Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[cramx3]

That shot of Jon Snow preparing to make his stand before the oncoming cavalry charge was fucking ICONIC.

And was not CGI

RIP Wun Wun. Some giants held doors, you opened them.

I was sad to see him go but I assumed either he or Tormund would die last night. When I found that spoiler article, I knew it was going to be Wun Wun. It didn't take anything away from it because reading an article and seeing how he actually died were two entirely different things. The drama played out well. He WAS the last giant, wasn't he?

At least in the show, Mance had said the one who died at the battle at the Wall was the last of his lineage so it's very possible the giants are extinct in the show now.

[masterthes]

Top 5 episode of the entire series. Completely outstanding. I have a feeling the finale is going to be amazing!!!

[hefdaddy42]

Can't wait for next week's finale.

But then comes the sadness of having to wait another year for season 7... 

[cramx3]

Top 5 episode of the entire series. Completely outstanding. I have a feeling the finale is going to be amazing!!!

But then comes the sadness of having to wait another year for season 7... 

This and this.  I've got to image there will be WTF moments in the last episode, mostly because those storylines seem to be less predictable than Jon's was and 69 minutes of GoT has me wet already.

[Prog Snob]

That shot of Jon Snow preparing to make his stand before the oncoming cavalry charge was fucking ICONIC.

Indeed and the accompanying music was perfection.

[faizoff]

It's always a bitter sweet moment when watching the finale since you have to wait forever for the next season. I'm sure the finale will be just as great but a bit scaled back.

[BlackInk]

I was really impressed with this episode. Not only with the battle and the big scenes (which were of course amazing) but also with how the smaller scenes were handled. Every scene of dialogue was great in every way, writing, directing, acting. A stand out there is the argument between Jon and Sansa. Awesome job.

He WAS the last giant, wasn't he?

Possibly. The way the Hardhome debate took place, it's hinted that he was the leader for a tribe of giants. But those giants are probably wights in the Night King's army by now.

[Accelerando]

That was one of the best shot, best choreographed battle sequences in recent memory in either tv or film. One of the best episodes of this show, easily.

Well, since Hardhome last year.    Same director did both battles.  This guy deserves an award or something.

Agreed! I'd also argue that this battle was just better than Hardhome. Just the way everything was choreographed will even make Peter Jackson think "Damn, I should have thought of that"

[Progmetty]

He WAS the last giant, wasn't he?

Possibly. The way the Hardhome debate took place, it's hinted that he was the leader for a tribe of giants. But those giants are probably wights in the Night King's army by now.
[/quote]

It's my understand that there used to be only him and the one that died in Mance Rayder's attack on the wall, which btw 5 watchmen were able to kill him and die in the process, evidently Wun Wun was giant super hero to have lasted as long as he did in the battle of the bastards.

[ariich]

Oh and I have to add, that was some of the best battle cinematography I  think I've ever seen on TV. I mean the battle was going pretty much by the numbers but I was so engrossed the whole time.

The Knights of the Vail coming in reminded me of Gandalf and the riders of Rohan coming down the mountain in the Two Towers. Complete deus ex machina storytelling wise but it makes for good entertainment.

Cliche, certainly, but I'm not sure it's right to call it deus ex machina. We knew Sansa had asked them to come, and early in the episode she asked Jon to hold out for more fighters clearly in the hope that they would do so. So as a result it wasn't at all surprising, and certainly didn't come out of the blue.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree.  I'm OK with people coming in to save the day.  After all, that's where the expression comes from.  It wouldn't be a cliche if it never happened.

[MirrorMask]

Man, what an episode!

As various empires and generals in the course of history seemed to have a hard time to figure out the basic concept of "Don't invade Russia when it's winter", Dany's enemies as well have a baffling difficulty in grasping the concept that she has three muthafackin dragons, which after all it's all she ever talk about. Maybe this time around they will learn.

