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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Anxiety35 on March 30, 2019, 10:31:48 AM
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With the success of the new album and the apparent success of the north American tour so far, I'm going to pose a question. After this tour cycle is over...
...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Before you fling poo at me, please hear me out. For one, I would love for DT to keep making music forever but we all know that can't happen. I am not saying that I want them to hang it up, because I don't. However, all good things must come to an end, right? Why not go out when you're seemingly on top?
There are so many other bands that are still going but their newer music is mediocre or just plain bad. Fans like the classics but even the classics played live are not good anymore. YouTube is your friend. Find an older band's live material from the past year or two and you'll see what I mean.
I'm sure every band says they have one more album in them or something really special left to do musically. It's part of the artistic and creative mindset. But when do you know when it's time to call it quits?
Pro athletes usually know when to hang it up even if they could continue on. Rob Gronkowski just retired from football. All of us think he could play another 2-5 years but he knew it was time. He just went out on top after winning a Super Bowl. Others will hang on as long as they can and they are a mere shell of their former selves.
I don't want DT to be a shell of their former selves. I'd like them to go out on top. With JR turning 63 this year, MM & JLB turning 56, and the Johns turning 52, I think we're approaching this idea sooner than later.
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It makes no financial sense for them to retire, as they're still going strong.
Even leaving the business aside, they're all in good shape and passionate about their craft. Why should they quit just because they're all 50 or older? when you have a lifelong passion and you're 30, one thing is assuming "Well, I guess I won't be doing this as 60". But as those 60's approaches and you're fit and healthy and still passionate, why retire? just to have people say "they went out while on top"? the new album seems generally quite acclaimed but still there are many people who think they're past their prime, so you'll have people saying anyway that they should have quit alongside Portnoy, or after The Astonishing, or earlier or later. No way a band, and especially one so divisive as DT, can retire with everyone patting themselves on their shoulders and saying "yeah, we all agree that they went out at the top". Everyone will have a different idea of what the top was / were.
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It makes no financial sense for them to retire, as they're still going strong.
Even leaving the business aside, they're all in good shape and passionate about their craft. Why should they quit just because they're all 50 or older? when you have a lifelong passion and you're 30, one thing is assuming "Well, I guess I won't be doing this as 60". But as those 60's approaches and you're fit and healthy and still passionate, why retire? just to have people say "they went out while on top"? the new album seems generally quite acclaimed but still there are many people who think they're past their prime, so you'll have people saying anyway that they should have quit alongside Portnoy, or after The Astonishing, or earlier or later. No way a band, and especially one so divisive as DT, can retire with everyone patting themselves on their shoulders and saying "yeah, we all agree that they went out at the top". Everyone will have a different idea of what the top was / were.
I agree with you. My point wasn't due to their age although age may have something to do with it. If any band can keep on cranking out good music, it's DT. But, there will come a day when they decide to hang it up.
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With the band dynamic they have going on, they aren’t really capable of making “bad” music, so I don’t understand the OP.
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If they keep making good music, I’ll keep buying. :)
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Rob Gronkowski has had more injuries and surgery in his young life than most families will experience in their household from birth to death. I think it's smart for him to retire and hopefully be healthy and in less pain than he might if he were to continue.
If DT aren't facing physical issues, they're still having fun, they still want to make new music, and still want to tour, I think that's exactly what they should do.
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I hope they never stop.. I would rather here a watered down DT even if they were in their 80's than have no new DT at all. That very thought scares me.
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With the success of the new album and the apparent success of the north American tour so far, I'm going to pose a question. After this tour cycle is over...
...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Maybe a 5 year haitus? :neverusethis:
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As someone in their age category consider the poo flung :biggrin: Seriously, they've got many good years left in them.
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No way. They're on top of their game.
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Yeah it wouldn’t make much sense for them to quit now.
The new album was extremely well received, they seem to be having good sell-through on the current tour, and they are still physically able to play the material live. LaBrie has struggled slightly especially on the older material, but they can make adjustments and, honestly, he sounded amazing live when I heard him on the tour. He still has gas in the tank as far as touring goes. Most importantly, fan seem to want more.
The ONLY reason they would hang it up now is if their hearts just weren’t in it anymore. And that certainly doesn’t seem to be the case.
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With the band dynamic they have going on, they aren’t really capable of making “bad” music, so I don’t understand the OP.
This.
It makes no financial sense for them to retire, as they're still going strong.
And this.
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Is this a troll? What a strange topic. The band is still at the top of their game, and the new album is probably one of my favorites. It seems like the band still has much more to offer.
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Is this a troll? What a strange topic.
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They have way too much left in their tank to call it quits. Long live the King's!!! :metal
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I don't even understand what is going on here.
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Are you asking same question to the Rolling Stones which wants 15k dollar for meet and greet? Or Metallica, Judas Priest or Iron Maiden if we consider age factor?
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It isn't odd that a fan of a band might acknowledge that maybe it's time for that band to retire. I felt like that about Rush several years ago, not because the band sucked, but because it seemed like the perfect time to elegantly step aside and leave us an untainted legacy. However, I personally don't think Dream Theater came to that point yet. They've got about ten more years in them, I think.
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I hope they never stop.. I would rather here a watered down DT even if they were in their 80's than have no new DT at all.
Same here, and I'd suggest Octogenarium as a perfect album title when they get there. :biggrin:
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I hope they never stop and simply adapt to their age and physical abilities. I have no objections to, say, an acoustic Dream Theater album within the next 10 years.
But when they inevitably do call it a day, I hope they go out with a bang just the way Rush did. Right now? Nah, Distance Over Time shows there's still fire in that band and I think Mangini especially is more comfortable than ever. Keep the goods coming!
