Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[gmillerdrake]

I don't think it matters if I saw it or not, it was there and SOMEONE should have noticed and said something.  Just like many of the plot holes this season.

Someone did notice it. But they didn’t say anything....let it happen....then took to the internet to ‘catch’ the mistake.

[KevShmev]

I re-watched it last night and the Starbucks thing is definitely in the background where there is no way most would have noticed it unless it was pointed out to them.  And it was like a 2-second shot. Not a big deal, really, as stuff like that gets missed all the time in TV and film.

I thought Bronn had the funniest line of the episode when he told Tyrion, "only death will shut you up."

[The Walrus]

I thought Bronn had the funniest line of the episode when he told Tyrion, "only death will shut you up."

My favorite was, "You broke my nose!" "I did not break your nose." "How do you know?" "'cause I've been breaking noses since I was your size and I know what it sounds like!" 

[cramx3]

I don't think it matters if I saw it or not, it was there and SOMEONE should have noticed and said something.  Just like many of the plot holes this season.

Someone did notice it. But they didn’t say anything....let it happen....then took to the internet to ‘catch’ the mistake.

so?  That's not really my point.  It's the idea the people making this show have a lot of blunders this season.  While this is really not a big deal, I think it's more funny than a big deal.  It just another one that is more literal.

[gmillerdrake]

[gmillerdrake]

I don't think it matters if I saw it or not, it was there and SOMEONE should have noticed and said something.  Just like many of the plot holes this season.

Someone did notice it. But they didn’t say anything....let it happen....then took to the internet to ‘catch’ the mistake.

so?  That's not really my point.  It's the idea the people making this show have a lot of blunders this season.  While this is really not a big deal, I think it's more funny than a big deal.  It just another one that is more literal.

I see  your point, completely. I don't know that there have been a lot of blunders.....but this one was. I guess in my eyes....kind of like we talked about yesterday with the 'negativity' that has surrounded this season unlike any other season.....this looks to be a case of 'build me up, break me down'.

This season/show was in a no win situation for this final season because no matter what it does/did it wasn't/will not be good enough to make everyone happy. There will be the majority of the fans (like me) that will take satisfaction from the season and finale for what it is and be fine with it. But there will be a contingent of 'fans' that are going to lambast this show at every turn....every choice....every outcome....and the finale of it just because that'll get them more views/likes/notoriety rather than they just said 'thanks HBO' for a fun 10 years.

[MirrorMask]

I thought Bronn had the funniest line of the episode when he told Tyrion, "only death will shut you up."

My favorite was, "You broke my nose!" "I did not break your nose." "How do you know?" "'cause I've been breaking noses since I was your size and I know what it sounds like!" 

It's more disturbing that Qyburn knows what's the sound of children burning alive 

The celebration at Winterfell was full of great lines, and I'm surprised to have not seen yet retwitted and reposted worldwide a meme of "Vomiting is not celebrating - yes it is".

Speaking of memes, do you know the historical scene from the Simpsons where "look, you can see the exact moment his heart breaks" referring to poor Ralph? that could be applied to Gendry, Tormund and Brienne, but also to Dany with a variation: "Look, you can see the exact moment in which she snaps and goes in full Fire and Blood mode".

But the way Missandei went out was badass. "Any last words?"

"Dracarys".

Code for "Kill them, Dany. Burn every single one of these motherfuckers to the ground."

[Adami]

I don't know about you guys, but after that coffee cup I can't watch GoT anymore. I have lost all respect for it. I actually plan on taking out a sizable loan, buying several hundred sets of GoT blu rays and burning them all.

It's the only rational response.

