Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[ErHaO]

I think the whole Dany thing is just a forced ploy by the writers to make the show more "exciting". Gotta have some tension so let's have her act crazy and everyone doubt her I don't think she will actually become a mad tyrant or attempt to become one. Could be wrong, offcourse, but that's my feeling. Character consistencies are kind of overboard already, so the writers write them however they want to get the situation they think is exciting.

Not sure which direction I prefer at this point though. A happy ending with Jon again fucking his aunt and them ruling the kingdom happily until they want a sequel series will feel off. I think/hope that at least during the last episodes plot armor will disappear and they will go all season 3 on their protected asses.

Not going to check out the leaks, but the show has filmed several endings and not even the actors know which will be the true one (if Emilia Clarke is to be believed).

[MirrorMask]

I believe that's PR mumbo jumbo to blow fog in the face of spoilers seekers.

How I met your mother had an alternate ending - it was a sitcom, it required some dialog and a rewind of older scenes. Whatever Game of Thrones end, it requires a giant set, CGI dragons, battles and specific dialogue. No way they film all of that to never use it. They said that they can't produce more than 10 episodes per year and yet they find time and money to film something they will never, ever use it?

I'm not saying it's impossible. But I won't be suprised at all if once the show is done, the actors in interviews will get asked about the alternate endings and they will say "Well, there weren't really, we were told to say so".

[The Walrus]

Didn't The Walking Dead film death scenes for literally every character a few years ago, back when that Negan guy was big, to avoid people figuring out the real deal? I could believe Thrones doing this. Hell I could believe anything after Endgame's shenanigans with the trailers.

[Chino]

Didn't The Walking Dead film death scenes for literally every character a few years ago, back when that Negan guy was big, to avoid people figuring out the real deal? I could believe Thrones doing this. Hell I could believe anything after Endgame's shenanigans with the trailers.

I'm not sure about alternate death scenes, but I know they kept dead characters on the payroll and had them continue to show up on set even if they were done filming their parts. 

[The Walrus]

Didn't The Walking Dead film death scenes for literally every character a few years ago, back when that Negan guy was big, to avoid people figuring out the real deal? I could believe Thrones doing this. Hell I could believe anything after Endgame's shenanigans with the trailers.

I'm not sure about alternate death scenes, but I know they kept dead characters on the payroll and had them continue to show up on set even if they were done filming their parts.

That's wild. Also, found it.

[cramx3]

I was pretty sure GOT filmed multiple endings, at least that was rumored for a long time.  Lets not forget that last year's leak was a huge deal for HBO so it would be in their interests to do what they could to not spoil the ending.

[ErHaO]

I believe that's PR mumbo jumbo to blow fog in the face of spoilers seekers.

How I met your mother had an alternate ending - it was a sitcom, it required some dialog and a rewind of older scenes. Whatever Game of Thrones end, it requires a giant set, CGI dragons, battles and specific dialogue. No way they film all of that to never use it. They said that they can't produce more than 10 episodes per year and yet they find time and money to film something they will never, ever use it?

I'm not saying it's impossible. But I won't be suprised at all if once the show is done, the actors in interviews will get asked about the alternate endings and they will say "Well, there weren't really, we were told to say so".

Yeah, that could be, but they offcourse don't have to finalize the scenes with cgi and all. The big battles and the likes they won't film several times obviously, but scenes were a bunch of characters are together (in front of a green screen) they can do I think. These leaks are often believed to come from extras or other minor people involved, throwing them off can be effective, as they won't have an overview of all scenes or the entire production.

[Mladen]

The Simpsons also purposely leaked alternate fake endings to Who shot Mr. Burns. Those were the days.

[MirrorMask]

For the record, leaks happened anyway. I'm checking Reddit discussions and the comments "Oh no the leaks were true then" once an episode airs are plenty.

[MoraWintersoul]

For the record, leaks happened anyway. I'm checking Reddit discussions and the comments "Oh no the leaks were true then" once an episode airs are plenty.

I saw some leaks pre-EP4,

DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT MY OPINION! NOT POSTING SPOILERS, JUST WHAT I THINK OF THEM.

I thought they were leaking a fake storyline to make the actual ending more palatable in comparison once it airs. But everything from EP4 came true so we'll see.

