Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[The Walrus]

I should add I love discussing this show here even with people who have problems with it. I have problems too, I just don't want to dwell on them right now, there's so much good to talk about... the cinematography was wonderful in that last scene

[cramx3]

I should add I love discussing this show here even with people who have problems with it. I have problems too, I just don't want to dwell on them right now, there's so much good to talk about...

And on the opposite, at leats with the last few episodes, I find it hard to focus on the positives when the negatives were so large.  Regardless, I still love the show to death.  The dislike is strong because my like is also so strong.  I know for me, I wouldn't have such strong opinions if my love and attachment to the show weren't so strong.

To compare, I used to really like the Walking Dead, used to discuss it here a lot and eventually I started really disliking it and eventually just stopped watching, there's none of that here.  Even with the negatives, I am still loving the sunday nights watching this show.

[RuRoRul]

I don't think that characterisation of people's criticism was based on what anyone had posted here. But across the internet in general some of the negative reactions do seem to descend into hyperbole and vitriol and I think people were commenting more on that (rather than responding to people here). Dismissing critics as "just being spoiled crybabies" is a bit of a cop-out that could be said about any criticism of anything but I understand it for some of the more extreme level of some reactions.

I'm not an arbiter of what criticism is allowed in this thread so this is just the opinion of one guy who reads and sometimes posts in the thread, but I find the level of posts here interesting and appropriate, criticism included, that's why this forum's Game of Thrones thread is one of my top spots for online discussion of the show. I guess one of the reasons though is it's usually been a place where people can discuss the good, the bad and the ugly without anyone going too overboard so from my perspective it would be a shame if everyone here suddenly only turned to only being interested in trying to one-up the last post's hyperbole about how much they hate the show (even if the show's episodes were the cause of that). But I don't see any signs of it going that way.

[The Walrus]

Well let's talk about the negatives then. The only reason I push back is because I often just think the 'problems' are minor and not always major (Battle of Winterfell being an exception). I get the criticisms with the Battle of Winterfell, absolutely, but last night's... I watched it twice in a row and I thought it was probably the best episode of the season. So I'm really curious what the issues are. The only one I can think of is Dany not seeing Euron's fleet, and according to D&D, she literally just "forgot about the Euron and the Ironborn fleet" which has me going "uhhhhh what" - but beyond that I don't have any major criticisms. Missandei was sent off in the skiff so it's likely they just rowed on up and captured her while everyone else fled, and of course Cersei & Euron are going to be aware of Dany's highest-level assistants.

[faizoff]

With regards to the writing to me, it looks like it has become consciously and purposely less intricate. I think D&D are focussing more on event-driven dialog and filling in dialog to lead up to said event. The story lines are converging and interaction is always shifting to accommodate those events.

I personally don't have an issue with this approach because there are several characters in the show and it could be the best way to tie up loose ends. I also mostly agree with many of the criticisms and think they are very valid, but in broad strokes I think some of those flaws on the show are ok.

I would've liked them to move away from the scenarios where someone is saved at the last minute because I think you just do those so many times, when it actually doesn't happen you quite don't feel the impact.

But even with all these flaws and issues I enjoy the show immensely and fully recognize people will *NOT* feel the same as me.

[ariich]

And I'll tell you the same thing I tell Stadler, if you have issues with extremists on different websites, deal with them, don't bring that frustration here where I don't see anyone making those claims.

Exactly. I don't recall a single person here suggesting that the show is now "trash".

If we're going to complain about what people/trolls on other sites and social media are saying then we'd be doing that in other threads. Better to surely focus on what people actually want to discuss here.

[The Walrus]

Again. I never said anyone here called the show trash.

But I get it, I'll stop bringing up other sites and what other people think

[ariich]

Just to clarify as I don't want any misunderstanding: I'm not suggesting you should never bring it up. I understand as much as anyone the frustration, I'm often the one still liking something that others are ragging on. But if it's brought up when someone here raises any kind of criticism, even when they say they liked it, then it comes off as very defensive and makes it harder to have a good discussion about it like we did last week.

[The Walrus]

Gotcha. I'm down with that. 

