Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[emtee]

I messaged Ray a couple days ago. Told him I thought his performance was stellar and asked if he ever considered doing an instructional DVD where he could discuss and play through some of more complex sections. He was kind enough to reply. He thanked me for the comments and said he doesn't currently have a set up that would enable him to record, but hopes to soon. I would love to see him count and play through some of those djenty polyrhythms.

[425]

I finally got this album today (ordered from LaserCD and media mail has been badly delayed). I'm only one listen in, but as someone who was somewhat disappointed in Vector, I'm pleasantly surprised. My view could obviously change, but my first impression is that this is a significantly more compelling rendition of the Vector sound.

[Nick]

I messaged Ray a couple days ago. Told him I thought his performance was stellar and asked if he ever considered doing an instructional DVD where he could discuss and play through some of more complex sections. He was kind enough to reply. He thanked me for the comments and said he doesn't currently have a set up that would enable him to record, but hopes to soon. I would love to see him count and play through some of those djenty polyrhythms.

Rich can probably clarify on this as I believe this is correct but it's just me piecing things together.

I think Ray only has an electric kit at home to play and practice on, so when he wants to really start practicing on an acoustic kit for a tour or album he has to rent a space or studio in order to do that.

[Fritzinger]

This makes me sad. Haken are one of the best known bands in the genre now (deservedly) and Ray is a friggin master of the drums. And he hasn't got the setup and space to record an instruction video or even an acoustic set to practice whenever he wants to.

[ariich]

I think that's right Nick, I don't remember him posting a home video where he had an acoustic kit.

This makes me sad. Haken are one of the best known bands in the genre now (deservedly) and Ray is a friggin master of the drums. And he hasn't got the setup and space to record an instruction video or even an acoustic set to practice whenever he wants to.

Well, there's a lot of different factors here. Living costs in London are insane and so even people on a good steady salary generally can't reasonably afford more than a small-ish flat, depending on where they want to live. Secondly, noise pollution for the neighbours. Electric kits are considerate for your neighbours because you can keep the volume low or, if you want to crank it loud, do it with headphones. So having an electric kit at home for extra practice and then keeping your acoustic kit in a studio or wherever where you can really go wild is a pretty sensible balance in the normal course of things, it's only constraining right now due to covid.

Basically, he may well be able to afford to have the set up and might even have the space to do so at home, but chooses not to so that he's not a dick to his neighbours.

[emtee]

Keep in mind, he might not even be talking about his kit or space. You need multiple cameras and mics to do a proper video. I'd guess it's a combo of all 3. Hopefully he will be able to record soon.

[425]

A few more days in, my early impression of this album is better than it's been for any Haken album since The Mountain. A really good sign. Too early to say where it will end up, but I could see it challenging Affinity for #3 in my list. I doubt they'll ever touch Aquarius or The Mountain for me.

What I'm finally realizing, from actually bothering to look at the songwriting credits, is that the point where my interest in Haken's music dips coincides precisely with the point where the music goes from primarily being credited to Richard Henshall to always being credited to "Haken." Makes me think I should make checking out Henshall's solo album a much higher priority.

[Fritzinger]

Hen's solo album is fantastic, but if you are looking for a return to the broad, epic style of Haken's first three albums, you'll be disappointed. Cocoon is even harder to grasp and more technical than Haken's last two albums.

[Max Kuehnau]

Hen's solo album is fantastic, but if you are looking for a return to the broad, epic style of Haken's first three albums, you'll be disappointed. Cocoon is even harder to grasp and more technical than Haken's last two albums.

How so? (I don't find Haken's music to be overly technical btw, but I only listened to The Mountain and most of Vector. Be that as it may, I may find some more things to analyse I'm sure)

[me7]

Hen's solo album is fantastic, but if you are looking for a return to the broad, epic style of Haken's first three albums, you'll be disappointed. Cocoon is even harder to grasp and more technical than Haken's last two albums.

But Cocoon is more playful and humourous than recent Haken, despite being jazzy and technical.

[Elite]

Hen's solo album is fantastic, but if you are looking for a return to the broad, epic style of Haken's first three albums, you'll be disappointed. Cocoon is even harder to grasp and more technical than Haken's last two albums.

playful and humourous, despite being jazzy and technical.