Anyway, think of the various discussions about the plans... the time it must have took them to decide which maester to kill  seriously, how they all talked it down? "Ok, you go out with the dragon, then we will let the other ones free, meanwhile we'll send a raven or something to the Khalasar so that they will come in once the fleet is ablaze, now about the maesters dying... who are we gonna kill? the asshole one? mh, if someone asks to die willingly, kill him, and if someone offers another kill him instead... what if they gang up on another one? ok, kill the other two then". And so on 

For the battle in the north... amazing coreography, indeed. Cruel soundtrack game here, they have music building up tension in what appears to be the fatal shot for Rickon, and then he escapes, and then just out of nowhere he gets shut down.  Bummer. All the entire scene I was figuratively screaming at him "RUN ZIG-ZAG YOU MORON!!!!"... why did he have to make Ramsay's job easy?

Ramsay was obviously gonna bite the bullet, and obviously there would have been side casualties for our heroes. Rickon and Wun Wun were the most likely ones, and I was starting to fear for Tormund, likely he survived. It's really cliched to have the knights of the Vale arriving especially when the battle was about to be lost, I only wonder why Sansa never told Jon directly "Listen, don't be pissed off at me, but I've already asked Littlefinger for help, can't you just wait a day or two more?"

I took a savage pleasure in watching Jon beating Ramsay down with his bare hands. When he stopped I thought he would have let Sansa kill him there and then, but it's equally satisfying to have him ripped to pieces by his own dog. Never felt so good since Joffrey's death and Cersei's walk of shame.

Now, on to a hopefully wonderful final episode! I espect a glorious mess happening in King's Landing....

[Phoenix87x]

For the battle in the north... amazing coreography, indeed. Cruel soundtrack game here, they have music building up tension in what appears to be the fatal shot for Rickon, and then he escapes, and then just out of nowhere he gets shut down.  Bummer. All the entire scene I was figuratively screaming at him "RUN ZIG-ZAG YOU MORON!!!!"... why did he have to make Ramsay's job easy?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If I was him, I would have ran, but while also looking back to see when he released the arrow. At which point, I would run sideways for like 20 paces and then continue to run forward. Just keep your eyes on where the arrow is going.

But still a cool strategy for Ramsey to draw Snow into the trap.

[Progmetty]

It's really cliched to have the knights of the Vale arriving especially when the battle was about to be lost, I only wonder why Sansa never told Jon directly "Listen, don't be pissed off at me, but I've already asked Littlefinger for help, can't you just wait a day or two more?"

Exactly, except why would he even be pissed off that she did that when they toured the houses looking for support?! He doesn't know LF and as far as we know they've never met, why would he be pissed that Sansa wrote him! It doesn't make sense..

[MirrorMask]

For the battle in the north... amazing coreography, indeed. Cruel soundtrack game here, they have music building up tension in what appears to be the fatal shot for Rickon, and then he escapes, and then just out of nowhere he gets shut down.  Bummer. All the entire scene I was figuratively screaming at him "RUN ZIG-ZAG YOU MORON!!!!"... why did he have to make Ramsay's job easy?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If I was him, I would have ran, but while also looking back to see when he released the arrow. At which point, I would run sideways for like 20 paces and then continue to run forward. Just keep your eyes on where the arrow is going.

This is even better than just running zig-zag. I didn't think of it, evidently Rickon in the panic of the situation didn't think even about not running straight.

Anyway, someone a while back suggested that Sansa may be pregnant, due to her line to Littlefinger "I can feel the effects of what Ramsay did to me in my body right now". Also Ramsay taunted her along the lines of "I'm in you forever", was he just saying that the phisical abuse she went through would have been impossible to forget, or he actually knocked her up and he figured it out? even though, it seems a bit pointless to have Sansa pregnant with the son of a dead ex-warden of the North.

[Logain Ablar]

What a brilliant episode! You can see where the budget has been spent for this season. The battle scenes were incredible, and the dragon CGI was probably the best use of CGI I've seen on a TV show.

Nice to see Ramsay get his come-uppance, and the smirk on Sansa's face as she walked away at the very end was priceless.

Rickon's "run for your life" scene was great, because you really thought he was going to make it, but one final act of cruelty from Ramsay put a stop to it. It reminded me of a very similar scene in Apocalypto, but with a different outcome. I suppose the intention was to goad Jon Snow into doing something rash, and it nearly worked.