[Podaar]

 

[The Walrus]

I have to admit I'm very disappointed in the showrunners for willfully truncating this show. HBO wanted 10+ seasons from what I've read, and that would've given enough time to develop these things and allow for cleaner storytelling. Knowing that it's their decision to cut it down, and their explanation for Dany not seeing Euron's fleet... it's really disheartening

[RuRoRul]

Yeah, great movies / shows with a lot of attention to detail have errors like that in them as well, one small mistake slipping by I don't really see it as indicative of the quality or "effort" put into the overall filming. One of the earliest things I remember from the internet in the early 2000s was a site movie mistakes where I read loads of errors (some as glaring as this) about a lot of big budget films, including some of my all time favourites.

So "the coffee cup really shows how bad it is" (or any argument along those lines) doesn't really work for me - if people find something good they can let an error like the coffee cup slide, if people are finding it bad then they feel like "of course they'd make a mistake like that". So it's more about how the rest of the show makes people feel, rather than a small filming error. Which is the more important point (that people feel like there are holes or laziness in the show's story), but it just means that focusing on the cup to make the point doesn't really work as an argument.

[cramx3]

I don't think it matters if I saw it or not, it was there and SOMEONE should have noticed and said something.  Just like many of the plot holes this season.

Someone did notice it. But they didn’t say anything....let it happen....then took to the internet to ‘catch’ the mistake.

so?  That's not really my point.  It's the idea the people making this show have a lot of blunders this season.  While this is really not a big deal, I think it's more funny than a big deal.  It just another one that is more literal.

I see  your point, completely. I don't know that there have been a lot of blunders.....but this one was. I guess in my eyes....kind of like we talked about yesterday with the 'negativity' that has surrounded this season unlike any other season.....this looks to be a case of 'build me up, break me down'.

The show really didn't have any blunders until this season though.  At first I thought it was just me, then I thought it was us (the people upset with this season, as a whole) just being too critical, and now I'm starting to actually think the show really just dropped the ball in places where they used to excel and it's not us being too critical because you can't even argue with a coffee cup in the show.  As miniscule and un important as it is, it literally just shows what we've been feeling all along.  It's kind of poetic really.

I have to admit I'm very disappointed in the showrunners for willfully truncating this show. HBO wanted 10+ seasons from what I've read, and that would've given enough time to develop these things and allow for cleaner storytelling. Knowing that it's their decision to cut it down, and their explanation for Dany not seeing Euron's fleet... it's really disheartening

I don't know how they could do 10+ seasons and keep all the actors/actresses though.  I feel like maybe last season and this being 10 full episodes might have done the trick without adding too much new storylines. 

[gmillerdrake]

I have to admit I'm very disappointed in the showrunners for willfully truncating this show. HBO wanted 10+ seasons from what I've read, and that would've given enough time to develop these things and allow for cleaner storytelling. Knowing that it's their decision to cut it down, and their explanation for Dany not seeing Euron's fleet... it's really disheartening

From what I've read and gathered it sounds like all involved....show runners and actors.....were ready to 'be done' with the show and move on. And, that's kind of sad because it has affected how they've chosen to close the show out. On one hand I get it....on the other hand, if you're signed to a contract that's your job. If you were an actor signed on for 8 seasons @ (10) episodes then that is that. Same with the Show Runners. If you're wanting to do other things then quit and let someone else come in or if you're too proud to turn it over to other folks then man up and see it through to the end.

I agree that shortening these last two seasons for the sake of getting this done faster has been a bummer and has led to some odd choices and decisions and oversights for our characters they seem like they wouldn't have made....ala....how does Dany 'forget' about the Iron Fleet?

[The Walrus]

I think if 7 and 8 had been a full 10 episodes, then maaaybe a shortened season 9 would've worked...

As for the show not having blunders: it definitely had them. The entire Dorne plotline is just thrown away in the end and never amounted to much.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't know how they could do 10+ seasons and keep all the actors/actresses though.  I feel like maybe last season and this being 10 full episodes might have done the trick without adding too much new storylines.

Or, power it out and made S7 something like 14 or 16 episodes. You film for the year...year and a half....whatever.....then they are done and on to other things and 'you' (HBO) get the next year or so in post production...then release and that is that.

