Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[425]

I just wonder who this person is who cares enough about MP to tweet at him, but also doesn't know anything about Haken.

The only artists on that list who I think demonstrably had their profiles significantly elevated by MP would be Roine and Neal, and even there it's not about MP tweeting an endorsement, but about the fact that there are people who listened to Transatlantic because they liked DT, and then listened to Spock's Beard/The Flower Kings/Neal solo because they liked Transatlantic.

[KevShmev]

Agreed. There were definitely some of us who got into Neal and Roine thanks to Transatlantic, but they were already pretty well known within the underground prog scene (which I quickly found out when discovering them).

[Nick]

To be clear MP tweeting in support of his son's bands is not nepotism.

Next to None getting record deals, shows, tours, etc that they otherwise would aboslutely not have gotten is nepotism. You can argue all you want over whether it's the right thing or not for him to do, but it's still nepotism.

[Elite]

I agree with Nicholas.

[MinistroRaven]

But MP didn't sign N2N, the record label did. Same for show promoters and the rest. It is not like MP works on the labels or has an agency to book tours.

MP exposed (promoted) his son band, but those in POWER could still have said no.

[goo-goo]

MP exposed (promoted) his son band, but those in POWER could still have said no.

Yes and no. MP's name is still big in prog labels. He also at that time had the Jim Pitulski connection with Inside Out.  Jim was DT's manager in the early days and was Inside Out's president at the time N2N was signed IIRC. Jim did leave I/O a year or two ago.   So it might not have been a direct nepotism for I/O to sign N2N, but the influence/connections were definitely there.

[Nick]

But MP didn't sign N2N, the record label did. Same for show promoters and the rest. It is not like MP works on the labels or has an agency to book tours.

MP exposed (promoted) his son band, but those in POWER could still have said no.

Just because people could turn things down doesn't mean nepotism wasn't in play, there is an option to say no to basically anything.

I'll give you some direct examples of how MP was in direct control of things. Progressive Nation at Sea, many band conflicts, two of my big ones came on the final day when I had to choose to see Anathema OR Haken, Riverside OR Spock's Beard. Wouldn't you know both of Next to None's gigs were at times when no other shows on the ship. I'll give you one guess who had a big hand in scheduling that.

Shattered Fortress at Irving Plaza in NYC, Next to None opens the show. Sure, without Mike's influence there is an outside chance they could have gotten on anyway, but it's clear that when Mike's people booked the show it was written into the contract they'd have choice of opener and already knew who it would be. Yes, Irving Plaza could have said no deal, but no one was going to nuke what ended up being a sold out show over that.

Steve Harris does the same thing. Lauren Harris would never be opening for Iron Maiden without his direct intervention. Raven Age was at least in the genre ballpark, but you can't say that's not nepotism considering other recent opening acts are on the level of Dream Theater, Alice Cooper, and even Bullet For My Valentine.

Again, it's fair to argue that these folks should use their influence to get their kids ahead in the world, but it is clearly textbook nepotism.

[me7]

A new (German) review mentions June 26th as the release date: http://www.musikreviews.de/reviews/2020/Haken/Virus/

Most likely a mistake, but curiously the band never acknowledged  the June 19th date in any of their recent promotion videos.

[ariich]

I've not heard anything about a further delay - as far as I'm aware the plan is still the 19th.

[me7]

So... a Canadian online radio just streamed Messiah Complex...

[Northern Lion]

So... a Canadian online radio just streamed Messiah Complex...

Are they doing it more than once?  Is it OK for you to post a link if they are?

[ariich]

I'm 95% sure they shouldn't have done that, so please do not share any links here.

[Revenge319]

I'd heard about them planning to do that for a few days now... I wouldn't think they would be allowed to stream that, but either way I didn't listen to it.

[Evermind]

Yeah, I saw them advertising it on reddit. I can wait two more weeks.

[cramx3]

Is Next 2 None even a thing anymore? 

[Elite]

No.

[cramx3]

Kind of makes me feel nepotism played a big role then, sure just speculation based on what happened, but I feel a true band that worked from the ground up themselves, got a record deal, and was able to play some big shows wouldn't just phase out so quickly.

[Max Kuehnau]

maybe Nepotism Complex might have been a working title for Messiah Complex, who knows? (no, just joking)

[Elite]

Kind of makes me feel nepotism played a big role then, sure just speculation based on what happened, but I feel a true band that worked from the ground up themselves, got a record deal, and was able to play some big shows wouldn't just phase out so quickly.

Surely looks like it though.

