2021 NFL Thread v. Super Bowl 56: Rams vs Bengals

[Dublagent66]

Oh, and how is Dak Prescott not in the top 5 for MVP?  That's a head scratcher for sure. 

How so? Yes, he is very valuable to his team, but that can be said for all of the best 10-12 QBs in the league, and Dallas is running the ball extremely well the last three weeks, which directly correlates with their winning streak, so as good as Dak is, this is similar to his rookie year in that Dallas simply wins more when they are running the ball well.  Dak is not really a Mahomes or a Brady or a Allen who can lead his team to many wins with little to no running game.  People salivated over his passing numbers last year before he got hurt, but they weren't winning most of those games.

Disagree.  Dak is a top 5 QB easily.  Especially after coming back from such a severe injury.  I think you need to re-evaluate your analysis.

Prescott is really good, but top 5?  No way, IMO.

Talking how good they are, not necessarily value...

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson (even though he just got hurt), L. Jackson, Josh Allen. That right there are six guys who I would absolutely put ahead of him, no questions asked.  I would be pretty comfortable putting Dak 7th right now, although you could argue Kyler Murray as well. Herbert needs more experience before I can put him up there.

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

[Stadler]

If Dak can make the rest of his career look like this year - as opposed to the year before his injury - he's a top 5 QB.  He's NOTICEABLY matured in the year he's had off.  I was never a fan, but now, grudgingly, I am.

[KevShmev]

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

I think KC and Seattle having the two worst defenses in the league has a little to do with that, no?  Dallas ' defense ins't great either and gives up a lot of yards, but have forced the 2nd most turnovers.  Dallas also has TWO of the top 10 RBs in rushing this season.  So, again, while Dak has been very good, a dominant running game and an opportunistic defense are the main reasons why they are 4-1.

Besides, if we are looking at just this season, then Dak being 13th in QBR, 19th in pass attempts and 7th in yards per attempt all have to be taken into consideration, yes?

[Stadler]

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

I think KC and Seattle having the two worst defenses in the league has a little to do with that, no?  Dallas ' defense ins't great either and gives up a lot of yards, but have forced the 2nd most turnovers.  Dallas also has TWO of the top 10 RBs in rushing this season.  So, again, while Dak has been very good, a dominant running game and an opportunistic defense are the main reasons why they are 4-1.

Besides, if we are looking at just this season, then Dak being 13th in QBR, 19th in pass attempts and 7th in yards per attempt all have to be taken into consideration, yes?

I'm not sold on this "KC's problem is defense" argument.   The KC defense has always been something less than the Steel Curtain of the 70's; they were winning a lot of 45-42 games two years ago; they were the 2019 version of the '84 Dolphins.  They won a Super Bowl by stepping up when it counted and holding a good team to 20 points.   Now this year, instead of winning 42-38 to a team like Buffalo, they are losing 38-20 to a Buffalo team.

The fact is, they are NOT running a rodeo offensively this season, and they are NOT winning those games where the D stinks up the house and they WERE winning those games two years ago.

[TheCountOfNYC]

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

I think KC and Seattle having the two worst defenses in the league has a little to do with that, no?  Dallas ' defense ins't great either and gives up a lot of yards, but have forced the 2nd most turnovers.  Dallas also has TWO of the top 10 RBs in rushing this season.  So, again, while Dak has been very good, a dominant running game and an opportunistic defense are the main reasons why they are 4-1.

Besides, if we are looking at just this season, then Dak being 13th in QBR, 19th in pass attempts and 7th in yards per attempt all have to be taken into consideration, yes?

I'm not sold on this "KC's problem is defense" argument.   The KC defense has always been something less than the Steel Curtain of the 70's; they were winning a lot of 45-42 games two years ago; they were the 2019 version of the '84 Dolphins.  They won a Super Bowl by stepping up when it counted and holding a good team to 20 points.   Now this year, instead of winning 42-38 to a team like Buffalo, they are losing 38-20 to a Buffalo team.

