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[orcus116]

I don't think the money is a problem anymore. He should just move on to other projects.

[Chino]

He should just move on to other projects.

[ReaPsTA]

That aspect of the character dynamic is explained once in a line of dialog that I didn't even catch the first time I saw the movie. And when we find out Jake mated with her, it's not really explicitly mentioned that Tsu'tey's woman was taken from him. If you're gonna do that, well, okay. It's cliche and silly but I can roll with it. But commit to your character arcs.

I think it was kept on the down low on purpose. I wasn't meant to stand out. I think it will play more into the drama in the sequel.

Why did he have to die? If he lives, you get two interesting scenes:

 - When Jake rides in on the big bird, because he's an elder, he can provide more perspective on why it matters.

 - He could directly pass the torch of leadership over to Jake after the final battle.

Atukan knew that Jake still wasn't 100% a Na'vi, even though he was one of the people. Tsu'tey is the new chief. That was the plan from the beginning, again going back to what Grace said early on. I think Jake will finally become the chief in the sequel. I didn't expect Atukan to die so early in the film. I thought for sure it was going to be in the final battle

Dude, how many times did you see the movie? You realize Tsu'tey died, right?

And the thing about Toruk choosing its rider doesn't fly. It's not in the movie at all from what I understand.

Neytiri said a hunter must choose his ikran, and the ikran must also choose him. This was right before Jake selected his ikran. Trust me on this one.

Ikran, not Toruk.

And I still want to know why the Na'vi immediately accept him back into their tribe. But since we're supposed to think they're an idealistic species, then tell me what's idealistic about them accepting Jake because he rode a big bird.

Because the last time it was done, Neytiri's grandfather's grandfather rode Turok and brought the clans together in a time of great sorrow. She said that all Na'vi know this story. When seeing Jake on Turok, I believe all the Na'vi saw it as a sign from Ewa, and immediately knew what it meant. They also didn't except him back right away. Most of them seemed dumbfounded and didn't know what to make of it. It wasn't until after he made his speech that he was truly back on their side.

Neytiri immediately wanted to bone him again. Tsu'tey immediately treated him with respect. And, once again, we're supposed to buy that an idealized group of people are that prone to superstition.

Again though, you do have a point. God is a good way to write yourself out of character conundrums.

Why does she die except to die? I read an early draft of the script where she dies because she actually has to. In the final movie, she just does.

She doesn't just die. She tried taking out the main ship by shooting the hell out of the cockpit. I know it is a stretch, but it was never confirmed she died. She could have ejected or something right before the explosion and we may see a flashback to that in the sequel.

Dude, no. She's dead and she died purposelessly.

*Wouldn't it have been a more interesting character arc if Norm died for the Na'vi cause, thus transforming from a pretentious science nerd to someone who really cares about the subjects he's helping?

You also have to remember that at the end of the film when they chose to only keep a select few humans, there were several Avatars standing there holding guns. That means that the labs must still be in use and Norm and that black guy (don't know his name) are there to operate them. Again, I think this will play a big part into the sequel.

Is Avatar really good movie to make a sequel to? Then again, this is Cameron, I shouldn't judge so quickly.

[Chino]

Dude, how many times did you see the movie? You realize Tsu'tey died, right?

From what I understand, Tsu'tey doesn't die right away. We don't actually see him die. Just because he fell (I know he was shot as well) doesn't mean he died immediately. Jake fell from a similar height an survived. I sure we will see how it played out in either the directors cut or the sequel.

And I still want to know why the Na'vi immediately accept him back into their tribe. But since we're supposed to think they're an idealistic species, then tell me what's idealistic about them accepting Jake because he rode a big bird.

Because at that point they knew that Jake was telling the truth and was indeed on their side. Neytiri shows this when she says "I see you" By Jake taking a risk as big as catching Turok, showed the Na'vi he meant business.

Neytiri immediately wanted to bone him again. Tsu'tey immediately treated him with respect. And, once again, we're supposed to buy that an idealized group of people are that prone to superstition.

I don't think it was immediate, but it was quick. It had to be to keep the movie at a reasonable length, and to keep the flow. When he lands Turok, everyone including Tsu'tey is confused as fuck and actually look a little scarred. I think that given the circumstances, their best bet was to trust Jake at that point.

Dude, no. She's dead and she died purposelessly.

