Author Topic: OtBoA and PMU - Same Song Structure (Read 12020 times)

reo73 · « **on:** June 30, 2011, 08:06:14 AM »

Someone posted this in the sticky thread but I thought it was worth it's own topic. If you listen thru all the parts of OtBoA it follows the identical song form of PMU down to all the little pre-verse, pre-chorus, and pre-solo fills plus all the outro sections. Personally, if this was a planned thing and I tend to think it is, I find it really cool! Kinda like a new beginning that is mirroring their beginning of success in '92.

EDIT: To make my point a bit more apparent here is the structure of both with time stamp written out. PMU is first and OtBoA is next:

Guitar Intro: :0 / :15
Intro w/Keys: :19 / 1:00
Intro w.Heavy Guitar: :57 / 1:28
Main Riff: 1:16 / 1:55
Main Riff w/Keys: 1:34 / 2:09
Pre Verse Transition: 1:53 / 2:23
Verse 1: 2:00 / 2:31
Verse Bridge: 2:19 / 2:45
Transition Riff: 2:39 / 2:59
Verse 2: 2:56 / 3:14
Verse Bridge: 3:15 / 3:29
Pre Chorus Music: 3:33 / 3:42
Chorus: 3:44 / 3:55
Transition Riff: 4:03 / 4:23
Verse 3: 4:13 / 4:36
Verse Bridge: 4:30 / 4:50
Pre Chorus Music: 4:50 / 5:04
Chorus: 5:09 / 5:24
Keyboard Interlude (Music Low): 5:28 / 5:52
Key Interlude w/Drums: 5:47 / 6:05
Guitar Solo (Music Up): 6:06 / 6:19
Solo Outro: 6:24 / 6:47
Chorus: 6:33 / 6:57
Chorus w/alt riff: 6:53 / 7:25
Outro Riff: 7:12 / 7:39
Outro Riff w/Keys: 7:30 / 8:07

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:10:47 AM »

Also, if you listen closely, both songs feature John Myung.

Ultimetalhead · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:13:47 AM »

I can see this album doing absolute wonders for them commercially. With another song like PMU that's relatively heavy for the roadrunner crowd, everybody wins.

Zook · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:16:32 AM »

I can definitely hear me some PMU, especially the guitar part before the chorus, but even if they did plan it that way, it's still unoriginal. I still like the song though.

tumbok · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:49:23 AM »

thread like this keeps me close to DTF.
what an observation!

bosk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:51:03 AM »

Quote from: reo73 on June 30, 2011, 08:06:14 AM

If you listen thru all the parts of OtBoA it follows the identical song form of PMU down to all the little pre-verse, pre-chorus, and pre-solo fills plus all the outro sections.

In very general terms, yes. But that description is so broad that the "similarity" doesn't really carry much meaning as far as I'm concerned.

reo73 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:55:02 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on June 30, 2011, 08:51:03 AM

Quote from: reo73 on June 30, 2011, 08:06:14 AM
If you listen thru all the parts of OtBoA it follows the identical song form of PMU down to all the little pre-verse, pre-chorus, and pre-solo fills plus all the outro sections.

In very general terms, yes. But that description is so broad that the "similarity" doesn't really carry much meaning as far as I'm concerned.

I thought that at first but give the song a listen and think of PMU the whole way thru while you are listening to it. It really is a replica down to all the the little intros and outros of each section just set to different music. I'm not knocking it, I think it is completely intentional and a cool reference to PMU. Whether there is any deep meaning to it, we can only speculate though i think it is interesting that the phrase "On the Backs Of Angels" is somewhat of an opposite connotation from "Pull me Under". Maybe there is some real meaning there.

bosk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:01:42 AM »

In related news, I'm thinking about reinstating the Octavarium subforum, but renaming it "Nuggets and Tinfoil Hats."

Mladen · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:05:47 AM »

Well, now we know why OTBOA is such a great song - it has the exact same structure as Pull me under. That's just great.

Xanthul · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:06:15 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on June 30, 2011, 09:01:42 AM

In related news, I'm thinking about reinstating the Octavarium subforum, but renaming it "Nuggets and Tinfoil Hats."

DarkLord_Lalinc · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:08:57 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on June 30, 2011, 09:01:42 AM

In related news, I'm thinking about reinstating the Octavarium subforum, but renaming it "Nuggets and Tinfoil Hats."

You're opening the gates of hell once again.