Why can't jazzy or technical be playful and humorous?

[me7]

I meant the way Haken has evolved from Aquarius to Vector/Virus. Recently, Haken have dialed back the humour in their music AND gotten more syncopated and tightly arranged. Cocoon has kept the whimsical melodies of early Haken and features the syncopated guitar work of recent Haken.

Cocoon is living proof that music can be jazzy, technical, playful and humorous at the same time 

[Revenge319]

For me, the "playful and humorous" side depends on what people refer to when they say that. If they're talking about that carnival section in Celestial Elixir, then I could live without ever having that in another song, but if it's referencing stuff like the "I bet you don't remember me" section from Visions, then I would definitely enjoy more stuff like that.

[nattmorker]

For me, the "playful and humorous" side depends on what people refer to when they say that. If they're talking about that carnival section in Celestial Elixir, then I could live without ever having that in another song, but if it's referencing stuff like the "I bet you don't remember me" section from Visions, then I would definitely enjoy more stuff like that.

That's one of my all-time favorite pieces of music! I agree that the "playful and humorous" side of Haken's music is one of the first things that stood out in their music and that is very special about them.

[Revenge319]

For me, the "playful and humorous" side depends on what people refer to when they say that. If they're talking about that carnival section in Celestial Elixir, then I could live without ever having that in another song, but if it's referencing stuff like the "I bet you don't remember me" section from Visions, then I would definitely enjoy more stuff like that.

That's one of my all-time favorite pieces of music! I agree that the "playful and humorous" side of Haken's music is one of the first things that stood out in their music and that is very special about them.

To clarify, I really like that section. I just mean that if they never did something like that again, I wouldn't be all that disappointed.

[me7]

Bottom line, if you like anything Haken have released but never gave Cocoon a spin, do so as soon as possible.

[ariich]

Bottom line, if you like anything Haken have released but never gave Cocoon a spin, do so as soon as possible.

Indeed, it's fantastic.

And Vector/Virus are the only albums that don't really have that playful side overtly (although The Good Doctor has a lot of groove and personally I find the epic madness of Messiah Complex to be fun in the same way). I very much doubt that side is gone forever, it just wouldn't have really fit with those albums.

[jammindude]

That whole line of thought reminds me that one of the reasons I love Haken is because they have that ability to be so "feel good", "positive", and "uplifting".   (quotes because they tend to be relative and subjective terms)   

You know how some people are getting a little sick and tired of *all* comic book movies having to go for that "dark and gritty" feel?   I've started to feel the same way about progressive rock.   When I first discovered Dream Theater, my immediate draw was side 1 of IAW.   Balls and chunk, were followed by the beautiful Another Day, then the rather cheerful Take the Time, and even Surrounded seemed to have a very happy main riff before going into the slightly moodier Metropolis.    But the point is that I was really elated to hear a band that didn't have to be so dark and depressing all the time.

It's the same with Haken.   My first exposure was The Mountain, and other than Spock's Beard, I don't think I had heard a progressive metal album who's message was so positive and upbuilding in a very long time.   Even in the points where the music sounds dark, the message is a continuous "no matter what happens, no matter how bleak things are, you have to overcome and adapt and keep going.  You may even get in your own way sometimes.  Your own ego may trip you up.  But you can learn from that, become more humble and adaptable, and get back up and keep going."   

As I went through the rest of their catalog, I was blown away by the musical puzzle box of each piece of art (pun intended) but I am a bit put off by darker lyrical themes of Visions (even though I think it is musically one of their best).   And this is probably the reason why I love Affinity so much...because it has a bit of both, and definitely ends on one of the most positive high notes of their career.

With Vector/Virus, I feel like they've gone back to the extremely dark and gritty story approach like what Visions had.   But it's musically so strong that they get away with it.   I just hope we can get back to the nice balance of dark and happy, because when I'm listening to an entire album, I prefer some dynamics to the mood rather than just maintaining one constant "feel" throughout the entire piece.

