
Plus it has a danceable beat :riskybiz:
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I don't understand my love for Prophets of War
Neither do I.
C'mon man, you really think I didn't see that coming? :P
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The part of that line I don't like is "our mistake." It carries the implication that 9/11 was somehow the fault of America or of mankind in general.
I take it as meaning the mistake is humanity killing/fighting each other, causing our own demise, as suggested by the next line of the verse. "Will mankind be extinct?" I highly doubt DT/JLB would imply it was America's fault.
That's pretty much how I took it (I did say "or of mankind in general," after all). It still doesn't sit right with me, because it says "our mistake" as an inclusive statement that seemingly includes all of humanity. I'm firmly of the persuasion that the blame for 9/11 should be directed exclusively at the terrorists who carried out the attacks and those who taught them the doctrines that led them to do so ("words they preach I can't relate/if God's true love are acts of hate"), so anything that even implies a more general target for the blame, as the word "our" does in that context, just makes me feel rather uncomfortable. 9/11 was not an indicator of "we're all killing each other, oh the mistake of mankind," it was a violent act committed by a specific group of evil individuals.
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One of the few good songs on this album. I've always liked it, especially that big riff at 1:14 and the chants from the fans they brought in.
Plus it has a danceable beat :riskybiz:
Here is the dance remix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCdedrXu1wI
Anybody recognize the guy that made that video?
More importantly, where can we get the dance remix?
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I really wish this song didn't exist.
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This song is in a constant battle with Burning My Soul for worst DT song. But I'm glad to see someone actually likes it.
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Burning My Soul isn't that bad.
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Burning My Soul isn't that bad.
I admit I only listened to it once, but once was enough...
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What did you find so repellant about Burning My Soul that you literally listened to it only one time?
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It's silly for sure, but not cringeworthy like Prophets of War.
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:lol BMS is light years better and that's not saying a whole lot. PoW has a guitar riff very similar to a Foo Fighters song called My Hero. Not very original and to be quite honest, this song doesn't even sound like DT except for JLB's vocals. Not sure what they were thinking because it's so far away from everything else on the album.
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The song is even better live.
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I love PoW for its awesome music and lyrics, the lyrics mainly because they're universal, its a precurser to Outcry I feel with its lets make a stand and fight for change. Its a rally call.
I just wish the mp spoken part wasn't there, they could've left that part instrumental, and made the JLB acoustic only part that much more somber.
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I don't understand my love for Prophets of War
Neither do I.
C'mon man, you really think I didn't see that coming? :P
I would have been more concerned if you didn't.
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The part of that line I don't like is "our mistake." It carries the implication that 9/11 was somehow the fault of America or of mankind in general.
I take it as meaning the mistake is humanity killing/fighting each other, causing our own demise, as suggested by the next line of the verse. "Will mankind be extinct?" I highly doubt DT/JLB would imply it was America's fault.
That's pretty much how I took it (I did say "or of mankind in general," after all). It still doesn't sit right with me, because it says "our mistake" as an inclusive statement that seemingly includes all of humanity. I'm firmly of the persuasion that the blame for 9/11 should be directed exclusively at the terrorists who carried out the attacks and those who taught them the doctrines that led them to do so ("words they preach I can't relate/if God's true love are acts of hate"), so anything that even implies a more general target for the blame, as the word "our" does in that context, just makes me feel rather uncomfortable. 9/11 was not an indicator of "we're all killing each other, oh the mistake of mankind," it was a violent act committed by a specific group of evil individuals.
Sometimes you never get to know exactly what the lyricist intended. 425, I don't know if you write lyrics at all or not - either way, I'm sure you can appreciate that lyrics are written by human beings. They're not completely linear stories told in a mechanical manner. In the process of writing the lyrics, the author's mind can sort of drift, wonder, and change it's outlook. You sort of move things around in your head and confuse yourself in the writing process. What I'm ultimately suggesting is that the ending section of Sacrificed Sons could be written from a different perspective than the rest of the song. Or probably more likely, the lyrics at the end are a step back to comment on the state of the world in general - the last 200 years or whatever. That is a very conclusive sounding section of the song. To me it sounds like James is taking that step back, saying "Sorry Mother Earth... (or Sorry God), we seem to do this kind of violent shit all the time, and I honestly don't know when it's gonna stop" ...Or some similar sort of thing to kind of cap off the song. "You know, this is the way the world has been... when are we gunna learn?"