[cramx3]

The entire Dorne plotline is just thrown away in the end and never amounted to much.

What do you mean?! The new (unnamed and not shown) prince of Dorne has said he supports Dany in the last episode 

[The Walrus]

FYI apparently HBO digitally edited out the coffee cup so that is no longer an issue of any kind

[MirrorMask]

FYI apparently HBO digitally edited out the coffee cup so that is no longer an issue of any kind

I hope at the very least Dany didn't order it.

Dany: "A Westeroccino, please."
Waitress: "Sure! What's your name?
Dany: "Queen Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lady of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, Lady of Dragonstone, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons."
Waitress: "...........I hate this job"

[ariich]

I have to admit I'm very disappointed in the showrunners for willfully truncating this show. HBO wanted 10+ seasons from what I've read, and that would've given enough time to develop these things and allow for cleaner storytelling. Knowing that it's their decision to cut it down, and their explanation for Dany not seeing Euron's fleet... it's really disheartening

From what I've read and gathered it sounds like all involved....show runners and actors.....were ready to 'be done' with the show and move on. And, that's kind of sad because it has affected how they've chosen to close the show out. On one hand I get it....on the other hand, if you're signed to a contract that's your job. If you were an actor signed on for 8 seasons @ (10) episodes then that is that. Same with the Show Runners. If you're wanting to do other things then quit and let someone else come in or if you're too proud to turn it over to other folks then man up and see it through to the end.

I agree that shortening these last two seasons for the sake of getting this done faster has been a bummer and has led to some odd choices and decisions and oversights for our characters they seem like they wouldn't have made....ala....how does Dany 'forget' about the Iron Fleet?

I'm not sure we should entirely conflate two different things. I never had an issue with them shortnening the season and picking up the pace. There's nothing inherently wrong with that and in principle it was a sensible idea rather than dragging it out (although it was quite jarring happening immediately after the particularly slow-moving season 5). It's ultimately speculation to say that this was the driver behind questionable choices. Lazy writing can happen regardless of how many seasons/episodes are left.

To be honest, a lot of the issues that get talked about don't really bother me, in that I do think the writing isn't as nauanced and intricate as seasons 1-4 but it's still been a damn enjoyable show. For example, the time jumps and fast travel abilities are arguably driven by the increased pace but I'm comfortable enough with them, and even Dany getting shot down in the latest episode, while pretty silly, doesn't really bother me. I'm more concerned by the big picture stuff regarding the overall story arcs and key themes of the show, like I was saying the other day after episode 3. So while there things in episode 4 that I didn't like very much, none of them were major and overall I enjoyed it a lot.

[Phoenix87x]

Its was Sansa





She was trying to sabotage dany 

[ariich]

My favorite was, "You broke my nose!" "I did not break your nose." "How do you know?" "'cause I've been breaking noses since I was your size and I know what it sounds like!" 

It's more disturbing that Qyburn knows what's the sound of children burning alive 

That line from Bronn was my favourite too, but the Qyburn line was also fantastic - genuinely chilling.

[The Walrus]

Its was Sansa





She was trying to sabotage dany 

THE QUEEN IN DA NORF

[RuRoRul]

Yeah the push to have only one season and then to have two shortened seasons after season 6 always seemed like a mistake, I suppose they could have proved me wrong with Season 7 and 8 but that's not the case, since even the stuff that did work seems like it would have benefitted from being placed in a season that allowed better pacing and more breathing room between the big events.

It wasn't a case of the studio pushing it to end quickly - HBO was willing to have more seasons full seasons. I think HBO would have renewed them for more seasons as long as they kept getting viewers (though if they went with longer seasons I imagine they'd have to make essentially the same budget work for more episodes, so if there are problems with sets / CGI then they might have ended up even more thinly stretched), but keeping all the cast longer would be difficult. There are other shows that run for 10+ years with the same cast but most of them tend to be things with a quite simple setup - filming something like Game of Thrones is a lot more onerous on actors (location, action, elaborate costume / make-up) so maybe not something that they'd want to keep up as a sort of stable gig for years and years.