I don't understand how that is purposelessly. It's not like she accidentally flew into a floating mountain. She was defeated in a legit way.

I don't think Ewa is real, and it's tough to believe that knowing (a) Cameron doesn't believe in any kind of deity and (b) if I understand correctly, Cameron's definition of religious fulfillment is based on being able to through your own actions and connection to life satisfy the religious urges in you. Based on that, it would seem Cameron tried to create a planet where the intelligent life (Na'vi) are able to satisfy that religious need by literally connecting to each other electronically. Cameron himself is most likely going to favor science over religion in any debate.

The only thing that makes me think that Ewa must be real is the fact that Jake was able to transfer his energy from one body to the other. How else could this have been possible?

Is Avatar really good movie to make a sequel to? Then again, this is Cameron, I shouldn't judge so quickly.

If the sequel was planned with the original script (which it was), I think it will be fine. If Cameron made the movie and because of it's success forced a sequel, I would say I would be skeptical.

[orcus116]

Well since you'd be the best one to challenge, please tell me what in this movie that hasn't been wrapped up would possibly make for an interesting sequel in any way. And I'm talking from a good story standpoint not a "let's see how the two scientists left work with the Na'vi" standpoint cause you'd probably be the only one who would find that interesting. Not trying to dig but you seem to find Cameron's version of the South American rainforest with Native Americans a little too fascinating.

[Chino]

 Norm and the black guy aren't the only two humans left. All the avatars at the end of the movie holding weapons are also there in human form. The humans from Earth are going to come back for another fight. I guarantee that. The Na'vi tactics that worked the first time around will not work in the sequel. My guess is that with Jake and all the humans there, are going to humanize the Na'vi. We will teach them many human techniques that they haven't discovered yet. I'm not saying weapons like we have today, but maybe something along mid evil lines. The humans could show the Na'vi how to heat and shape metal, making armor for themselves and their ikrans. Perhaps showing them how to make catapults or trebuchet type things. Instead of relocating and moving in with another tribe, the Ometecya might choose to stay near the tree of souls. Jake and the other humans could teach them how to build structures to live in, instead of having to live in a tree.

We have only seen a small portion of Pandora. Cameron could open us up to unseen parts of the moon with all kinds of different life and possibly more intelligent species than the Na'vi.

It may be something entirely out there. Something like another alien race all together begins to attack and take over Pandora for different reasons. The Na'vi are forced into being slaves or something. The humans after some time to think feel sorry for what they did and go back to Pandora to join forces with the Na'vi.

I would also be curious to see the state of the Earth in the next movie.

The Humans were supposedly all sent back to Earth. However, the Na'vi at least from what we have seen are not capable of travelling extremely long distances. The humans could just as easily relocated to the other side of Pandora and are formulating a new plan. The Na'vi living there would have no idea. The human plan could now be something along the lines of creating an Avatar army, I'm talking thousands of avatars that move near by to the Ometecya and try to fool them all by acting and dressing like them from the start.

We saw no oceans on Pandora or anything that lives in it's oceans. I would like to see a harsh winter forcing a mass migration or something along those lines.

Sorry that wasn't a little more organized, I was just running ideas off the top of my head as they came to me.

[Scurvy!Dreams]

Are you getting black and East Indian confused, or do I just not remember the black guy?

[Chino]

Are you getting black and East Indian confused, or do I just not remember the black guy?

The guy with the glasses that Jake told to stay behind because he needed someone on the inside he could trust.

[Scurvy!Dreams]

This guy? https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2438307/

[Chino]

I think so.

[orcus116]

Norm and the black guy aren't the only two humans left. All the avatars at the end of the movie holding weapons are also there in human form. The humans from Earth are going to come back for another fight. I guarantee that. The Na'vi tactics that worked the first time around will not work in the sequel. My guess is that with Jake and all the humans there, are going to humanize the Na'vi. We will teach them many human techniques that they haven't discovered yet. I'm not saying weapons like we have today, but maybe something along mid evil lines. The humans could show the Na'vi how to heat and shape metal, making armor for themselves and their ikrans. Perhaps showing them how to make catapults or trebuchet type things. Instead of relocating and moving in with another tribe, the Ometecya might choose to stay near the tree of souls. Jake and the other humans could teach them how to build structures to live in, instead of having to live in a tree.

