Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Train of Naught]

After one listen, I think I don't like this album, but it's still an "I think..", I wanna give it one or two more tries at the very least.

I will admit Invasion is a great tune, loving this one. I think Carousel I may skip on the next listen, that one does absolutely nothing for me. Prosthetic has some great riffs but I don't like the chorus (and most of the vocals at that). The Strain is my second favourite, pretty good, not mind-blowing but maybe better on revisit. Canary Yellow is one of the weaker tracks imo, but nothing offensively meh. Only Stars is actually great, wish it was a bit longer and could turn into a full track.

Now Messiah Complex takes up such a huge chunk of the album, and has some great moments, but the description I saw elsewhere (I think in this thread) described it perfectly for me. "Every 3 seconds they are trying to outdo the previous 3 seconds", just seems like an endless contest against themselves to throw new ideas in. The Host/Clear reprise is awesome, the Cockroach King one a bit less so but I still dig the theme reprisals in this track overall.. but for such a long track I'm not sure if I find it worthwhile.

Meh.. maybe better than Visions, but not very impressed with this album, especially considering I'm a big fan of Vector (except for Nil By Mouth, which is probably the track that comes closest to the sound on Virus?)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Love the new album. Ray's incredible.

Only complaint is yeah, we've gone from "Free Ray" to "Free Diego".

[me7]

I found that Messiah Complex gets more fun with each listen. Originally I was very overwhelmed and thought that Haken "jumped the shark" with this one. But all its intricacies are so much fun to uncover over time. I now think it was the right decision for their audience.

[devieira73]

My opinion about this album:
Prosthetic, Invasion and Carousel are a very strong run to begin the album, being Carousel awesome! (by the way, I didn’t hear the TOOL similarities at all in this one – and I’m a TOOL fan).
The Strain has a cool Fates Warning vibe in some points, it's a good song, but it's my second least favorite from the album.
Canary Yellow is very, very good, with that electronic/atmospheric side of Haken.
Messiah Complex is also awesome and is the perfect prog-djent-metal epic. Yes, It's relentless almost all the time, it don't have a lot of dynamics, but it works as it is. Interesting how all the Haken epics are so different from each other and I think this one it’s not what you would expect from them as a epic.
Only Stars is the only song I don’t care. I got the Clear melodies, but still...
Compared to Vector, I think Virus is a bit better because of the more diversity, added by songs like Invasion and Canary Yellow and by having an awesome epic like Messiah Complex. But Vector is also an excellent album, I do think its run from Clear to Nil by Mouth is still incredible! And the Vector overall production, mix and mastering is better. Heavy to the point and with the keyboards more present.
And just for reference, my Haken’s favourite phase is still The Mountain-Restored-Affinity.

[Northern Lion]

I found that Messiah Complex gets more fun with each listen. Originally I was very overwhelmed and thought that Haken "jumped the shark" with this one. But all its intricacies are so much fun to uncover over time. I now think it was the right decision for their audience.

Also, when taken in context of the concept of and story progression of who the Cockroach King is, the song and it's structure make perfect sense.  It's as varied and eratic as a mentally ill tyrant should be.

And I love it!

[faizoff]

Listened to the stream, liking it on first impression. I can imagine how some long time fans of the band are a bit miffed about it. The sound is definitely a progression from Vector which is when I became a fan of the band. I like the harsh guitar tone and how front and center they are along with the drums and bass. The keyboards add a nice texture on this album.


Will have to dig in the stream while my mediabook arrives.

[pfillion]

Carousel is sooo good   

[Elite]

That's the track that did nothing for me on first listen

Unless you're talking about this Carousel, which is fantastic.

[emtee]

I like every song except for Messiah Complex...so far.

For me, it's similar to BtBaM where I can't seem to grab onto any part long enough for it to sink in. The musicianship is insane but I don't enjoy listening to insanity.

[NoseofNicko]

I think Carousel I may skip on the next listen, that one does absolutely nothing for me.