I do think it's unfortuante though - George RR Martin's ideas of running for 12 or 13 seasons adapting his constantly expanding story and world is a pipe dream, and keeping everyone involved on for as long as 10 seasons might be unfeasible (and it's questionable if it'd be worth it if it was just spinning its wheels), but I don't think there's much of a case for the show not being able to benefit from just having 8 full length seasons (with maybe some longer episodes towards the end in addition).

[MirrorMask]

The problem for me is that they calculated the story and miscalculated the necessary plot developments and world building.

What's left after season 6 could be indeed just 13 episodes of story - Dany reaches Westeros, she loses some battle, she gets convinced to get a truce with Cersei for the wight show and tell, they decide to face the White Walkers who invade Westeros and get defeated, and then it's the final showdown Jon / Dany vs. Cersei.

But the necessary character developments to make all those plot points happened left a lot to be desired, and felt rushed. Some more episodes and some more dialogue, plotting, planning and discussing would have done wonders to justify better the actions of the characters, or to present more clearly some pivotal moments, rather than having just the shocks for "OMG LOOK WHAT HAPPENED" reactions, nevermind that Arya flies in the air or that Euron has invisible ships.

For example - I get Dany going crazy, I don't like it and don't want it but I accept it and maybe that was George Martin's plan all along, but even if the writing was subtly on the wall, having it all happed in one episode is way too fast. Yeah, she showed signs of snapping but in one episode she feels isolated at Winterfell AND loses the dragon in a way that makes no sense AND loses her friend, advisor and confidant. This could have happened over the course of 2-3 episodes.

[ariich]

Ok so the coffee cup doesn't bother me in the slightest, I just think it's an amusing gaffe.

But this seems like a bigger and weirder blunder - they've literally moved King's Landing so that it's now landlocked: https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27390765/game-of-thrones-season-8-fans-confused-change-kings-landing/

[ariich]

The problem for me is that they calculated the story and miscalculated the necessary plot developments and world building.

What's left after season 6 could be indeed just 13 episodes of story - Dany reaches Westeros, she loses some battle, she gets convinced to get a truce with Cersei for the wight show and tell, they decide to face the White Walkers who invade Westeros and get defeated, and then it's the final showdown Jon / Dany vs. Cersei.

But the necessary character developments to make all those plot points happened left a lot to be desired, and felt rushed. Some more episodes and some more dialogue, plotting, planning and discussing would have done wonders to justify better the actions of the characters, or to present more clearly some pivotal moments, rather than having just the shocks for "OMG LOOK WHAT HAPPENED" reactions, nevermind that Arya flies in the air or that Euron has invisible ships.

For example - I get Dany going crazy, I don't like it and don't want it but I accept it and maybe that was George Martin's plan all along, but even if the writing was subtly on the wall, having it all happed in one episode is way too fast. Yeah, she showed signs of snapping but in one episode she feels isolated at Winterfell AND loses the dragon in a way that makes no sense AND loses her friend, advisor and confidant. This could have happened over the course of 2-3 episodes.

Sure but that's not about the number of episodes, it's about what they chose to do with them. That all got crammed into a 1.5 hour episode because the previous 1.5 hour episode was entirely spent on a single one-night battle.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

For example - I get Dany going crazy, I don't like it and don't want it but I accept it and maybe that was George Martin's plan all along, but even if the writing was subtly on the wall, having it all happed in one episode is way too fast. Yeah, she showed signs of snapping but in one episode she feels isolated at Winterfell AND loses the dragon in a way that makes no sense AND loses her friend, advisor and confidant. This could have happened over the course of 2-3 episodes.