I'd no problem with the Knights of the Vale coming to save the day, but it was really looking grim for a while, and being GoT, you can never count on things working out as you might expect. 

One minor gripe is that the scenes with Daenerys felt a little rushed. The battle at Meereen seemed to be over pretty quickly, and next thing you know, the Ironborn show up and form an alliance. Did she agree to give them back the Iron Islands, with the understanding that there would be no more reaving and pillaging? Or would Daenerys maintain control of all the 7 kingdoms? I'm not sure if I picked up on that correctly.. 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

A stand out there is the argument between Jon and Sansa.

Yea I loved that scene, it made you question if they had a chance against Ramsay, maybe they actually didn't and Jon was way over his head.
Actually all the way up until Jon finally beat the shit out of Ramsay I was expecting an arrow or sword or something hitting Jon. 

[ariich]

A stand out there is the argument between Jon and Sansa.

Yea I loved that scene, it made you question if they had a chance against Ramsay, maybe they actually didn't and Jon was way over his head.
Actually all the way up until Jon finally beat the shit out of Ramsay I was expecting an arrow or sword or something hitting Jon. 

He definitely was out of his depth. The only reason they didn't get completely slaughtered was that Sansa had requested help from the Vale, and they came through. Jon failed epically in this battle.

[Prog Snob]

There isn't much information about this yet but you can sign up and get updates when the website is up and running.

https://watchersonthewall.com/announcing-con-ice-fire/#more-69455

[cramx3]

Anyway, someone a while back suggested that Sansa may be pregnant, due to her line to Littlefinger "I can feel the effects of what Ramsay did to me in my body right now". Also Ramsay taunted her along the lines of "I'm in you forever", was he just saying that the phisical abuse she went through would have been impossible to forget, or he actually knocked her up and he figured it out? even though, it seems a bit pointless to have Sansa pregnant with the son of a dead ex-warden of the North.

It definitely does seem pointless given the show is coming to an end soon... but Sansa also said your family will be forgotten which would not be true if she was pregnant so Im guessing she is not.

One minor gripe is that the scenes with Daenerys felt a little rushed. The battle at Meereen seemed to be over pretty quickly, and next thing you know, the Ironborn show up and form an alliance. Did she agree to give them back the Iron Islands, with the understanding that there would be no more reaving and pillaging? Or would Daenerys maintain control of all the 7 kingdoms? I'm not sure if I picked up on that correctly.. 

I believe so, they can have the Iron Islands but would still be apart of the 7 Kingdoms and under Dany's rule (and no more raping and pillaging).

[Chino]

Finished Season 5 last night... fucking Ollie.

[hefdaddy42]

Finished Season 5 last night... fucking Ollie.

My exact reaction.

OK, you have a week to catch up in order to see the finale for season 6.

[Chino]

Finished Season 5 last night... fucking Ollie.

My exact reaction.

OK, you have a week to catch up in order to see the finale for season 6.

Piece of cake. I'm really enjoying this show. I'm going to be bummed once I'm caught up.

[cramx3]

Finished Season 5 last night... fucking Ollie.

My exact reaction.

OK, you have a week to catch up in order to see the finale for season 6.

Piece of cake. I'm really enjoying this show. I'm going to be bummed once I'm caught up.

You'll be like the rest of us in misery after sunday with the long night ahead

[ZirconBlue]

Oh and I have to add, that was some of the best battle cinematography I  think I've ever seen on TV. I mean the battle was going pretty much by the numbers but I was so engrossed the whole time.

The Knights of the Vail coming in reminded me of Gandalf and the riders of Rohan coming down the mountain in the Two Towers. Complete deus ex machina storytelling wise but it makes for good entertainment.

Cliche, certainly, but I'm not sure it's right to call it deus ex machina. We knew Sansa had asked them to come, and early in the episode she asked Jon to hold out for more fighters clearly in the hope that they would do so. So as a result it wasn't at all surprising, and certainly didn't come out of the blue.

"Deus ex machina" is a term frequently misused.  If it's set up in advance a last-minute save is not a deus ex machina. 