The fact is, they are NOT running a rodeo offensively this season, and they are NOT winning those games where the D stinks up the house and they WERE winning those games two years ago.

There are two possible reasons that this could be the case.

1) The Chiefs are playing hurt: Now I don’t mean the team is hiding injuries from the league, but the Chiefs have played more football over the past three seasons than any other team, having gone to two Super Bowls and three AFC Championship games. The team could be fatigued. Football is a physically unforgiving sport, and after three years of deep playoff runs, the wear and tear could be catching up and the players’ bodies just might not be able to do as much due to being worn down. If this is the case, an early playoff exit or missing the postseason entirely could be a good thing as it will allow the team to get some rest, which will be especially important now with the extra regular season game.

2) Defenses have figured out better strategies: While I do believe my first point holds water, I think this is the biggest reason for the Chief’s decline this season. Once you have enough game film out there, good teams will have plenty of footage to review and use it to learn how to stop you. Them losing the way they did in Super Bowl 55 was huge for the rest of the league, as Tampa gave the other 30 teams the blueprint for how to stop Mahomes and Co. Now it’s up to Kansas City to fix their defense and start making offensive adjustments, or they risk falling even further from grace.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I think right now the MVP front runner is a complete tossup between Murray, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Brady and Prescott. Fortunately we have 13 more weeks to see how this all shakes out. Still plenty of time for any or all of the aforementioned to play themselves out of the race, or for guys like Mahomes, Stafford and Rodgers to play themselves in (or Derrick Henry, if crowning a non QB MVP wasn't such a rarity).

[KevShmev]

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

I think KC and Seattle having the two worst defenses in the league has a little to do with that, no?  Dallas ' defense ins't great either and gives up a lot of yards, but have forced the 2nd most turnovers.  Dallas also has TWO of the top 10 RBs in rushing this season.  So, again, while Dak has been very good, a dominant running game and an opportunistic defense are the main reasons why they are 4-1.

Besides, if we are looking at just this season, then Dak being 13th in QBR, 19th in pass attempts and 7th in yards per attempt all have to be taken into consideration, yes?

I'm not sold on this "KC's problem is defense" argument.   The KC defense has always been something less than the Steel Curtain of the 70's; they were winning a lot of 45-42 games two years ago; they were the 2019 version of the '84 Dolphins.  They won a Super Bowl by stepping up when it counted and holding a good team to 20 points.   Now this year, instead of winning 42-38 to a team like Buffalo, they are losing 38-20 to a Buffalo team.

The fact is, they are NOT running a rodeo offensively this season, and they are NOT winning those games where the D stinks up the house and they WERE winning those games two years ago.

Okay, I will rephrase: KC's defense is their biggest problem.  Yes, the offense has their issues at the moment, and yet they are still putting up over 30 a game, but the defense is allowing 33 points a game.  It is unrealistic to expect any offense to overcome a defense giving up 33 a game.  And if we just want to ignore the stats and just do the eyeball test, they fail big time there.  Their defense just looks atrocious.  The Bills were gashing them last week and there was little resistance more often than not. 

[DragonAttack]

That was both an epic comeback by the Ravens AND an epic choke by the Colts.

I will never understand these coaches who get gutless in key moments.  The Colts had moved the ball all night, led the Ravens 25-17 with like 5 minutes or so left, knew the Ravens offense had gotten rolling, and by staying aggressive by both running and throwing the ball the Colts went right down the field and got in borderline FG range (I say borderline because their kicker apparently was not totally healthy), so what do they do?  Get conservative, run the ball on every down, lose 2 yards on the three plays, and have to attempt a FG on 4th and 12...and the FG is blocked.    When that FG was blocked, I said it then, the Ravens are winning this game.  You can't bungle moments like that against a team that has gotten that much momentum on the other side of the ball.

Can't agree more with the above, especially with the issues the kicker was having that night, and that they couldn't play defense in the 2nd half.