END OF OPINION. So yeah, shit got leaked anyway, if you don't want spoilers, I'd avoid internet nerd spaces for a bit, and definitely r/freefolk.

[The Walrus]

I was really, really tempted yesterday to look at leaks for the last two episodes, given the writing in the last two episodes... but in the end I thought, what the hell, there's just two weeks left, try to avoid it.

So me being me, I'm going to continue to peruse the GoT subreddit (not freefolk) and try to avoid spoilers. Gulp.

[RuRoRul]

Yeah of course it's been long known that there are potential leaks floating out there (thankfully more limited than leaks for season 7) and some amount of information from each episode has leaked in the days before it through images, subtitle leaks etc... but I've no interest in reading them. Whether it's good or bad, finding out what happens in something for the first time by viewing as it was intended is an experience that can't be replicated.

And yeah, on the earlier subject of what was / wasn't good to have in this thread re: criticism, discussion, I can only speak for myself but I'll say that if the thread here is going to be including regular discussion of possible leaks (even if it's a *wink wink* not saying what's in the leaks but *nudge nudge*), then that's the thing that would mean it's is gonna be a no from me dawg.

[Adami]

Can we all agree not to post any leaks or spoilers here til the episode airs? I'd hate to have to avoid the only place I talk about GoT.

[The Walrus]

Yeah agreed, I don't want to read anything about spoilers or leaks. We just have 2 more weeks, if we all made it through the Endgame hype, we can do this 

[gmillerdrake]

Yeah. Let’s keep it to after current episode airs content. I think the majority of us here are pretty ‘leak’ respectful.

[The Walrus]

I did break down and check some leaks but honestly it didn't budge my excitement levels or anything... it's just more info. I really have no idea what comes next. I'm finding myself getting more and more bitter every day with the lazy excuses and the rushed episodes, though. Like, a lot of this stuff - not all, but a lot - would have way more impact if there was just more time for situations to marinate. Most of what's shown, I have no issues with - but it's just rushed and would have much more dramatic impact with the build-up they had in earlier situations. Jaime going back to Cersei, for example. Excellent dialogue there ("she's hateful - and so am I") but if Jaime had spent much more time up in the North, with or without Brienne, I think it would've been even stronger.

There's that video of Emilia Clarke kinda of wince-smiling as she says "best season ever" about season 8... gulp.

[ariich]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

[Adami]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

I'm on the same page. In the earlier seasons we rarely got battles. They were few and far between and definitely NOT what made the show the powerhouse it is today. However, the show runners seem to think that all people want are big battles (and basing on comments here and other places, they might be right) and are turning the show into that instead. I agree it's a shame, but they get what they want (huge ratings) and the people get what they want, big battles. I guess.

[cramx3]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

Yea, like the Battle for Winterfell was awesome to watch, but last episode with more story I felt like was a better episode.  It's just two polar opposite types of episodes and as much as I love a good battle, a good story might be even better.  I got to think there is more than just a battle next episode, there's such little time left to finish the story.

Also +1 on no spoilers.  I think I brought it up saying the ending was leaked, but I have no intention on spoiling myself or others.

[hefdaddy42]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

I'm on the same page. In the earlier seasons we rarely got battles. They were few and far between and definitely NOT what made the show the powerhouse it is today. However, the show runners seem to think that all people want are big battles (and basing on comments here and other places, they might be right) and are turning the show into that instead. I agree it's a shame, but they get what they want (huge ratings) and the people get what they want, big battles. I guess.

I get what you're saying, and I don't know why we can't have both, but there's no way there weren't going to be at least a couple of big battles this season.  Just no way.

[ariich]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

I'm on the same page. In the earlier seasons we rarely got battles. They were few and far between and definitely NOT what made the show the powerhouse it is today. However, the show runners seem to think that all people want are big battles (and basing on comments here and other places, they might be right) and are turning the show into that instead. I agree it's a shame, but they get what they want (huge ratings) and the people get what they want, big battles. I guess.

I mean, there's typically been one epic battle episode per season (not every season but most) and in fairness they've usually been really good. But a single one-hour episode out of 10 has still allowed lots of plot and character development throughout the rest of the season. I agree it feels a bit like they've taken the justified positive reactions to previous battle episodes and gone overboard with it.