FretMuppet · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:11:18 AM »

Structure wise: Similar

Sound wise: completely different worlds

reo73 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:13:36 AM »

To make my point a bit more apparent here is the structure of both with time stamp written out. PMU is first and OtBoA is next:

Guitar Intro: :0 / :15
Intro w/Keys: :19 / 1:00
Intro w.Heavy Guitar: :57 / 1:28
Main Riff: 1:16 / 1:55
Main Riff w/Keys: 1:34 / 2:09
Pre Verse Transition: 1:53 / 2:23
Verse 1: 2:00 / 2:31
Verse Bridge: 2:19 / 2:45
Transition Riff: 2:39 / 2:59
Verse 2: 2:56 / 3:14
Verse Bridge: 3:15 / 3:29
Pre Chorus Music: 3:33 / 3:42
Chorus: 3:44 / 3:55
Transition Riff: 4:03 / 4:23
Verse 3: 4:13 / 4:36
Verse Bridge: 4:30 / 4:50
Pre Chorus Music: 4:50 / 5:04
Chorus: 5:09 / 5:24
Keyboard Interlude (Music Low): 5:28 / 5:52
Key Interlude w/Drums: 5:47 / 6:05
Guitar Solo (Music Up): 6:06 / 6:19
Solo Outro: 6:24 / 6:47
Chorus: 6:33 / 6:57
Chorus w/alt riff: 6:53 / 7:25
Outro Riff: 7:12 / 7:39
Outro Riff w/Keys: 7:30 / 8:07

champbassist · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:32:51 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on June 30, 2011, 08:51:03 AM

Quote from: reo73 on June 30, 2011, 08:06:14 AM
If you listen thru all the parts of OtBoA it follows the identical song form of PMU down to all the little pre-verse, pre-chorus, and pre-solo fills plus all the outro sections.

In very general terms, yes. But that description is so broad that the "similarity" doesn't really carry much meaning as far as I'm concerned.

That's what I was thinking.

KevShmev · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:14:42 PM »

I don't hear much similarity between these two songs.

Even if the intros are of similar length, they are completely different. While the new songs goes through various changes, most of the Pull Me Under intro is built around the main guitar lead, just building and building, before breaking into the heavy riff that leads into the first verse.

TheGreatPretender · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:25:07 PM »

I thought the whole vibe of the song felt a little bit like a modern day Pull Me Under. Structure included, but even the tone of it, and the style of song itself.

I don't know about doing well commercially though. I mean, the mainstream music community is in a pretty pathetic state right now, so it's definitely not gonna be another "Hit" like PMU, but the extra attention they got with the whole MP ordeal and looking for the new drummer, this album should do well in terms of the kinds of sales they usually make.
Of course, it's always possible I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. But I wouldn't expect to hear it on the radio, at least not around here.

reo73 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:50:28 PM »

Quote from: KevShmev on June 30, 2011, 12:14:42 PM

I don't hear much similarity between these two songs.

Even if the intros are of similar length, they are completely different. While the new songs goes through various changes, most of the Pull Me Under intro is built around the main guitar lead, just building and building, before breaking into the heavy riff that leads into the first verse.

I'm not saying the music 'sounds' similar, what I am saying is the structure or form of the song is an identical replica. Maybe it's just me but I find it too coincidental to be a happening of chance and I think there was an intentional reference in this regard to PMU and it's really cool. Perhaps no one really cares though; thought this would generate much more interest.

darkshade · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:33:32 PM »

This thread...

Jaffa · « **Reply #18 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:35:25 PM »

^ It's a reasonable observation...

Brand X · « **Reply #19 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM »

When you've written so many tunes over the years, you are bound to get elements of similarity.........it's just coincidence. I can't see they guys all sitting round in the dead of night discussing how to make PMU pt 2.....it's not their style.......

It's not Bon Jovi where every song on every album is repeated ad-nauseum! Lol

Zook · « **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:52:39 PM »

Quote from: Brand X on June 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM

When you've written so many tunes over the years, you are bound to get elements of similarity.........it's just coincidence. I can't see they guys all sitting round in the dead of night discussing how to make PMU pt 2.....it's not their style.......

It's not Bon Jovi where every song on every album is repeated ad-nauseum! Lol

Yeah, but that's his life.

reo73 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 30, 2011, 06:42:29 PM »

Quote from: Brand X on June 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM

When you've written so many tunes over the years, you are bound to get elements of similarity.........it's just coincidence. I can't see they guys all sitting round in the dead of night discussing how to make PMU pt 2.....it's not their style.......