[Prog Snob]

Finished Season 5 last night... fucking Ollie.

My exact reaction.

OK, you have a week to catch up in order to see the finale for season 6.

Piece of cake. I'm really enjoying this show. I'm going to be bummed once I'm caught up.

I know the feeling. Imagine us book readers who have been waiting for the sixth book for years now.

Oh and I have to add, that was some of the best battle cinematography I  think I've ever seen on TV. I mean the battle was going pretty much by the numbers but I was so engrossed the whole time.

The Knights of the Vail coming in reminded me of Gandalf and the riders of Rohan coming down the mountain in the Two Towers. Complete deus ex machina storytelling wise but it makes for good entertainment.

Cliche, certainly, but I'm not sure it's right to call it deus ex machina. We knew Sansa had asked them to come, and early in the episode she asked Jon to hold out for more fighters clearly in the hope that they would do so. So as a result it wasn't at all surprising, and certainly didn't come out of the blue.

"Deus ex machina" is a term frequently misused.  If it's set up in advance a last-minute save is not a deus ex machina. 

Personally, I think it's something a writer uses when he's obviously out of other options. Overused, it's a lazy option and it's not something we have seen GRRM display. I would like to think it didn't happen this way in the books. It's like the elves at Helm's Deep which was poor writing on PJ's part, though I get why he did it.

[RuRoRul]

But two of the major battles in ASOIAF (Blackwater and the assault on the Wall) are resolved by late in the game arrivals of overwhelming forces that are more unexpected (if not "out of nowhere") than the arrival of the Vale forces at the battle of Winterfell (Tywin and the Tyrells at the Blackwater, Stannis at the Wall). So as well as Littlefinger arriving being pretty much the opposite of "deus ex machina" (which is an outside force that is newly introduced to unexpectedly solve a problem) it seems exactly in line with GRRM's writing (which would actually be the better criticism - another battle decided by the late stage arrival of an overwhelming cavalry force that wasn't anticipated by the commander of either army).

Of course I think few modern stories have major obstacles removed by a true "deus ex machina" (unless it's intended comedically) where something completely new and unexpected, like a God literally stepping in, solves the problem. Something like the eagles in the Return of the King (the film especially) are close though; we already knew there were giant eagles in the world that had helped Gandalf before, but there was literally no prior indication that they might show up to help decide the battle of the Black Gates and save the lives of Frodo and Sam. In Game Of Thrones, Benjen's arrival to save Bran and Meera is a close example too - obviously we knew that Benjen might still be out there somewhere so he is not completely new, but there was no prior indication he was working with the Three Eyed Raven and we didn't know that he had sent for any sort of help before he died.

In the case of Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale, we have:
1. Littlefinger discusses with Sansa plans to bring in the Vale forces to defeat either the Boltons or Stannis early in season 5.
2. Littlefinger gains permission from Cersei to take the Vale forces north to face the Boltons or Stannis (although obviously he lies about his true intentions) in the middle of season 5.
3. Littlefinger convinces Robyn Arryn to send Vale forces north to face the Boltons early in season 6.
4. Littefinger tells Sansa that the Vale forces are coming North and offers to help her defeat the Boltons in the middle of season 6.
5. Sansa originally refuses to accept the help of Littlefinger because she no longer trusts him, but after exhausting other options she writes to him to accept the help of the Vale forces - in the last episode she is shown before the Battle of the Bastards.

Then, at the Battle of the Bastards, Littlefinger and the Vale forces arrive and help defeat the Boltons, in a move that has literally been set up for almost two seasons and clearly foreshadowed the last time the North was shown. As far as other forces arriving to solve a problem, it is about as far from a deus ex machina as you can get. It may be another last minute cavalry charge, but people are right to point out that it is not a deus ex machina.

[Chino]

Welp... today is the last day ever use LinkedIn

[gmillerdrake]

Welp... today is the last day ever use LinkedIn

SURPRISE!!!!