Would have really enjoyed the Browns-Chargers, but our affiliate didn't carry the AFC game.  Our late game was Cowboys-Giants

[KevShmev]

That was both an epic comeback by the Ravens AND an epic choke by the Colts.

I will never understand these coaches who get gutless in key moments.  The Colts had moved the ball all night, led the Ravens 25-17 with like 5 minutes or so left, knew the Ravens offense had gotten rolling, and by staying aggressive by both running and throwing the ball the Colts went right down the field and got in borderline FG range (I say borderline because their kicker apparently was not totally healthy), so what do they do?  Get conservative, run the ball on every down, lose 2 yards on the three plays, and have to attempt a FG on 4th and 12...and the FG is blocked.    When that FG was blocked, I said it then, the Ravens are winning this game.  You can't bungle moments like that against a team that has gotten that much momentum on the other side of the ball.

Can't agree more with the above, especially with the issues the kicker was having that night, and that they couldn't play defense in the 2nd half.

Would have really enjoyed the Browns-Chargers, but our affiliate didn't carry the AFC game.  Our late game was Cowboys-Giants

Cowboys/Giants being the NFL late game of the week instead of 49ers/Cardinals just shows how much power Jerry Jones has and what a negative that can be for NFL fans.  Yes, the Cowboys playing the crappy ass Giants needs to be the game of the week instead of the only undefeated team taking on a 2-2 team from their own division.  That was the only game on here in the late afternoon and I didn't even turn it on.  I know, I know, the Cowboys get ratings, and that is why they get the game of the week so much, but it's a sham that fans do not often get the best games on television as a result.

Case in point again this week: why is the number 1 CBS team (Nantz and Romo) doing Dallas vs 2-3 New England, when they also have the 4-1 Chargers playing the 4-1 Ravens?  Stupid.

[Stadler]

We are talking about this year right?  I get the Murray argument.  Herbert and Allen are up there too, but what have Mahomes and Wilson done this year?  They're teams are both 2-3 and at/near the bottom of their divisions respectively.  Kinda seems since Dak plays for Dallas, that he doesn't get the respect and recognition he deserves.  Just sayin'...

I think KC and Seattle having the two worst defenses in the league has a little to do with that, no?  Dallas ' defense ins't great either and gives up a lot of yards, but have forced the 2nd most turnovers.  Dallas also has TWO of the top 10 RBs in rushing this season.  So, again, while Dak has been very good, a dominant running game and an opportunistic defense are the main reasons why they are 4-1.

Besides, if we are looking at just this season, then Dak being 13th in QBR, 19th in pass attempts and 7th in yards per attempt all have to be taken into consideration, yes?

I'm not sold on this "KC's problem is defense" argument.   The KC defense has always been something less than the Steel Curtain of the 70's; they were winning a lot of 45-42 games two years ago; they were the 2019 version of the '84 Dolphins.  They won a Super Bowl by stepping up when it counted and holding a good team to 20 points.   Now this year, instead of winning 42-38 to a team like Buffalo, they are losing 38-20 to a Buffalo team.

The fact is, they are NOT running a rodeo offensively this season, and they are NOT winning those games where the D stinks up the house and they WERE winning those games two years ago.

Okay, I will rephrase: KC's defense is their biggest problem.  Yes, the offense has their issues at the moment, and yet they are still putting up over 30 a game, but the defense is allowing 33 points a game.  It is unrealistic to expect any offense to overcome a defense giving up 33 a game.  And if we just want to ignore the stats and just do the eyeball test, they fail big time there.  Their defense just looks atrocious.  The Bills were gashing them last week and there was little resistance more often than not.

I don't disagree with any of that, really, except to say, when people were annointing Mahomes as the greatest thing since sliced bread, the iPod and the Model T, none of that was a factor.  He's come back down to reality and now the real fun begins.  I'm still excited if I'm a Chiefs fan, but it's reality now.

[Dublagent66]

Stats don't tell the whole story.  If you see a team and how they rally around their QB's leadership and they are all better for it, that's the dynamic that really counts.  Stats are just two dimensional.