I'd venture to say that JLB is naming violence in general as our mistake, and not one specific horrible act of violence. Catcha my drifta?
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and to get back to the topic. I love Prophets of War!
Quite possibly the best thing on Systematic Chaos.
simple as that really. Awesome song! I don't think they didn't anything wrong with it.
Peoples that hate on it should lighten up. hahahah. jk... or not really jk... I don't know.
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Sometimes you never get to know exactly what the lyricist intended. 425, I don't know if you write lyrics at all or not - either way, I'm sure you can appreciate that lyrics are written by human beings. They're not completely linear stories told in a mechanical manner. In the process of writing the lyrics, the author's mind can sort of drift, wonder, and change it's outlook. You sort of move things around in your head and confuse yourself in the writing process. What I'm ultimately suggesting is that the ending section of Sacrificed Sons could be written from a different perspective than the rest of the song. Or probably more likely, the lyrics at the end are a step back to comment on the state of the world in general - the last 200 years or whatever. That is a very conclusive sounding section of the song. To me it sounds like James is taking that step back, saying "Sorry Mother Earth... (or Sorry God), we seem to do this kind of violent shit all the time, and I honestly don't know when it's gonna stop" ...Or some similar sort of thing to kind of cap off the song. "You know, this is the way the world has been... when are we gunna learn?"
I'd venture to say that JLB is naming violence in general as our mistake, and not one specific horrible act of violence. Catcha my drifta?
I'm a writer, though not a writer of lyrics. I understand how it works. And I understand what James was trying to do. What I'm saying is it doesn't sit well with me because I don't like the idea of referring to mankind as a whole as being guilty of an act of violence as opposed to specifically blaming only those who are guilty. I understand full-well the sentiment behind the line—I'm not sure why everyone thinks I don't—I just don't agree with it. It makes me uncomfortable. When he says that, it makes me want to say: "No, James, not your mistakes or my mistakes! Only the mistakes of a relatively small number of madmen!"
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It's a pretty weak song on a pretty weak album.
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It's a pretty good song on a pretty good album.
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Not a big fan of it, but I don't hate it. And I danced like an idiot when I heard it live. It had to be done.
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I don't understand it, either. (IMHO) a truly awful song, on a horrible album.
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I love Prophets Of War. Great song.
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I don't understand it, either. (IMHO) a truly awful song, on a horrible album.
No, and no.
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Prophets of War never bothered me like it does with many DT fans, certainly its a weaker track on SC, but I never thought it was "bad" just not "great".
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I don't understand it, either. (IMHO) a truly awful song, on a horrible album.
:)
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It's not upper echelon DT by any stretch, but it's pretty easy on the ears and adds a nice little piece of variety to DT's songbook.
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To this day, I can't understand how a group of five overly phenomenal musicians could make such an absurdly bad song. I have tried to listen to it fully several times, but it makes me cringe so much I just have to change it every time.
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It's a brilliant song, from a musical point of view. I watched Portnoy doing the drumming for it and was blown away by the complexity of what sounded like a fairly simple beat. Love the keyboards as well!
As for the lyrics, no one should worry about them in prog. Music is first and foremost in our fine Genre.
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Oh, there is no doubt that there is some cool stuff instrumentally going on in this song, but when the ingredients do not come together to make a satisfying dish, those single ingredients being so great do not matter as much. The whole is what matters.
And I am sorry, but to many of us, lyrics DO matter. No, not as much as the music, but they are part of the equation.
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And I am sorry, but to many of us, lyrics DO matter. No, not as much as the music, but they are part of the equation.
I definitely agree with this. Lyrics are pretty important to me. They definitely can make a song much more impactful and thought provoking, as well as immersive. To me it's a lot like the dialogue in a movie or game. It can be entertaining or fun to play, but if it's filled with plot holes and stupid cliches it takes away a lot.