Are you really gonna give up on a song after ONE listen?

[NoFred]

Carousel is sooo good   

It is!

[cramx3]

I like the flow from The Strain to Canary Yellow

[Elite]

I like every song except for Messiah Complex...so far.

For me, it's similar to BtBaM where I can't seem to grab onto any part long enough for it to sink in. The musicianship is insane but I don't enjoy listening to insanity.

I’m tempted to say the musiciansip here is even more insane than on ay BTBAM album.

[Evermind]

Initial thought after just one listen:

Holy shit The Strain is insane

and probably the best track on the record, again, after one listen.

I love you. This is my favourite track.

[Buddyhunter1]

A couple listens in and I'm not really sure what to think of it yet. Seems about on-par with Vector, though that album at least had the amazing one-two punch of Puzzle Box and Veil. Nothing on this album quite reaches that height, I don't think. Some random thoughts:

Prosthetic has grown on me a lot since it was first released; it's a really fun, energetic banger. It reminds me more of TOT-era Dream Theater than more modern, djenty prog metal bands, which is a plus in my book.

Carousel sounds absolutely nothing like Tool except for the clean guitar in the first minute. If there's anything that it reminds me of, the first heavy riff is almost a dead-ringer for Burn After Reading by Circus Maximus. Random comparison and I highly doubt it's intentional.

I'm a bit confused by everyone citing The Strain as the best song on the album - I hardly remember anything about it and it kinda seems like the most inconsequential song of the lot. Could grow on me though.

[Nachtmerrie]

Two listens so far. First one combined with Vector, second one just Virus.

I really liked Vector but I'm loving Virus so far. Messiah Complex is a lot to digest and I need some time on that one but I love every song from Prosthetic to Canary Yellow. The flow of Virus is definitely beter compared to Vector.

Ross is the allstar of the album for me. I love the diversity in his voice on this one while he was the main reason it took me some time to really get into their pre-Affinity albums.

Diego's keys could have been a bit more upfront in the mix but I guess it makes sense to be guitar heavy when the guy who mixed the album used to play at Riff Headquarters.

Final thought: six albums in just over ten years and what a journey it has been so far. I'm curious what more this amazing band will bring us in the future.

 

[Dedalus]

After a few years, I listen to the first two albums again.
Curious how I had forgotten some things, especially in Aquarius. I didn't remember the bad growling in "The Point of No Return" (Mike Portnoy feelings  ). And I didn't remember that the Djent's chugs were already there from the beginning, here and there.

The cool thing was that I had a lot of fun listening to Aquarius. I thought the album was better than I remembered, and better than Visions. My perception of the second record was exactly as I expected. The record is how I remembered it.
I think that having listened to the two albums in a row may have affected my Visions appreciation a little, in the end I was a little tired of it.

Aquarius is a better record than I remembered and Visions is a good record, but it is not brilliant and a bit repetitive / cliché. The albums are stylistically similar, but I think the songwriting of the first one pleases me more.

Finally, three observations:

- I really like MacLean's participation in Haken. Great bass lines (especially the fretless ones  ).
- Sun is an incredible song.
- The vocal melodies at various times are very similar. Unless you listen to these records hundreds of times, you can confuse some vocal melodies. At least it happens to me.

Next: The Mountain. I will listen just to follow the discography, because I remember it very well, and it is a masterpiece!

[IDontNotDoThings]

I like every song except for Messiah Complex...so far.

For me, it's similar to BtBaM where I can't seem to grab onto any part long enough for it to sink in. The musicianship is insane but I don't enjoy listening to insanity.

For the record, I don't like BTBAM either.

[devieira73]

Finally, three observations:

- I really like MacLean's participation in Haken. Great bass lines (especially the fretless ones  ).

A point that surprisingly it's not brought very often... Conner is excellent, super technical, but MacLean had a lot more memorable bass lines.

[mike099]

So I have two old iPod Classics.