[Adami]

Oh I wasn't saying we shouldn't have any battles.

I'm just saying the show has made them basically the number 1 priority and the biggest draw when that didn't used to be the case, and it might be at the expense of plot and character development being done well.

[ariich]

The next episode has been hyped up as an even bigger battle than episode 3 was. Kinda suggests it'll be another 1.5 hours of just one battle. I'll reiterate my point that the plot and character development feeling rushed is because the writers seem to be prioritising epic battles over narrative, which is good event television but definitely not my priority and I think it's a shame.

EDIT: Oh and yeah I'd prefer to avoid spoilers as I am still enjoying the show overall.

I'm on the same page. In the earlier seasons we rarely got battles. They were few and far between and definitely NOT what made the show the powerhouse it is today. However, the show runners seem to think that all people want are big battles (and basing on comments here and other places, they might be right) and are turning the show into that instead. I agree it's a shame, but they get what they want (huge ratings) and the people get what they want, big battles. I guess.

I get what you're saying, and I don't know why we can't have both, but there's no way there weren't going to be at least a couple of big battles this season.  Just no way.

I don't disagree, but either 1. the battles could have been shorter in length with more time dedicated to character time or plot progression, or 2. if they really wanted to spend that much screen time on big battles then they could have gone with more episodes.

[gmillerdrake]

Oh I wasn't saying we shouldn't have any battles.

I'm just saying the show has made them basically the number 1 priority and the biggest draw when that didn't used to be the case, and it might be at the expense of plot and character development being done well.

This show undoubtedly shifted its focus once they surpassed the source material. The poetic  ‘Nuance’ of the show that forged its foundation and made it such a ‘great’ show was lost once they did not have GRRM’s writing to lead and direct them.

Character dialogue and development changed.....not to an utterly detrimental point but enough to notice. I think they tried their best but shifted focus to the big ‘splosions and battles to keep us intertwined.....which have been awesome....but, we all can see that the characters and story have suffered a bit.

I still did the show immensely but it’s not quite what it used to be.

[Grappler]

This is the end of the show.  We've had all sorts of prior seasons for good dialogue and character development.  What's left to develop, now that there are only 2 episodes left?  Eventually, these characters all have to embark on their final journey - Arya to kill Cersei (?), The Hound to confront The Mountain, The Night King to take over the world, Jon et. al., to defend the world, Dany to attempt to sieze the Iron Throne.  Jamie to handle some final business with Cersei, either to defend or kill her, etc.

I don't see why everyone is harping on these episodes when the series is just about over - the show is headed towards the two giant conflicts that have always been promised (The Night King, The Iron Throne), so character development eventually ends and those conflicts become the primary focus of the show.

[The Walrus]

On a positive note, how freaking good was Cersei's acting in the last episode? Honestly she's my favorite character in the entire show. I think my single favorite thing about episode 4 was how she used her facial expressions and said so much without saying anything.

When they strolled up to King's Landing, honestly, that whole scene gives me chills. It feels like walking up to a final boss in an RPG that you know is menacing, powerful, and ruthless. Qyburn as the master of black magic, Ser Gregor as the undead warrior bodyguard, the pinnacle of physical might, and Cersei, the despicable, cruel, tyrant queen. Qyburn hasn't really had a lot of screen time or important moments, but boy does he feel deadly. I love the brief pensive moment he has when he responds to Tyrion's comment about screams of burning children. So evil in such a subtle way.

[Adami]

This is the end of the show.  We've had all sorts of prior seasons for good dialogue and character development.  What's left to develop, now that there are only 2 episodes left?  Eventually, these characters all have to embark on their final journey - Arya to kill Cersei (?), The Hound to confront The Mountain, The Night King to take over the world, Jon et. al., to defend the world, Dany to attempt to sieze the Iron Throne.  Jamie to handle some final business with Cersei, either to defend or kill her, etc.

I don't see why everyone is harping on these episodes when the series is just about over - the show is headed towards the two giant conflicts that have always been promised (The Night King, The Iron Throne), so character development eventually ends and those conflicts become the primary focus of the show.