As far as PoW goes, I really enjoy it; Definitely moreso than CM, TDEN, Repentance, and Forsaken. I think the lyrics are alright, and the double meaning of "prophet" is rather clever.
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Sometimes you never get to know exactly what the lyricist intended. 425, I don't know if you write lyrics at all or not - either way, I'm sure you can appreciate that lyrics are written by human beings. They're not completely linear stories told in a mechanical manner. In the process of writing the lyrics, the author's mind can sort of drift, wonder, and change it's outlook. You sort of move things around in your head and confuse yourself in the writing process. What I'm ultimately suggesting is that the ending section of Sacrificed Sons could be written from a different perspective than the rest of the song. Or probably more likely, the lyrics at the end are a step back to comment on the state of the world in general - the last 200 years or whatever. That is a very conclusive sounding section of the song. To me it sounds like James is taking that step back, saying "Sorry Mother Earth... (or Sorry God), we seem to do this kind of violent shit all the time, and I honestly don't know when it's gonna stop" ...Or some similar sort of thing to kind of cap off the song. "You know, this is the way the world has been... when are we gunna learn?"
I'd venture to say that JLB is naming violence in general as our mistake, and not one specific horrible act of violence. Catcha my drifta?
I'm a writer, though not a writer of lyrics. I understand how it works. And I understand what James was trying to do. What I'm saying is it doesn't sit well with me because I don't like the idea of referring to mankind as a whole as being guilty of an act of violence as opposed to specifically blaming only those who are guilty. I understand full-well the sentiment behind the line—I'm not sure why everyone thinks I don't—I just don't agree with it. It makes me uncomfortable. When he says that, it makes me want to say: "No, James, not your mistakes or my mistakes! Only the mistakes of a relatively small number of madmen!"
Or the mistakes of people that have become to complacent in society.
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Or the mistakes of people that have become to complacent in society.
I'm sorry, I don't buy that as yet another attempt to explain away my discomfort with the line. Sure, that can be a problem and a factor, but a) that category does not include everyone, so my objection to "our" stands, and b) "people... complacent in society" did not cause 9/11, and did not cause any number of other human-caused tragedies.
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I agree with 425 on that. It doesn't sit well with me when people say "faith in humanity = lost" because someone is listening to Katy Perry instead of Pink Floyd (off the top of my head...). It seems like what should be a very heavily weighted statement, losing all hope for your race to survive and progress, but people throw it around. The notion of original sin also bugs me for a similar reason; I don't feel like I should be guilty because I was born. I don't like blaming an individual's actions on a people group or their family tree.
Saying "our mistake" does sort of imply that me or you did something wrong to induce 911, but I doubt that's what they're trying to say. Based on nothing at all, I would assume that it was just what worked with the lyrics and wasn't meant to be read into that much.
Besides all that, one of my favorite things about music is the ability to interperit lyrics in a way that I can relate to personally.
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Can't say I like this song...
And I am sorry, but to many of us, lyrics DO matter. No, not as much as the music, but they are part of the equation.
This. I don't find POW's lyrics awful (they're better than most lyrics on SC), but I'm not into political themes, and lines like "it's time to make a change" are clichéd as hell. James is at his best when writing about more personal and everyday topics IMO.
I think the lyrics are alright, and the double meaning of "prophet" is rather clever.
I find it funny that SC came out a couple of months after Type O Negative's Dead Again, which included a song called Profits of Doom that uses the same double meaning. Additionally, Peter Steele grew a beard in 2007, just like JLB :P
E: Also, Dead Again was the first album TON released after their deal with Roadrunner ended, while SC was the first RR era DT album. IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!11
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Or the mistakes of people that have become to complacent in society.
I'm sorry, I don't buy that as yet another attempt to explain away my discomfort with the line. Sure, that can be a problem and a factor, but a) that category does not include everyone, so my objection to "our" stands, and b) "people... complacent in society" did not cause 9/11, and did not cause any number of other human-caused tragedies.
Complacency does in fact lead to tragedies. The extent of which can be debated but it doesn't really seem like you want to debate. Obviously no one is saying that you aren't allowed to have you own objection. I still don't understand how you can take that line so seriously but whatever. You are clearly free to object.