[gmillerdrake]

Again. I never said anyone here called the show trash.

But I get it, I'll stop bringing up other sites and what other people think

Same here. To Adami and cramx my post this morning was not directed at you two or any others in here who have voiced their concerns about the show. I think this thread has been great for discussing the issues both good and bad about the show. I made my post after a half hour of seeing/reading other sites out there and came here to bitch about it and after re-reading my post I can see how it looks like it could have been directed at those here who said they have issues.

[Adami]

Kattle, I wasn't specifically targeting you, sorry for that confusion.

As for the rest, when I came into the thread and saw multiple posts in a row about how people should just get over their dislikes or stop watching, or whatever, even if it was directed at Reddit, it felt very much like a "like it or get out." Glad to know that's not the case.



Was anyone else expecting a bit more celebration for Arya literally ending thousands of years of threats in one move and killing the most unbeatable army ever? Dany gave her one call out. That's it. I know she didn't want more, but no one else seemed to care much.

Also very curious where she and The Hound are going. I assume it's King Landing, but I'm more into that story right now than much of the others.

[gmillerdrake]

As for the rest, when I came into the thread and saw multiple posts in a row about how people should just get over their dislikes or stop watching, or whatever, even if it was directed at Reddit, it felt very much like a "like it or get out."

Well...I don't know what else to say to you then Adami.....I specifically directed an apology to you and Cramx....but, whatevs...I think I know where I stand with you anyway.

[Adami]

As for the rest, when I came into the thread and saw multiple posts in a row about how people should just get over their dislikes or stop watching, or whatever, even if it was directed at Reddit, it felt very much like a "like it or get out."

Well...I don't know what else to say to you then Adami.....I specifically directed an apology to you and Cramx....but, whatevs...I think I know where I stand with you anyway.

I added more to my post once I realized I forgot to acknowledge that I was wrong haha. Sorry about that man.

[gmillerdrake]

As far as the show is concerned.....I'm not buying that's the last time we will see Tormund or 'the North' be a part of Jon's life. They threw some dialogue in there that seemed to hint that Jon's ultimate 'fate' or spot in that world will be in the North.

It's not to far fetched to imagine that when it's all said and done....Jon (Aegon) will be the heir to the throne and the one set to lead and he may abdicate his throne to Sansa....then become warden of the North or maybe even just go full blown 'wildling'

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Apologies, friends. Certainly did not mean to start a shit storm about Game of Thrones discussion. I tried to make it clear that I was talking about the internet as a whole, not this thread in particular, but see now that I did a bad job. As usual, the discussion around these parts has been very reasonable, fun, insightful, and entertaining. I'm just forever unseasoned, you know?

As far as the show is concerned.....I'm not buying that's the last time we will see Tormund or 'the North' be a part of Jon's life. They threw some dialogue in there that seemed to hint that Jon's ultimate 'fate' or spot in that world will be in the North.

That made me think that Jon will ultimately just go beyond the wall. As long as he is part of the Seven Kingdoms, he will be drawn into conflict and the allure of rule. Perhaps he ultimately talks Danny off the ledge, helps her take the Iron Throne in a way that is not Mad King v 2.0, and then flees north so that her rule is uncontested.

[The Walrus]

Drogon better be wearing armor next time we see him

[KevShmev]

Again. I never said anyone here called the show trash.

But I get it, I'll stop bringing up other sites and what other people think

Same here. To Adami and cramx my post this morning was not directed at you two or any others in here who have voiced their concerns about the show. I think this thread has been great for discussing the issues both good and bad about the show. I made my post after a half hour of seeing/reading other sites out there and came here to bitch about it and after re-reading my post I can see how it looks like it could have been directed at those here who said they have issues.

I second this post. 

I saw an article this morning where someone was bitching about them killing off the last woman of color on the show and I was like, are you f'ing kidding me? Some just love to bitch about anything.

[gmillerdrake]

Drogon better be wearing armor next time we see him

No kidding. I honestly don't see how he's the 'game changer' any longer....those cross bolt guns are the game changers.

[Adami]

I'm not upset they killed a woman of color, but they did kill the hottest girl on the show.