What? No. Character development doesn't get an excuse to become bad just cause the show is ending. This is when it needs to be great. I didn't invest 8 years and 7 seasons (the last two of which were also a bit meh) just to see battles that i can see in other movies done better.

I get you like it, but please stop totally dismissing the valid criticism of a LOT of people. I still like the show despite my complaints.

[The Walrus]

This is the end of the show.  We've had all sorts of prior seasons for good dialogue and character development.  What's left to develop, now that there are only 2 episodes left?  Eventually, these characters all have to embark on their final journey - Arya to kill Cersei (?), The Hound to confront The Mountain, The Night King to take over the world, Jon et. al., to defend the world, Dany to attempt to sieze the Iron Throne.  Jamie to handle some final business with Cersei, either to defend or kill her, etc.

I don't see why everyone is harping on these episodes when the series is just about over - the show is headed towards the two giant conflicts that have always been promised (The Night King, The Iron Throne), so character development eventually ends and those conflicts become the primary focus of the show.

I agree to some extent but I mean there's soooo much they could still take their time with. They could've held Missandei captive for at least a couple episodes. They could've shown Jaime spending more time in the North with Brienne, maybe. They could've spend more time showing characters on the extremely long road from Winterfell to King's Landing. It's all about how they've rushed through these seasons instead of giving characters time to breathe and marinate in their situations like they did in earlier episodes. That's the problem. The old Game of Thrones would take its time letting characters stew in their emotions and dilemmas. The final seasons need that kind of drama as well as all the action.

EDIT: Yeah, what Adami said.

EDIT 2: It's already been harped on to death but... just watched the Rhaegal scene again and the bolt LITERALLY COMES FROM THE DIRECTION DANY IS LOOKING TOWARDS!! It's not even like the bolt came from behind!

[MirrorMask]

The plot points are fine. It's the road leading there that leaves a lot to be desired.

Walter White in Breaking Bad, well, broke bad basically over the course of 5 seasons, and still at the end he wasn't a ruthless kingpin all of the time but was still his unsure coward self. I'm fine with Dany snapping and going over the mental edge, I'm less fine with having a single episode where she feels shunned by everyone AND loses a dragon in a way that makes no sense AND sees her bestie killed.

Robb Stark's journey ended at the Red Wedding, that was a season long in the process, if not before. It's like if they'd had shown him marrying Talysa AND losing the mill because of Edmure's dumbfuckery AND beheading Lord Karstark  ALL IN THE SAME EPISODE, and then kill him right the episode after.

[gmillerdrake]

This is the end of the show.  We've had all sorts of prior seasons for good dialogue and character development.  What's left to develop, now that there are only 2 episodes left?  Eventually, these characters all have to embark on their final journey - Arya to kill Cersei (?), The Hound to confront The Mountain, The Night King to take over the world, Jon et. al., to defend the world, Dany to attempt to sieze the Iron Throne.  Jamie to handle some final business with Cersei, either to defend or kill her, etc.

I don't see why everyone is harping on these episodes when the series is just about over - the show is headed towards the two giant conflicts that have always been promised (The Night King, The Iron Throne), so character development eventually ends and those conflicts become the primary focus of the show.

I get you like it, but please stop totally dismissing the valid criticism of a LOT of people. I still like the show despite my complaints.

I'm stuck right in the middle on this. I'm 'fine' with the pace being pushed to week out some of the non-essential scenes....but at the same time I'd have liked to see a bit more about Bran and his condition.....maybe one more revelation he could bring about the Night Kings or White Walkers. Did it 'ruin' anything for me? Nope. But it would have been cool to add another layer or two to that story line. Same with Jamie/Brianne. We have had several seasons of those two becoming close and you could 'feel' that they both cared for one another so when they finally hooked up it didn't feel rushed....but the way Jamie left did. Perhaps a bit more care with that situation....another few scenes to really build it up and make his exit more dramatic.

Stuff like that.... it's not a series killer for me but as has been mentioned....the show was SO good at the nuance, dialogue and character related things in the first 5 seasons that it has stood out in the last few as a 'weak' point. Not a show destroying issue....but an issue none the less.
What? No. Character development doesn't get an excuse to become bad just cause the show is ending. This is when it needs to be great. I didn't invest 8 years and 7 seasons (the last two of which were also a bit meh) just to see battles that i can see in other movies done better.