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I think the lyrics are alright, and the double meaning of "prophet" is rather clever.
I find it funny that SC came out a couple of months after Type O Negative's Dead Again, which included a song called Profits of Doom that uses the same double meaning. Additionally, Peter Steele grew a beard in 2007, just like JLB :P
We've started conspiracy theories for even less than that :biggrin:
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We've started conspiracy theories for even less than that :biggrin:
Now Steven Wilson is involved too? :omg:
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I know I should hate this song because of some similarities it has with Never Enough (I really hate that song), but for some reason I don't. I like the song, not love it, but I enjoy listening to it so I get why you are puzzled.
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My interpretation of the line 'our mistake'; is more about taking responsibility on any and perhaps all levels and understanding the relevance (or irrelevance) of your actions no matter how involved or un-involved you think you are, and recognising what went wrong, appreciating the origin of the 'mistake'. Everyone always points fingers; we love scapegoats to explain away everything bad that happens to anyone. I think 'our mistake' is an attempt to step back from all the blame and just let your own choices reflect what you want the world to be like, even if what you see around you isn't reflecting those choices. Being true to yourself is the best course of action to stop these kind of travesties from continuing. And especially when it's not literally "your" individual mistake, you can still appreciate taking responsibility for your own actions (or lack of action) and for the reflections of various aspects of yourself that are occurring in society. At least.. we should be taking responsibility for ourselves like this..
We can separate it from ourselves and pretend like it's nothing to do with us, but that's just playing the blame game again. Instead or taking responsibility. You might think YOU don't need to take responsibility, but is someone else gonna willingly take that blame first? No. But if EVERYone took responsibility for themselves and understood why they make the choices that they do, and how that effects themselves and the world around them. Then we wouldn't find the need to blame anyone for anything.
Might be a bit of a loaded interpretation. But my gut tells me that a line about generalising humanity as making a collective mistake, would have to come from a similar perspective. So that's how I comfortably interpret that line through my own belief systems.
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Bet you'll like this version of Prophets of War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ydQH_Mw_A
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Bet you'll like this version of Prophets of War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ydQH_Mw_A
Personal favorite :tup
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Haha that's great, it can't be unheard. :P
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"The only thing
That I believe
Will help us see this through is faith
Pray they will forgive,
Forgive our arrogance,
So we can make it right,
Right what they have wronged"
This part is why I like the song, besides the first verses and the chorus.. So catchy the whole theme.. You should know why you love it so much...
PD: It's one of the songs (aside from TDoE at 1:13, SoC at 3:18 and ItPoE at 1:05) that makes me wanna dance.. :azn:
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The fact that I love Prophets of War is probably amazing enough on this forum. But what's really odd is that I never get sick of it. In fact, it just keeps getting better. A few months ago, it lingered just below my top 10; 12 or something. Right now, it's #4. FOUR.
Also I'd like to ask why this song is hated so much. That is all.
Very weird, and I can't understand why. I often try to give it another shot and just can't see it or hear it. It is in my bottom 10.
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I love this song. Top 15 for me easily. Only song I like on SC.
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"The only thing
That I believe
Will help us see this through is faith
Pray they will forgive,
Forgive our arrogance,
So we can make it right,
Right what they have wronged"
This part is why I like the song, besides the first verses and the chorus.. So catchy the whole theme.. You should know why you love it so much...
PD: It's one of the songs (aside from TDoE at 1:13, SoC at 3:18 and ItPoE at 1:05) that makes me wanna dance.. :azn:
Agreed, a very nice part of the song. The part that follows it is not nearly as nice, in my opinion. (The music is great, but MP's rap/vocal thingy... ehh...)
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I would like it better if it had different lyrics, not because I don't like them, but I they don't seem to match the music. Dancing to "Is it time to make a change / >Are we profiting from war?" seems... awkward. :-\
I like the music and I like the lyrics, but the combination doesn't fully work for me.
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I though I saw somewhere buried deeply in the liner notes that PoW, like Never Enough, was written and performed by the band "Dream Muse"