[dparrott]

At least the Chargers and Rams are doing good, at least I got that.

[faizoff]

A lot of talk about the taunting call at the end of the game last night. The call seemed mostly right but.. what exactly is the point of this rule? Players jaw and eye each other all the time and they keep talking smack, really weird rule to include or enforce rigorously this year.

And Bucs secondary injuries keep piling up. Playing 3 games in the span of 11 days doesn't help.

[KevShmev]

The taunting call was bad, especially since Fournette popped in and make contact with him first, but not sure it mattered.  It just meant that the Bucs likely run the clock out with the benefit of those 15 yards.

I was amused at the official trying to stop an Eagle defender from blocking Tom Brady in the middle of a live play after an INT.  As if we needed more proof that TB12 is protected like no other.   

[Stadler]

A lot of talk about the taunting call at the end of the game last night. The call seemed mostly right but.. what exactly is the point of this rule? Players jaw and eye each other all the time and they keep talking smack, really weird rule to include or enforce rigorously this year.

And Bucs secondary injuries keep piling up. Playing 3 games in the span of 11 days doesn't help.

I'm with you on that; there's no doubt that was the right call under the rule, but it seems so... unnecessary in the grand scheme of things.

And whether it ACTUALLY mattered or not is up for debate, but that's why the Eagles are not a good team.  Don't take the chance.  You've got a game to win, and you're not helping your team in that situation.

[Stadler]

The taunting call was bad, especially since Fournette popped in and make contact with him first, but not sure it mattered.  It just meant that the Bucs likely run the clock out with the benefit of those 15 yards.

I was amused at the official trying to stop an Eagle defender from blocking Tom Brady in the middle of a live play after an INT.  As if we needed more proof that TB12 is protected like no other. 

Were there two incidents like that? Because I saw the CENTER come over and help Brady - which is his job - but I don't recall seeing a ref do that.

[King Postwhore]

Oh yeah the ref did.  Though in all honesty you hit any QB a penalty would be called.

[KevShmev]

Mahomes just made a really bad decision and threw an awful INT.

*cues the bat signal for Bill*

[Stadler]

[TAC]

The Pats/Cowboys game has been nuts so far.

[King Postwhore]

The Pats/Cowboys game has been nuts so far.

💯

[TAC]

What does that mean?

[KevShmev]

Meanwhile, the Broncos are getting it handed to them at home by a Raiders team that has had a nightmare of a week and change.  Vic Fangio is the worst head coach in NFL history. 

[King Postwhore]

What does that mean?

You're 100% correct you old bastard 

[TAC]

Meanwhile, the Broncos are getting it handed to them at home by a Raiders team that has had a nightmare of a week and change.  Vic Fangio is the worst head coach in NFL history. 

Maybe it was Gruden that sucked.

[TAC]

How can the Cowboys' receivers be so fucking open?

[KevShmev]

Meanwhile, the Broncos are getting it handed to them at home by a Raiders team that has had a nightmare of a week and change.  Vic Fangio is the worst head coach in NFL history. 

Maybe it was Gruden that sucked.

No, it's Fangio.  He is supposed to be a defensive guy, yet they gotten eaten alive last week by Old Big Ben and today can't stop the Raiders and their cast of no-name WRs.

[KevShmev]

How can the Cowboys' receivers be so fucking open?

Dak's leadership is getting them open.

[TAC]

I don't get that, but sure. Maybe that's it.

[KevShmev]

I don't get that, but sure. Maybe that's it.

Dallas weapons everywhere, and a very good QB to get them the ball.  Cooper can be mr. inconsistent, but is really good when he feels like playing, and Lamb is an emerging star.  Throw in their underrated TE and those two RBs and they are a tough offense for anyone to slow down.

[King Postwhore]

I still can't believe we are in this game. The possession time is ridiculous.

[TAC]

Awful.

[KevShmev]

Wow, what a crazy sequence.  The Hoodie wishing he still had Cam.

[TAC]

Cam finally got vaccinated!

[TAC]

WTF??