If I buy a download from Amazon, which I do quite a lot, when I download it on my Amazon Music downloader, it used to also send it right to my iTunes. It doesn't seem to do that anymore, but I just go into my Amazon Music folder, and click and drag the files into iTunes. Then load them onto my iPod.

I bought the album thru Amazon and it downloaded to my phone automatically.  The songs are now on my pc c drive.  Do I need something else to get the songs to iTunes so that I can put them on my iPod and burn a cd for the truck CD player?

Sorry I am technically challenged and a fogey.

[cramx3]

So I have two old iPod Classics.


If I buy a download from Amazon, which I do quite a lot, when I download it on my Amazon Music downloader, it used to also send it right to my iTunes. It doesn't seem to do that anymore, but I just go into my Amazon Music folder, and click and drag the files into iTunes. Then load them onto my iPod.

I bought the album thru Amazon and it downloaded to my phone automatically.  The songs are now on my pc c drive.  Do I need something else to get the songs to iTunes so that I can put them on my iPod and burn a cd for the truck CD player?

Sorry I am technically challenged and a fogey.

I haven't used itunes in years, but I believe you can drag the songs into itunes and then use itunes to sync it to your ipod.

I really dig Messiah Complex.  Only one listen to the album so far, that and The Strain stood out.  I didn't totally get Carousel but being a longer and complex song, I expect multiple listens to decide how I feel.  I'm not ready to say much more about the album though, one listen is not enough to really form a good opinion on this.

[Ben_Jamin]

So I have two old iPod Classics.


If I buy a download from Amazon, which I do quite a lot, when I download it on my Amazon Music downloader, it used to also send it right to my iTunes. It doesn't seem to do that anymore, but I just go into my Amazon Music folder, and click and drag the files into iTunes. Then load them onto my iPod.

I bought the album thru Amazon and it downloaded to my phone automatically.  The songs are now on my pc c drive.  Do I need something else to get the songs to iTunes so that I can put them on my iPod and burn a cd for the truck CD player?

Sorry I am technically challenged and a fogey.

Click on File, then click on "Add File to Library", find the folder they're in and select all the songs. Usually, it'll sort them out onto the right Artist and everything.

[Train of Naught]

I think Carousel I may skip on the next listen, that one does absolutely nothing for me.

Are you really gonna give up on a song after ONE listen?

Yeah, most likely. Happens rarely, but if I find no saving graces (and it’s this long) then yeah why not?

There’s too much music I love out there, or music that’s more up my alley anyway, to worry about forcing myself to like something I didn’t like on first impression.

[mike099]

I like the flow from The Strain to Canary Yellow

Yes

The Messiah Complex is a lot to digest.  A couple of times I felt like they were going to sing The Cockroach King.

[jammindude]

I think Carousel I may skip on the next listen, that one does absolutely nothing for me.

Are you really gonna give up on a song after ONE listen?

Yeah, most likely. Happens rarely, but if I find no saving graces (and it’s this long) then yeah why not?

There’s too much music I love out there, or music that’s more up my alley anyway, to worry about forcing myself to like something I didn’t like on first impression.

I have always found the “five spin” rule to be extremely handy. It’s just enough spins to let it grow on me a bit and maybe fall in love with something that didn’t hit me right away, but it also doesn’t spend an exorbitant amount of time trying to force anything.

[Heretic]

Alright, been listening for a week or so and I'd have to say it's definitely a solid album. There are moments of absolute ecstasy (the entirety of The Strain, the gorgeous vocals at the beginning of the Messiah Complex, the interesting solo in Carousel, Only Stars' melodies, Cockroach King reprise in The Sect) but there are also moments I feel as though things either meander too much, switch to something different (and less pleasing) with too much haste, or are just a bit boring / underdeveloped. As with Vector, the instrumentation is absolutely fantastic, and the heavier direction leads to a hell of a lot of headbanging moments, but like others have mentioned, that little bit of "magic" that used to really resonate with me is only there in the occasional spurt rather than a consistent, engaging experience.