We have only seen a small portion of Pandora. Cameron could open us up to unseen parts of the moon with all kinds of different life and possibly more intelligent species than the Na'vi.

It may be something entirely out there. Something like another alien race all together begins to attack and take over Pandora for different reasons. The Na'vi are forced into being slaves or something. The humans after some time to think feel sorry for what they did and go back to Pandora to join forces with the Na'vi.

I would also be curious to see the state of the Earth in the next movie.

The Humans were supposedly all sent back to Earth. However, the Na'vi at least from what we have seen are not capable of travelling extremely long distances. The humans could just as easily relocated to the other side of Pandora and are formulating a new plan. The Na'vi living there would have no idea. The human plan could now be something along the lines of creating an Avatar army, I'm talking thousands of avatars that move near by to the Ometecya and try to fool them all by acting and dressing like them from the start.

We saw no oceans on Pandora or anything that lives in it's oceans. I would like to see a harsh winter forcing a mass migration or something along those lines.

Sorry that wasn't a little more organized, I was just running ideas off the top of my head as they came to me.

While I can see that maybe being popcorn movie entertaining none of that really jumps out as being necessary. I just don't think any of the characters in the movie were interesting enough to watch again for two and a half hours. Maybe Cameron should just move on to Aquaman.

[ReaPsTA]

Dude, how many times did you see the movie? You realize Tsu'tey died, right?

From what I understand, Tsu'tey doesn't die right away. We don't actually see him die. Just because he fell (I know he was shot as well) doesn't mean he died immediately. Jake fell from a similar height an survived. I sure we will see how it played out in either the directors cut or the sequel.

The emotional tenor of the scene is obviously that Tsu'tey dies.

Tsu'tey far less ambiguously dies in an earlier draft of the script.

Tsu'tey didn't just fall, he was filled with bullet holes.

He's dead.

And I still want to know why the Na'vi immediately accept him back into their tribe. But since we're supposed to think they're an idealistic species, then tell me what's idealistic about them accepting Jake because he rode a big bird.

Because at that point they knew that Jake was telling the truth and was indeed on their side. Neytiri shows this when she says "I see you" By Jake taking a risk as big as catching Turok, showed the Na'vi he meant business.

Neytiri immediately wanted to bone him again. Tsu'tey immediately treated him with respect. And, once again, we're supposed to buy that an idealized group of people are that prone to superstition.

I don't think it was immediate, but it was quick. It had to be to keep the movie at a reasonable length, and to keep the flow. When he lands Turok, everyone including Tsu'tey is confused as fuck and actually look a little scarred. I think that given the circumstances, their best bet was to trust Jake at that point.

Did we watch the same movie?

Dude, no. She's dead and she died purposelessly.

I don't understand how that is purposelessly. It's not like she accidentally flew into a floating mountain. She was defeated in a legit way.

Movies are about character. Her death was a crappy ending for her character. I liked the original version where she sacrificed herself a lot more. It actually meant something.

I don't think Ewa is real, and it's tough to believe that knowing (a) Cameron doesn't believe in any kind of deity and (b) if I understand correctly, Cameron's definition of religious fulfillment is based on being able to through your own actions and connection to life satisfy the religious urges in you. Based on that, it would seem Cameron tried to create a planet where the intelligent life (Na'vi) are able to satisfy that religious need by literally connecting to each other electronically. Cameron himself is most likely going to favor science over religion in any debate.

The only thing that makes me think that Ewa must be real is the fact that Jake was able to transfer his energy from one body to the other. How else could this have been possible?

Look up the transhumanist movement. There are scientists trying to figure this very thing out. And I should have clarified, as the doctor explains, the planet very clearly has some kind of mind or consciousness or whatever. I'm just saying it's not a diety.

Is Avatar really good movie to make a sequel to? Then again, this is Cameron, I shouldn't judge so quickly.

If the sequel was planned with the original script (which it was), I think it will be fine. If Cameron made the movie and because of it's success forced a sequel, I would say I would be skeptical.

I just don't get it. There are certainly plots you could put into a sequel. But what's the story that needs to be told?

[Bombardana]

Does anyone else think it is pretty likely that, in the sequel, Jake will be able to communicate with Grace using one of those special Trees?