It's not Bon Jovi where every song on every album is repeated ad-nauseum! Lol

I disagree. The PMU song structure has too many elements for it to be a chance happening and this new song replicates it EXACTLY down to all the little fills between verses and choruses. I don't see that as coincidental.

jmplayer · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:31:06 PM »

Both PMU and OtBoA have the key signatures of E minor and A minor

PMU
A minor in chorus only
E minor for everything else

OtBoA
A minor for chorus and other half of instrumental section
E minor for everything else

Jamesman42 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:32:26 PM »

Quote from: Zook on June 30, 2011, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: Brand X on June 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM
When you've written so many tunes over the years, you are bound to get elements of similarity.........it's just coincidence. I can't see they guys all sitting round in the dead of night discussing how to make PMU pt 2.....it's not their style.......

It's not Bon Jovi where every song on every album is repeated ad-nauseum! Lol

Yeah, but that's his life.

*giggles*

bosk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:34:08 PM »

Yes, but the giggles--they do nothing.

CrimsonSunrise · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:40:24 PM »

I just don't hear it, the similarities.

ddtonfire · « **Reply #26 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:25:20 PM »

I agree; I feel like it's like they wrote OtBoA with PMU in mind, following the exact structure. But still, great song!

tri.ad · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:13:42 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on June 30, 2011, 09:01:42 AM

In related news, I'm thinking about reinstating the Octavarium subforum, but renaming it "Nuggets and Tinfoil Hats."

I'm only in favour of it if you're able to make it disappear from the front page of the forum.

KevShmev · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:20:07 AM »

Quote from: reo73 on June 30, 2011, 06:42:29 PM

Quote from: Brand X on June 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM
When you've written so many tunes over the years, you are bound to get elements of similarity.........it's just coincidence. I can't see they guys all sitting round in the dead of night discussing how to make PMU pt 2.....it's not their style.......

It's not Bon Jovi where every song on every album is repeated ad-nauseum! Lol

I disagree. The PMU song structure has too many elements for it to be a chance happening and this new song replicates it EXACTLY down to all the little fills between verses and choruses. I don't see that as coincidental.

Exactly? Really? I am pretty sure On the Backs of Angels does not cut off suddenly.

If you want to think they did apparently did this on purpose, then that is your right, but it is also our right to think that you are out of your mind for thinking so.

CrimsonSunrise · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:30:21 AM »

I found the last 2 measures of the song sound very similiar to the last couple measures of Sacrificed Sons

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #30 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:38:49 AM »

No, guys, in all seriousness Reo's right. He's not some unseasoned poster with a weird theory. The structures of OTBOA and PMU are eerily similar. The choruses even have guitar leads before them in both songs.

CrimsonSunrise · « **Reply #31 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:44:57 AM »

Quote from: ReaPsTA on July 01, 2011, 12:38:49 AM

No, guys, in all seriousness Reo's right. He's not some unseasoned poster with a weird theory. The structures of OTBOA and PMU are eerily similar. The choruses even have guitar leads before them in both songs.

So, there are structure and key similarities. They sound like 2 completely different tunes to me. So much so I'm not even seeing the connection others are. So if a basic rock band does multiple songs in 2/4 and the same key.....does that make them the same songs? I admit... with a band like DT, who change tempos so often within a song, it's more peculiar to have two so closely structured.

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #32 on:** July 01, 2011, 12:55:29 AM »

Quote from: CrimsonSunrise on July 01, 2011, 12:44:57 AM

Quote from: ReaPsTA on July 01, 2011, 12:38:49 AM
No, guys, in all seriousness Reo's right. He's not some unseasoned poster with a weird theory. The structures of OTBOA and PMU are eerily similar. The choruses even have guitar leads before them in both songs.

So, there are structure and key similarities. They sound like 2 completely different tunes to me. So much so I'm not even seeing the connection others are. So if a basic rock band does multiple songs in 2/4 and the same key.....does that make them the same songs? I admit... with a band like DT, who change tempos so often within a song, it's more peculiar to have two so closely structured.

Pretty much.

Honestly, even if Petrucci just came out and said they copied the structure of Pull Me Under, I'd be like "hey, everyone loved OTBOA, smart move Mr. Petrucci." It's the not knowing that's weird. And if it was coincidental, then I don't know what to think of that weirdness.

Addy · « **Reply #33 on:** July 01, 2011, 01:11:38 AM »

Yeah, this is what I noticed during my first listening. Both songs are very similar structure-wise. But musically, I think OTBOA is way heavier and different, although some riffs also remind me of PMU.

CrimsonSunrise · « **Reply #34 on:** July 01, 2011, 01:16:59 AM »

I'm going to have to go back tomorrow and listen to PMU again (one of my least fav. DT tunes) As far as I can remember, it has nowhere NEAR the pronounced keyboards or all over the place drumming that OTBoA's has. I could be very well wrong though

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Author Topic: OtBoA and PMU - Same Song Structure (Read 12020 times)