[Prog Snob]

But two of the major battles in ASOIAF (Blackwater and the assault on the Wall) are resolved by late in the game arrivals of overwhelming forces that are more unexpected (if not "out of nowhere") than the arrival of the Vale forces at the battle of Winterfell (Tywin and the Tyrells at the Blackwater, Stannis at the Wall). So as well as Littlefinger arriving being pretty much the opposite of "deus ex machina" (which is an outside force that is newly introduced to unexpectedly solve a problem) it seems exactly in line with GRRM's writing (which would actually be the better criticism - another battle decided by the late stage arrival of an overwhelming cavalry force that wasn't anticipated by the commander of either army).

Of course I think few modern stories have major obstacles removed by a true "deus ex machina" (unless it's intended comedically) where something completely new and unexpected, like a God literally stepping in, solves the problem. Something like the eagles in the Return of the King (the film especially) are close though; we already knew there were giant eagles in the world that had helped Gandalf before, but there was literally no prior indication that they might show up to help decide the battle of the Black Gates and save the lives of Frodo and Sam. In Game Of Thrones, Benjen's arrival to save Bran and Meera is a close example too - obviously we knew that Benjen might still be out there somewhere so he is not completely new, but there was no prior indication he was working with the Three Eyed Raven and we didn't know that he had sent for any sort of help before he died.

In the case of Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale, we have:
1. Littlefinger discusses with Sansa plans to bring in the Vale forces to defeat either the Boltons or Stannis early in season 5.
2. Littlefinger gains permission from Cersei to take the Vale forces north to face the Boltons or Stannis (although obviously he lies about his true intentions) in the middle of season 5.
3. Littlefinger convinces Robyn Arryn to send Vale forces north to face the Boltons early in season 6.
4. Littefinger tells Sansa that the Vale forces are coming North and offers to help her defeat the Boltons in the middle of season 6.
5. Sansa originally refuses to accept the help of Littlefinger because she no longer trusts him, but after exhausting other options she writes to him to accept the help of the Vale forces - in the last episode she is shown before the Battle of the Bastards.

Then, at the Battle of the Bastards, Littlefinger and the Vale forces arrive and help defeat the Boltons, in a move that has literally been set up for almost two seasons and clearly foreshadowed the last time the North was shown. As far as other forces arriving to solve a problem, it is about as far from a deus ex machina as you can get. It may be another last minute cavalry charge, but people are right to point out that it is not a deus ex machina.

Well said. I think the God theory you brought up is a perfect example of deus ex machina. There's also a term that Tolkien coined, which is eucatastrophe. It's basically a catastrophe but in favor of the side of good. It's thought to be a type of deus ex machina. In Tolkien's writings, a perfect example of that are the eagles who save the protagonist numerous times. I think in that example, it can also be considered a deus ex machina, because the eagles literally come out of nowhere to save the day.

[RuRoRul]

Welp... today is the last day ever use LinkedIn

-.- Stuff like that is why I watch the episodes as soon as they come out even though I would probably prefer to wait until a season is finished so I can watch multiple episodes at once. Even if I was able to avoid visiting ASOIAF or Game Of Thrones sites or threads like this, stuff like that is always plastered across social media. Even "spoiler free" titles like "Actor talks about THAT HUGE MOMENT in Game Of Thrones!" give away the game.

If it's any consolation, you probably have not been robbed of an event that would have come as a big surprise when it happened. Hopefully you can avoid seeing any more spoilers about the rest of season 6 until you have caught up. Although I'd be careful browsing this thread until you do.

[ariich]

But two of the major battles in ASOIAF (Blackwater and the assault on the Wall) are resolved by late in the game arrivals of overwhelming forces that are more unexpected (if not "out of nowhere") than the arrival of the Vale forces at the battle of Winterfell (Tywin and the Tyrells at the Blackwater, Stannis at the Wall). So as well as Littlefinger arriving being pretty much the opposite of "deus ex machina" (which is an outside force that is newly introduced to unexpectedly solve a problem) it seems exactly in line with GRRM's writing (which would actually be the better criticism - another battle decided by the late stage arrival of an overwhelming cavalry force that wasn't anticipated by the commander of either army).