[ariich]

Plus that would make one boring ass sequel. I don't really get why people are eluding to movie sequels for movies that are obviously standalone. Take District 9 for instance. The guy said "I'll see you in 3 years" at the end, big fucking deal. Suddenly everyone is pointing to that as the evidence of a sequel next to the side note that everyone was moved to District 10. What possibly could happen in a potential sequel that is interesting enough to have taken part during that time period? The main characters story is over which pretty much mean the movies story is over. I feel like moviegoers are getting exponentially more retarded.

(sorry for the little sidetrack but it was appropriate in context with Scurvy's point)

Pretty sure Cameron already said that a sequel would not follow the same characters and would simply be set in the same world. There's no reason at all that wouldn't work.

And same with District 9, there's no reason that a sequel wouldn't work, particularly if it went in a slightly different direction.

[Chino]

Plus that would make one boring ass sequel. I don't really get why people are eluding to movie sequels for movies that are obviously standalone. Take District 9 for instance. The guy said "I'll see you in 3 years" at the end, big fucking deal. Suddenly everyone is pointing to that as the evidence of a sequel next to the side note that everyone was moved to District 10. What possibly could happen in a potential sequel that is interesting enough to have taken part during that time period? The main characters story is over which pretty much mean the movies story is over. I feel like moviegoers are getting exponentially more retarded.

(sorry for the little sidetrack but it was appropriate in context with Scurvy's point)

Pretty sure Cameron already said that a sequel would not follow the same characters and would simply be set in the same world. There's no reason at all that wouldn't work.

And same with District 9, there's no reason that a sequel wouldn't work, particularly if it went in a slightly different direction.

Right, the humans could come back like 150 years later, long after Jake and Neytiri are gone. It would be cooler for me to see Pandora change more than Jake.

[orcus116]

Maybe the humans will feel bad and let the Na'vi build tax free casinos back on Earth.

[ariich]

[emindead]

Michelle character was just written very poorly. I saw an interview of her describing her role and she started to say so much things about her character and the purpose of her in the movie, all and all I was thinking, "yeah, maybe that's what the script described your character, but you sure as hell looked like an extra in that movie. You changed your mind with no apparent reason. Like I said some pages ago, that "I didn't sign for this" was the most unconvincing move the movie could take. Why did you change your mind, what gave us clues that you were actually on the good side? As I said, maybe your script and Cameron told you what the purpose of your character was, but I sure as hell didn't see anything in the movie to make me think it was plausible for your character to change her mind".

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe the humans will feel bad and let the Na'vi build tax free casinos back on Earth.

[Scurvy!Dreams]

Dude, how many times did you see the movie? You realize Tsu'tey died, right?

From what I understand, Tsu'tey doesn't die right away. We don't actually see him die. Just because he fell (I know he was shot as well) doesn't mean he died immediately. Jake fell from a similar height an survived. I sure we will see how it played out in either the directors cut or the sequel.

The emotional tenor of the scene is obviously that Tsu'tey dies.

Tsu'tey far less ambiguously dies in an earlier draft of the script.

Tsu'tey didn't just fall, he was filled with bullet holes.

He's dead.

Remember when you thought I (among others) was a moron because I thought Two-Face could have survived a fall from 2 stories up? Good times.

[ReaPsTA]

Remember when you thought I (among others) was a moron because I thought Two-Face could have survived a fall from 2 stories up? Good times.

And then I was vindicated when one of the Nolans confirmed he was dead.

Why am I seemingly the only person with the basic ability to perceive "fall + dramatic but not too dramatic music = dead."

[Sigz]

Maybe the humans will feel bad and let the Na'vi build tax free casinos back on Earth.

[Scurvy!Dreams]

Remember when you thought I (among others) was a moron because I thought Two-Face could have survived a fall from 2 stories up? Good times.

And then I was vindicated when one of the Nolans confirmed he was dead.

Why am I seemingly the only person with the basic ability to perceive "fall + dramatic but not too dramatic music = dead."

Oh no, Tsu-tey is obviously deader than dead. I was just pointing out that the Harvey Dent thing is very sensible in comparison.