[KevShmev]

Portnoy's kid can play, and his style is very reminiscent of his pop's, but what I heard from Next to None was awful, awful shit.  They made Adrenaline Mob sound like Led Zeppelin.

[Nick]

Portnoy's kid can play, and his style is very reminiscent of his pop's, but what I heard from Next to None was awful, awful shit.  They made Adrenaline Mob sound like Led Zeppelin.

All the kids could play. They are seriously great local (to me) talents. I will defend them as young musicians every day of the week.

What they lacked was great songwriting, which is understandable given their age, and I didn't like Thomas' vocal stylings through much of their music, particularly having a suburban white kid throwing angsty growls and shit at me.

All that said had they not been prematurely raised up by nepotism and from what I understand a couple of other wealthy families no one would know about them right now, which is fine. They would have spent time working on their songwriting, getting things together like so many young bands. And whenever they broke into a wider audience they likely would have had a much better reaction than what they got from any non-Portnoy bootlickers when they were dragged onto the national scene.

I've hung out with Thomas at Haken shows, he's an awesome dude and amazing keyboard player, and I've run into some of the other members at shows and had nice chats with them as well, and I have no problem with any of the people, but there is simply no denying in my book they were pushed into the limelight before they were properly ripened, with all the benefits and drawbacks that entails.

[gzarruk]

Nepotism? You mean a bunch of unknown teenagers that got Neal Morse and Bumblefoot to guest on their debut album didn't make it happen by their own merit?

[cramx3]

Nepotism? You mean a bunch of unknown teenagers that got Neal Morse and Bumblefoot to guest on their debut album didn't make it happen by their own merit?

  I didn't know this, since I never gave them a listen but yea, that's definitely a big sign there of it all.  And honestly, I don't really have a problem with it in general.  It's not like my parents never helped me out with something.  I got my first job out of college through my dad's former coworker.  However, I made a career out of it with my own work but everyone starts somewhere, nothing wrong with having someone help give you a head start.  At the end of the day, it's your own work that keeps you on the map.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I'm 95% sure they shouldn't have done that, so please do not share any links here.

Can we talk about the song if we did hear it though?

[Northern Lion]

I'm 95% sure they shouldn't have done that, so please do not share any links here.

I didn't know if it was legal or not here on the forum as far as pirated material goes, that's why I asked.  Of course I wouldn't want a link if it didn't have the band's blessing.  So no harm intended.

[CrimsonSunrise]

On a side note, speaking of nepotism, would we ever have heard of Jason Bonham or Sean Lennon had it not been for their Dad's fame?

[Elite]

Their fathers were not alive to promote their music.

[Nick]

On a side note, speaking of nepotism, would we ever have heard of Jason Bonham or Sean Lennon had it not been for their Dad's fame?

Their fathers were not alive to promote their music.

Yeah, that's not really nepotism. Yes, chances are the family name got them exposure and opportunity they might not otherwise have had, but there was no one really actively assisting or pulling strings for them.

And I can't speak for Sean, but Jason at least is a really good drummer who absolutely stands on his own now.

[Ben_Jamin]

Does Dweezil count?

[Fritzinger]

On a side note, speaking of nepotism, would we ever have heard of Jason Bonham or Sean Lennon had it not been for their Dad's fame?

Their fathers were not alive to promote their music.

Yeah, that's not really nepotism. Yes, chances are the family name got them exposure and opportunity they might not otherwise have had, but there was no one really actively assisting or pulling strings for them.

And I can't speak for Sean, but Jason at least is a really good drummer who absolutely stands on his own now.

Well, he does have a cover band playing his father's music. But yeah, he's in other bands as well, I know.

[Nick]

Dweezil, like the others, are more cashing in on their father's fame, music, and name recognition. And just like with classic nepotism you can draw your own line on if that is ethical or not, or what goes to far.

But at least from my understanding of nepotism that would be is Frank was still alive and gave Dweezil a spot opening for him, or a spot in his band before he was really qualified for those spots.

[Ben_Jamin]

Dweezil, like the others, are more cashing in on their father's fame, music, and name recognition. And just like with classic nepotism you can draw your own line on if that is ethical or not, or what goes to far.

But at least from my understanding of nepotism that would be is Frank was still alive and gave Dweezil a spot opening for him, or a spot in his band before he was really qualified for those spots.

Thought that as well.

So it's more Steve Harris' Daughters' band opening for Iron Maiden.

[King Postwhore]

This happens in real life so I don't see a big deal.  They may get the door open for them but they have to be good at it to stay in the business.

[Ben_Jamin]

 

This is what happens when the label decides to delay the release, that was supposed to be tomorrow.

[King Postwhore]