Of course I think few modern stories have major obstacles removed by a true "deus ex machina" (unless it's intended comedically) where something completely new and unexpected, like a God literally stepping in, solves the problem. Something like the eagles in the Return of the King (the film especially) are close though; we already knew there were giant eagles in the world that had helped Gandalf before, but there was literally no prior indication that they might show up to help decide the battle of the Black Gates and save the lives of Frodo and Sam. In Game Of Thrones, Benjen's arrival to save Bran and Meera is a close example too - obviously we knew that Benjen might still be out there somewhere so he is not completely new, but there was no prior indication he was working with the Three Eyed Raven and we didn't know that he had sent for any sort of help before he died.

In the case of Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale, we have:
1. Littlefinger discusses with Sansa plans to bring in the Vale forces to defeat either the Boltons or Stannis early in season 5.
2. Littlefinger gains permission from Cersei to take the Vale forces north to face the Boltons or Stannis (although obviously he lies about his true intentions) in the middle of season 5.
3. Littlefinger convinces Robyn Arryn to send Vale forces north to face the Boltons early in season 6.
4. Littefinger tells Sansa that the Vale forces are coming North and offers to help her defeat the Boltons in the middle of season 6.
5. Sansa originally refuses to accept the help of Littlefinger because she no longer trusts him, but after exhausting other options she writes to him to accept the help of the Vale forces - in the last episode she is shown before the Battle of the Bastards.

Then, at the Battle of the Bastards, Littlefinger and the Vale forces arrive and help defeat the Boltons, in a move that has literally been set up for almost two seasons and clearly foreshadowed the last time the North was shown. As far as other forces arriving to solve a problem, it is about as far from a deus ex machina as you can get. It may be another last minute cavalry charge, but people are right to point out that it is not a deus ex machina.

Exactly. This is a very good detailed version of my comment that it was cliché but very much not deus ex machine.

[gmillerdrake]

In the case of Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale, we have:
1. Littlefinger discusses with Sansa plans to bring in the Vale forces to defeat either the Boltons or Stannis early in season 5.
2. Littlefinger gains permission from Cersei to take the Vale forces north to face the Boltons or Stannis (although obviously he lies about his true intentions) in the middle of season 5.
3. Littlefinger convinces Robyn Arryn to send Vale forces north to face the Boltons early in season 6.
4. Littefinger tells Sansa that the Vale forces are coming North and offers to help her defeat the Boltons in the middle of season 6.
5. Sansa originally refuses to accept the help of Littlefinger because she no longer trusts him, but after exhausting other options she writes to him to accept the help of the Vale forces - in the last episode she is shown before the Battle of the Bastards.

Then, at the Battle of the Bastards, Littlefinger and the Vale forces arrive and help defeat the Boltons, in a move that has literally been set up for almost two seasons and clearly foreshadowed the last time the North was shown. As far as other forces arriving to solve a problem, it is about as far from a deus ex machina as you can get. It may be another last minute cavalry charge, but people are right to point out that it is not a deus ex machina.

Perfect description of why the Knights of the Vale arriving was perfectly acceptable and expected. Maybe they could have written it differently....maybe the Knights of the  Vale arrive the night before and Jon Hides them to draw out the Boltons...or something along those lines but the episode would have lost that impending doom feel that GOT loves to pimp.


If I'm questioning things it's like....why didn't Ramsay send that aarrow straight into Jon's eye rather than Wun Wun's? Jon wasn't looking....just shoot him and be done with it? It's not like Ramsay was doing it out of honor....the dude is without honor. 

[gmillerdrake]

If it's any consolation, you probably have not been robbed of an event that would have come as a big surprise when it happened. Hopefully you can avoid seeing any more spoilers about the rest of season 6 until you have caught up. Although I'd be careful browsing this thread until you do.

Pretty much this. By the time it happens you'll have realized it was in the works. Consider it a mild spoiler.....

[Cyclopssss]

I was litterally yelling at my tv screen at the end: ´Not dead yet! Not dead yet! Keep beating him!´

When the end credits rolled I was almost shaking, going ´HOLY SHIT! what an episode!!´;D

Had to physically come down from the tension....