[Adami]

I totally get your point. And here's why my thinking I believe would be good for everyone.

Option 1) We skip over plot and character to give more battles and make everything very fast
Option 2) We focus more on character and plot and focus less on battles and action

Option 1 = a large portion of the fan base becomes disappointed and sees the showing ending on a low note.
Option 2 = People were into this show long before (I assume) it all became about battles and dragons. So going back to that wouldn't lose anyone.

[Mladen]

Robb Stark's journey ended at the Red Wedding, that was a season long in the process, if not before. It's like if they'd had shown him marrying Talysa AND losing the mill because of Edmure's dumbfuckery AND beheading Lord Karstark  ALL IN THE SAME EPISODE, and then kill him right the episode after.

Whatever happened to the Edmure guy?

[kaos2900]

I guess what I don't understand is what did you all expect? We all knew the last season was 6 episodes and would be the last season. So everyone knew that this season would be the climax. Plus, we're through 4 episodes and only 1 has been focused on battles and dragons. And looking back, the vast majority of the show (pre and post book material) has been character/plot focused, not battles. I anticipated that this season would be similar to Return of the King or basically like one big movie.

People can critique the show, but I don't feel like the quality of the show is any worse now than any other season and I don't see the problem with people defending the show if people are able to voice their displeasure. Yes the story has sped up and the seasons have become shorter but the quality is still there. Would it have been awesome to have the show go on another 5 seasons knowing that there was a limit to the cost of the show and that the cast was ready to move on? I'd say no because then you'd have The Walking Dead which rapidly turned into a massive pile of shit.

My personal opinion on the level of disappointment about the show, not just here btw, is primarily due to one of the following:
1. The story is not panning out the way people want it to. Any one is shocked at the potential Danny turning crazy has not been paying attention for the majority of the show. They have subtlety been alluding to that possibility for years.
2. The show is so massively popular and mainstream that's it's not cool anymore.

I think the same thing has happened with Star Wars. It's not perfect and I personally wished some things would have happened differently but man this show is still better than 99% if not anything that has been on TV ever. I 100% guarantee that people will watch the show in it's entirely or just season 8 a year from now and actually appreciate the show more. If you watch the post  thrones show with the creators they obviously have reason for everything they've done. You may not agree with it but it doesn't make the quality bad.

[gmillerdrake]

I totally get your point. And here's why my thinking I believe would be good for everyone.

Option 1) We skip over plot and character to give more battles and make everything very fast
Option 2) We focus more on character and plot and focus less on battles and action

Option 1 = a large portion of the fan base becomes disappointed and sees the showing ending on a low note.
Option 2 = People were into this show long before (I assume) it all became about battles and dragons. So going back to that wouldn't lose anyone.

The decision to shorten Seasons 7 and 8 was always based around the two show runners believing they could finish telling the story in that amount of episodes. While, they are doing just that.....I'm just wondering what were the considerations in making that decision? Was it the actors/actresses and themselves just wanting to turn the page to something new more quickly? We know it wasn't budget because I have a hunch HBO would have funded as many seasons as they wanted at 10 episodes per season. Did they realize they're effort in writing these characters was that much more noticeably 'worse' than when they had GRRM's source material to draw from? So they just decided to fast track it?

Again....I'm actually not at all disappointed with what I've seen thus far this season. Been greatly entertained and have had no real big issues with any of the episodes. A gripe here or there but nothing to ruin it for me. But I'm also an honest enough fan to be able to see the difference in the show the last two (or three) seasons compared to the first (five or) six.

[gmillerdrake]

My personal opinion on the level of disappointment about the show, not just here btw, is primarily due to one of the following:
1. The story is not panning out the way people want it to. Any one is shocked at the potential Danny turning crazy has not been paying attention for the majority of the show. They have subtlety been alluding to that possibility for years.
2. The show is so massively popular and mainstream that's it's not cool anymore.

Completely on board with these two points. The first one....absolutely. Just like in SW....it seems that a lot of the 'hate' may be coming from folks who had their own idea of how things should have been done on the show. And with the second point, The only way for the show to 'go' was down for some people because of the heights it's reached.