When listening to The Mountain, Aquarius, Visions, etc., I always felt a certain sense of wonder, a grandiose nature I suppose -- most of the songs had moments that were just overwhelmingly joyous, or, and I adamantly hate using this word, epic. The use of orchestration, the a capella sections, the lovely piano pieces -- all of these things made them really unique to me. When I saw them live and they played Affinity for the first time in full, it was stunning, but when they played Aquamedley it was twice as immense, and I say that despite loving Affinity. I've always felt like Haken were at their strongest when their music was a bit more 'peculiar' in a sense, and I miss that on this album (as well as Vector.) Again, the heavier direction is certainly not bad, and it makes for a fantastic live experience at times as well, but I miss that mystical-esque nature that Haken employed so pervasively in the past, and I hope their next albums veers back into that sort of exploration of sound. A lot of the moments on this album just feel like a stereotypical 2010s prog metal band rather than the band that stood out from that pack. There's nothing on here that even comes close to 4:30 - 8:30 of Drowning in the Flood, Pareidolia, 1984, the jazziness of Cockroach King -- and that's not even mentioning Celestial Elixir, Visions, or Crystallised.

Despite all of this ranting, I'd still give the album a solid 6.5/10, it's still quite good, as all Haken is, but I hope they aspire to explore a different realm of music for their next album.

[Zydar]

Carousel is growing on me, it's probably my favourite so far beside the singles I'd already heard.

[Revenge319]

How would you rank all the songs across Vector and Virus? For me, it'd probably be something like this:

1. Messiah Complex
2. Puzzle Box
3. Prosthetic
4. The Good Doctor
5. Nil by Mouth
6. Host
7. Veil
8. Only Stars
9. Carousel
10. Invasion
11. The Strain
12. Canary Yellow
13. A Cell Divides
14. Clear

It's really hard to rank these, I think all of these songs are really good.

[Evermind]

1. Puzzle Box
2. The Strain
3. Invasion
4. Host

5. Veil
6. A Cell Divides
7. The Good Doctor
8. Only Stars

9. Canary Yellow
10. Prosthetic
11. Carousel
12. Messiah Complex
13. Clear




14. Nil by Mouth

[me7]

Virus has improved my opinion on Veil. Veil is a great track, but I was disappointed that a third of Vector is dedicated to a rather generic prog metal track, as well crafted as that track may be. Especially since Vector was rather brief to begin with.

In the context of this 95min double album however, Veil is the only generic track of that kind. I now appreciate it a lot more.

[Train of Naught]

Probably something like this. Only certain about #1, #12, #13 and #14 though

1. Host
2. Puzzle Box
3. The Good Doctor
4. Invasion
5. Veil
6. A Cell Divides
7. Messiah Complex
8. Only Stars
9. The Strain
10. Prosthetic
11. Clear
12. Canary Yellow
13. Carousel
14. Nil by Mouth

[Evermind]

14. Nil by Mouth

[IDontNotDoThings]

#1. Puzzle Box
#2. Veil
#3. Host
#4. Only Stars
#5. Carousel
#6. A Cell Divides
#7. The Good Doctor
#8. Nil By Mouth
#9. Invasion
10. Prosthetic
11. Clear
12. Messiah Complex
13. Canary Yellow
14. The Strain

[Elite]

After just one listen of Virus I can’t rank them.

Ranking Vector is easy though;

1. Puzzle Box
2. Host
3. Leprous Chorus
4. Doctor Rex
5. Disjointed Instrumental
6. Dsjointed Prog ‘Epic’
7. Opener


Everybody ranking stuff under Clear is strange

[mike099]

#1. Puzzle Box
#2. Veil
#3. Host
#4. Only Stars
#5. Carousel
#6. A Cell Divides
#7. The Good Doctor
#8. Nil By Mouth
#9. Invasion
10. Prosthetic
11. Clear
12. Messiah Complex
13. Canary Yellow
14. The Strain

That canary yellow hurts my eyes, but nice touch.

Not sure about Carousel.