That said, it was a cool switch. We all kept assuming Grey Worm would be the one to die for obvious reasons. So none of us (to my knowledge) were even thinking about how he'd handle her death.

[Podaar]

Was anyone else expecting a bit more celebration for Arya literally ending thousands of years of threats in one move and killing the most unbeatable army ever? Dany gave her one call out. That's it. I know she didn't want more, but no one else seemed to care much.

I thought the level of appreciation for Arya was about right and I appreciated that it was Dany who gave the shout out.

Also very curious where she and The Hound are going. I assume it's King Landing, but I'm more into that story right now than much of the others.

I'm with you on this. Some of my favorite episodes were The Hound and Arya traveling together. I'm convinced an entire show could revolve around their adventures and be completely entertaining. I'm sure that's not what we're going to get given the time constraints. They'll probably show up in King's Landing eventually and cause maximum chaos.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm not upset they killed a woman of color, but they did kill the hottest girl on the show.

That said, it was a cool switch. We all kept assuming Grey Worm would be the one to die for obvious reasons. So none of us (to my knowledge) were even thinking about how he'd handle her death.

Part of me was hoping she'd grab Cersi and just pull them both off that tower. But, there was a creepy foreshadow in a frame where they had the Mountain looming over the back of her head for a moment or two where you pretty much knew he was chopping her head off.

[KevShmev]

Given Cersei's knack for giving people a slow death after some torture (Sand Snakes, the sept, etc.), Missandei getting a quick death almost seems merciful.

[Adami]

Given Cersei's knack for giving people a slow death after some torture (Sand Snakes, the sept, etc.), Missandei getting a quick death almost seems merciful.

I think in this case, to Cersei, Missandei is just some random person. She tends to do the slow death for people who she feels some personal anger for. I doubt she felt anything at all for Missandei and saw her as nothing more than a way to piss off Dany.

[The Walrus]

Just sharing to address the topic of the scorpions on Euron's fleet and how fast they fire. This gave me some perspective on the weapons and how they were able to defeat Rhaegal so efficiently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpio_(weapon)

The bolt-firing scorpio had mainly two functions in a legion. In precision shooting, it was a weapon of marksmanship capable of cutting down any foe within a distance of 100 meters. In parabolic shooting, the range is greater, with distances up to 400 meters, and the firing rate is higher (3 to 4 shots per minute).

That's up to a quarter mile. And those look like small ones. Look how friggin big the ones in Thrones are:



So I imagine they fire one, immediately shove another one up there, rewind it, and good to go. I can see them popping off a few a minute, multipled by however many ships they have. The torque on those things has to be insane, I'm sure it manages to negate wind/drag for at least a significant length of time.

[The Walrus]

Given Cersei's knack for giving people a slow death after some torture (Sand Snakes, the sept, etc.), Missandei getting a quick death almost seems merciful.

I think in this case, to Cersei, Missandei is just some random person. She tends to do the slow death for people who she feels some personal anger for. I doubt she felt anything at all for Missandei and saw her as nothing more than a way to piss off Dany.

I don't think she felt anything, but Cersei is cunning, and I'm sure she knew who Missandei was, or at least her relation to Dany, because she was present at the Dragonpit in season 7. She definitely knew that would sting Dany fierce.

[Adami]

Given Cersei's knack for giving people a slow death after some torture (Sand Snakes, the sept, etc.), Missandei getting a quick death almost seems merciful.

I think in this case, to Cersei, Missandei is just some random person. She tends to do the slow death for people who she feels some personal anger for. I doubt she felt anything at all for Missandei and saw her as nothing more than a way to piss off Dany.

I don't think she felt anything, but Cersei is cunning, and I'm sure she knew who Missandei was, or at least her relation to Dany, because she was present at the Dragonpit in season 7. She definitely knew that would sting Dany fierce.

Totally. When I said random person, I meant she has no emotional connection to her at all. She's just a pawn. Unlike the sand snakes who killed her daughter.