[emtee]

So far, it's my album of the year. Absolutely brilliant album start to finish. Carousel might be my favorite song in the last 10 years. But, every song is amazing and the sound quality is perfect.

[jammindude]

I was today years old when it dawned on me that the ending “hidden track” on Vector begins with the first three notes of the vocal melody to The Cockroach King.

[GasparXR]

I was today years old when it dawned on me that the ending “hidden track” on Vector begins with the first three notes of the vocal melody to The Cockroach King.

The first three vocal notes of A Cell Divides are also from that part of Cockroach King (in a different key of course).

[Fritzinger]

So far, it's my album of the year. Absolutely brilliant album start to finish. Carousel might be my favorite song in the last 10 years. But, every song is amazing and the sound quality is perfect.

Thank you. It's my album of the year as well. 2020 has seen countless amazing releases, but no one touches Haken for me.

[Zydar]

Yeah I'd agree that it's Album Of The Year for me as well. I really like the new Pain Of Salvation too.

We'll see how the upcoming releases from Neal Morse and Fates Warning will be, but I can't see them topping Haken for me this year.

[cramx3]

Yea, I had already mentioned it had knocked out Nightwish to be my current album of the year. 

[goo-goo]

So far, it's my album of the year. Absolutely brilliant album start to finish. Carousel might be my favorite song in the last 10 years. But, every song is amazing and the sound quality is perfect.

Check out Pineapple Thief's new album "Versions of the Truth". Might have debunked Haken's throne for AOTY in my list.

[emtee]

So far, it's my album of the year. Absolutely brilliant album start to finish. Carousel might be my favorite song in the last 10 years. But, every song is amazing and the sound quality is perfect.

Check out Pineapple Thief's new album "Versions of the Truth". Might have debunked Haken's throne for AOTY in my list.

Never checked them out. Will do!

[nattmorker]

I was today years old when it dawned on me that the ending “hidden track” on Vector begins with the first three notes of the vocal melody to The Cockroach King.

The first three vocal notes of A Cell Divides are also from that part of Cockroach King (in a different key of course).

I had not noticed that! Cool!

[Pettor]

It's a good album but the variation is a bit lacking and MC stands out as the most exciting song by margins for me. POS Panther will def take the throne for AOTY right now but this is a good second place album for me. Could have been a close battle if the other songs (than MC) had more memorable stuff. Ayreon sounds dissappoiting so far sadly.

[Kram]

It's a good album but the variation is a bit lacking and MC stands out as the most exciting song by margins for me. POS Panther will def take the throne for AOTY right now but this is a good second place album for me. Could have been a close battle if the other songs (than MC) had more memorable stuff. Ayreon sounds dissappoiting so far sadly.

I agree.  I'm going to give the nod right now to POS's Panther based on the variety of the songs (and they're all really good to great)!  Virus is excellent too, but there's just something that feels "special" to me about Panther

[King Postwhore]

Why don't you Kram it!


I kid!  I kid!  It just fit!


I really like the 3 times I've Listened to Panther so it is 1-2, for me.  In time we'll see which one wins out.

[Evermind]

Fairly sure Panther will be AOTY for me unless the new Fates Warning will be as awesome as Theories of Flight. I have some hopes for Ayreon but not sure it'll be as good as Panther, we'll see. Virus would be lucky to make my Top 3 unfortunately, although it's still a good album.

[425]

Thanks everyone for the recommendations on Cocoon. I'll make sure to give it a go without expecting The Mountain 2 (which isn't really what I would've been expecting anyway).

I could definitely see Virus competing for AOTY for me (right now it and Nightwish are the main competitors, though there are several I haven't heard or am still waiting on). I'm surprised to see how many people are mentioning Panther. I've never really been able to get much into Pain of Salvation; is this the type of album that might appeal to people who weren't previously fans, or just a strong representation of their typical sound?

[Elite]

I’d say Pain of Salvation doesn’t have a typical sound, especially as this last one sounds very different from their other stuff.

[Revenge319]

Virus is easily my AOTY because it's the only 2020 album I've listened to.

[cramx3]

I should check out that PoS album, was supposed to see them this week at PP and if that festival was going to happen, I probably already would have checked out their new album.