I also feel like Danny's turn was abrupt. Don't get me wrong - I always knew she had a few screws loose. But I still felt like she was 51% or more good. I really hope she doesn't go completely off the rails, and then Jon has to kill her. I'm hoping that he brings her back down to Earth in the end.

[The Walrus]

I think Dany's intentions are good, but she's lost so much so quickly, she's down another dragon, she lost one of her top advisers and close friends, she's so close to what she's worked so hard to get, I don't blame her for finally snapping and letting all the pent up rage at Cersei really boil over. The question to us as viewers is do the ends justify the means? Is it really worth plowing through Cersei's bluff and killing so many innocents in the name of perceived destiny? For me, no, it's not, and I hope she doesn't kill innocent civilians, but I think she will. She is a Targaryen and far too headstrong and up her own ass to choose a different plan. Her ignorance and arrogance already cost her two dragons.

[ariich]

I think Dany's story arc has been one of the things the show has done consistently well. Her journey from good intentions in the early seasons to prioritising power above all else has been pretty clear and I find it surprising that lots of people don't seem to be aware of it or think it's been sudden.

I'll actually be disappointed if she doesn't go off the rails because the show has been setting this up over years. I'm not saying I have specific expectations about whether she goes full villain or not, whether Jon has to kill her, whether she can ultimately be talked back down etc. But if she doesn't snap at all, it feels like another major story arc that ends up not really going anywhere.

[The Walrus]

I agree. I still think it would be awesome if she attacks King's Landing in a blind rage, Drogon goes down, and she ends up captured by Cersei, but I would like something more surprising, too.

[Chino]

I agree. I still think it would be awesome if she attacks King's Landing in a blind rage, Drogon goes down, and she ends up captured by Cersei, but I would like something more surprising, too.

Throw her in that dungeon with Ellaria and Tyene!

[Adami]

It's not that we don't think Dany's arc doesn't make sense. It just went from being well paced and nuanced to very fast and very blunt. I, and others it seems, are just a bit thrown by the change to it in that way. Plus the whole point is that she was learning to NOT be the mad king. So just to have her throw it all away and be the mad queen anyway, just feels like a bit of a disappointment, you know? The show asked us to invest years in her, and then be like "Nahhh she just cray, enjoy the fire and explosions!" just feels a bit cheap.

[The Walrus]

I think that's the point of her arc though, isn't that kinda poetic? I can see how it's rushed to some, but the tale of an apparently destined heroine failing to achieve that goal and unknowingly becoming what she fought against seems rather tragic and compelling, to me at least.

[cramx3]

I don't have issues with Dany's arc. It makes sense to me. I hate seeing her go Mad King for my own personal reasons, but it's within her character to do so IMO.  Maybe planting all those seeds in one episode is a lot, but it's been there for awhile with lots of hints.  She's got no one left that she trusts and the one she did, Jon, told their secret so I'd imagine that trust is gone too.  At this point, I'd be more surprised if she doesn't go all mad king.  But all of that is GOOD storytelling IMO.  There's plenty of foundation to lead to this. 

[MirrorMask]

There's also the problem with how people would react, both her friends and the rest of the realm.

Let's say she snaps and burns down the Red Keep - Cersei and her buddies are dead, long live the new queen! pity for some scores of civilians roasted alive, shit happens. Now her intentions are to rule justly, it's not that because she burned Cersei down she wants to burn the rest of Westeros or make everyone starve with taxes and the likes.

But maybe some random house really is annoyed at how she burned down the capital, so they fear she's another mad Targaryen and they rebel. She burns them down, they asked for it, now can we move on to her being a rightful and decent monarch pretty please? but the allies of the destroyed house rebel as well and she has to kill them as well, now if people would just leave me alone and I can show them I am right and fair....

I mean, it's a tricky spiral she's going down to, in her mind it could all be about "Ok, I burn the bitch down and then my peaceful reign begins", but the next "just this one last time" enemy to burn down could potentially be always around the corner.