[The Walrus]

Ohh, yeah, definitely. Cersei doesn't give a damn about her own family, she sure as hell doesn't care about Missandei 

[gmillerdrake]

Tyrion knows Varys is right....and, Dany is going to ignore everyone’s solid advice on how to beat Cersi and win the hearts of the people and she’s gonna go ‘mad king’ on everyone....eventually leading to Jon having to kill her.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Tyrion knows Varys is right....and, Dany is going to ignore everyone’s solid advice on how to beat Cersi and win the hearts of the people and she’s gonna go ‘mad king’ on everyone....eventually leading to Jon having to kill her.

If that happens... Damn... I know Game of Thrones is dark. I never expected a happy ending. But the ending of the show will basically be that no one got what they wanted and everyone is miserable. That will be a hard show to come back to, at least for me.

[Adami]

Tyrion knows Varys is right....and, Dany is going to ignore everyone’s solid advice on how to beat Cersi and win the hearts of the people and she’s gonna go ‘mad king’ on everyone....eventually leading to Jon having to kill her.

See, it's going that way and I don't like that. I get that it'll be a tragedy, but we've had 7 years of character development for Dany. To have it all undone in a season is just disappointing.


Thank god for Tyrion and Varys. Their characters have been some of my favorite since season 1.

[gmillerdrake]

See, it's going that way and I don't like that. I get that it'll be a tragedy, but we've had 7 years of character development for Dany. To have it all undone in a season is just disappointing.

If that happens... Damn... I know Game of Thrones is dark. I never expected a happy ending. But the ending of the show will basically be that no one got what they wanted and everyone is miserable. That will be a hard show to come back to, at least for me.

I agree, I had bought into the whole 'I'm not my Father' and 'I'm going to break the wheel' mantra that Dany's been selling all these years. It looked to be promising and that she could be the 'one' to change it all. But I think with them showing her toast the Tarley men and some of the reactions and decisions she's been making they're showing us that no matter how hard she's trying to be 'different'.....she's just like the rest. There's only one person who is truly different than them all and his name is Jon Snow (Aegon Targaryn)

[kaos2900]

Tyrion knows Varys is right....and, Dany is going to ignore everyone’s solid advice on how to beat Cersi and win the hearts of the people and she’s gonna go ‘mad king’ on everyone....eventually leading to Jon having to kill her.

See, it's going that way and I don't like that. I get that it'll be a tragedy, but we've had 7 years of character development for Dany. To have it all undone in a season is just disappointing.


Thank god for Tyrion and Varys. Their characters have been some of my favorite since season 1.

I don't think it's all been undone just this season. There have been scenes throughout the show where she has shown tendency's to win at all costs.

[Samsara]

I agree on Dany showing signs throughout the whole show. She will explode. Although I don't think Jon will be King. At least not at King's Landing. That's too obvious.

Don't sleep on Arya. The fact she killed the Night King, the fact she said "I'm not a lady" and refused an opportunity already, and the fact she's headed to King's Landing. Wouldn't surprise me if she's a surprise "Queen" of Westeros. Long shot for sure, and not my only theory, but last night sure supported part of it.

But Dany is obviously going off the rails, and obviously Jon is going to have to kill her. Or if he doesn't, Varys will.

[Phoenix87x]

I did actually laugh out loud at this part. What is that, like 100 soldiers tops? Now, if you would have shown that to me at the beginning of the episode, I would have been like "well, she has a dragon, so that's an ace of spades", but not right after losing one dragon and almost losing two of them, to the weapons that are all over that castle wall.

On the flip side, if this scene is trying to portray that she is delusional, foolish and wants to try and win regardless of her chances, then it works pretty well.

A little bit different than the first time they were outside king's landing

[The Walrus]

Outlandish prediction: the parley ends with Dany flying off and immediately executing a counterattack; a divebomb from above the clouds maybe, assaulting the Red Keep directly. But Drogon is shot down, and Dany is seriously injured in the crash. Dany is then captured. When Jon arrives, Cersei will present a bloodied Daenerys. Jon refuses to surrender. Cersei allows Jon to go free of retaliation under the condition that he kill Daenerys.

That's where I got hung up, because I don't know how to explain anything that could happen after that, and I don't see Jon killing Dany in that way. But it's fun to think about.