[reneranucci]

Michelle character was just written very poorly. I saw an interview of her describing her role and she started to say so much things about her character and the purpose of her in the movie, all and all I was thinking, "yeah, maybe that's what the script described your character, but you sure as hell looked like an extra in that movie. You changed your mind with no apparent reason. Like I said some pages ago, that "I didn't sign for this" was the most unconvincing move the movie could take. Why did you change your mind, what gave us clues that you were actually on the good side? As I said, maybe your script and Cameron told you what the purpose of your character was, but I sure as hell didn't see anything in the movie to make me think it was plausible for your character to change her mind".

I agree with you but at the same time I think thatīs a very generic move in many movies (and the role of the guy-on-the-other-side-that-helps-us-and-has-access-to-better-weapons too), so it didnīt bother me at all. The thing is that I never saw her as being on the evil side, from the beginning she looked like a symphatetic character that was willing to change her mind at any time.

[ReaPsTA]

Oh no, Tsu-tey is obviously deader than dead. I was just pointing out that the Harvey Dent thing is very sensible in comparison.

True.

I agree with you but at the same time I think thatīs a very generic move in many movies (and the role of the guy-on-the-other-side-that-helps-us-and-has-access-to-better-weapons too), so it didnīt bother me at all. The thing is that I never saw her as being on the evil side, from the beginning she looked like a symphatetic character that was willing to change her mind at any time.

I bought that she wouldn't fire on home tree with the incendiary rounds. That made enough sense. She never was that person. She flew science sorties before that mission.

[axeman90210]

Maybe the humans will feel bad and let the Na'vi build tax free casinos back on Earth.

[Chino]

I agree with you but at the same time I think thatīs a very generic move in many movies (and the role of the guy-on-the-other-side-that-helps-us-and-has-access-to-better-weapons too), so it didnīt bother me at all. The thing is that I never saw her as being on the evil side, from the beginning she looked like a symphatetic character that was willing to change her mind at any time.

I bought that she wouldn't fire on home tree with the incendiary rounds. That made enough sense. She never was that person. She flew science sorties before that mission.

She was the personal transport for Grace and her team for a length of time we do not know. She would spend much more time with them than just the time they flew. This can be seen when the go to the floating mountains of Pandora and she hangs out with them for the length of the missions. She knew the Na'vi better than most pilots, thanks to Grace and her team. The only thing that bugs me about the movie was why she even went with the mission to destroy home tree to begin with. She new what was going to happen. She told Grace and Jake that the gun ships were getting rolled in. If she knew she wasn't going to attack, why would she have gone in the first place?

[bosk1]

Dude, don't read too much into it.  It was just a movie (and not a particularly great one at that).  Just have fun with it and let stuff like that go.  It wasn't meant to be realistic.  If it was, her character development would have completely ended when instead of being free to continue to help the "good guys," she was thrown in the brig to wait for her court marshall for disobeying orders (refusing to fire on Home Tree).  

[Bombardana]

I don't think it's so unlikely that no one noticed she wasn't firing. Personally I'd be more concerned with the gigantic tree falling over in front of me.

[Volk9]

I don't think it's so unlikely that no one noticed she wasn't firing. Personally I'd be more concerned with the gigantic tree falling over in front of me.

[bosk1]

Not at all.  The command ship should have been monitoring all ships and would know what they were doing.  And surely they would have noticed a ship flying away from the action.  But even aside from that, every round of ammunition is accounted for by the military.  If her ship returned to base and logged that it had not fired, that would definitely raise a flag.

[Bombardana]

Not at all.  The command ship should have been monitoring all ships and would know what they were doing.  And surely they would have noticed a ship flying away from the action.  But even aside from that, every round of ammunition is accounted for by the military.  If her ship returned to base and logged that it had not fired, that would definitely raise a flag.

But they are not the military, they are a private security detail. I think it's unfair to assume that they have the same strict operative regulations.

[ReaPsTA]

But they are not the military, they are a private security detail. I think it's unfair to assume that they have the same strict operative regulations.

That makes zero sense. Everything we're shown about them indicates they function, for all intents and purposes, like the military.

It would have made a little more sense if she fired her weapons, but we intentionally saw her firing them away from the tree or something.

[Bombardana]

Alright, I really don't want to debate it, let's agree to disagree.
To those who were saying that Avatar 2 would not be a continuation of the same characters: https://screenrant.com/james-cameron-talks-avatar-2-spider-man-reboot-bad-3d-ross-45795/

[Chino]

 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2vR8w2sjc&feature=player_embedded#