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Why? Is this sports?
Wishing an act to stop making music before they possibly flop is akin to wishing somebody to die before they possibly croak.
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Yeah, I'm with the guy above me. We're not maintaining statistics here. If there's music in them, let them keep releasing it. There's no sign that they're tired of what they're doing. I can't think of a single sensible reason for an artist to call it quits other than he or she is out of ideas. That clearly isn't the case with Dream Theater, who are still producing music of exceptional quality and seem to love doing it.
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Is this a troll? What a strange topic. The band is still at the top of their game, and the new album is probably one of my favorites. It seems like the band still has much more to offer.
No. I'm not a troll. Not trying to cause controversy. I've been a DT fan since 1994. Personally, like I said in my OP, I would love for DT to keep making music forever but we all know that can't happen. I just threw it out there to see what others thought, not to bash the band. And no, I don't think it's time for them to call it a day but I'm not them either.
I love the new album. I plan to see them on this tour. As I think about it, I'm 42 years old now and DT has been my favorite band since 1994 when I was 17 years old. That's a long time. It has to end at some point.
Hey, if they still have it in them to keep going (and I hope that's the case), I'm still supporting, listening, buying, etc.
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Anxiety, you are aptly named! :lol
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I think Jordan is the only one close enough call it quits. He is 62 so he is not getting any young. Also, he is been doing a lot outside DT activities besides DT and solo albums: solo concerts, the Stanford thing, etc. Maybe its purpose is to get his name there for a movie score or a shot to work in an orchestra as a composer...something less chaotic than traveling the world in a rock band.
Aside the above, I don't see them stopping.
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Add the fact that JLB confirmed on stage during Friday night's show they are doing another album from the same secluded area/barn as DoT, my Magic 8-Ball says all signs point to "NO".
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Add the fact that JLB confirmed on stage during Friday night's show they are doing another album from the same secluded area/barn as DoT, my Magic 8-Ball says all signs point to "NO".
wow, really? Ok. Did he mention something else concerning that?
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Add the fact that JLB confirmed on stage during Friday night's show they are doing another album from the same secluded area/barn as DoT, my Magic 8-Ball says all signs point to "NO".
wow, really? Ok. Did he mention something else concerning that?
Nothing too specific, other than that they had a great time doing it and it went so well for them that they would be doing the next album there also. No specific date was mentioned. They ended the show with "We'll see you next time", so that could mean anything really.
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The fact that there will be DT15 is a relief as it is IMHO. (although I had to get used to the sound on D/T being as ambient and open as it is to be honest, but if they liked their stay there,it's logical for them to come back to there I think). Sorry about my excitement. Carry on.
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They have no need for retirement as they don't have any issue to be on the road. But the thing they should really think about is that they need to think James's voice. Maybe acustic tour or new album with lower vocal lines should be considered.
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I can definitely see your point here, as I am an avid sports fan and I always want my favorite players to go out on top rather than tainting their legacy with with some poor performances at the end of their career. So I've thought about this with DT as well, and here are some thoughts.
To me, there are a couple distinguishing differences between the athlete and musician as far as this goes.
First off, I think the downfall of the athlete is much more dramatic/sudden as they get older. While aging absolutely affects musicians (especially singers and drummers), I think it is much more impactful on an athlete who relies on their body, speed, strength and endurance - almost by definition of the word athlete.
Second, I think the legacy of an athlete can be more negatively impacted by poor performance in their final years, especially in individual sports such as boxing and MMA. This is because the fans of these types of sports are so infatuated with wins and losses. MMA fighter Georges St. Pierre just retired on top. He fought for years at 170 pounds, and decided to move up to 185 pounds to fight for a belt. He ended up winning, and decided to call it quits and retire on top after a couple years of indecision. Because of his amazing career and going out on top, many people consider him to be the pound for pound greatest.
On the other end of the spectrum is MMA fighter Anderson Silva. He was considered to be almost invincible when he was in his prime. 16 straight wins, many of them title defenses. But after his first loss in the UFC, he decided to take many more fights. He has won some and lost some, but he looks like a shell of his former self. A fighter who was once universally considered the Greatest of All Time, he is seldom called that anymore. Had he retired before his first loss, that air of mystery would have led many people to continue calling him the greatest.
With bands/artists, there isn't as much of an importance placed upon things like this since there are no "wins and losses". They will still always be cemented as arguably the definitive prog metal band, because albums such as I&W, SFAM, and SDoIT will always wash the bad taste out of the mouth of a poor modern album, should they release one.
Also, to echo the sentiments of your OP about them being on top - I totally agree! From what I have heard of the tour, James is on fire!!! I ordered tickets to see them in PA in a couple weeks, can't wait.
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Add the fact that JLB confirmed on stage during Friday night's show they are doing another album from the same secluded area/barn as DoT, my Magic 8-Ball says all signs point to "NO".
That's nice to hear! Thanks for sharing. :)
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Add the fact that JLB confirmed on stage during Friday night's show they are doing another album from the same secluded area/barn as DoT, my Magic 8-Ball says all signs point to "NO".
That's nice to hear! Thanks for sharing. :)
They should stay in that barn until they have three albums then release them every two years to tour them. :)
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...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
April Fool's Day, right?
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As someone that didn't really think the last 3 albums were very good... yeah, afraid so.
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Shame some here think/assume the question is an April Fools Day joke. DT, whether you want to believe it or not, are at the latter end of their career, even with the very high quality of their music in recent years. They might have two or three albums left in them before age catches up. I have often pondered this. Like, would fans be happy with a DT album with very little shredding or fast keyboard solos?
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"They might have two or three albums left in them before age catches up"
The same was said about Iron Maiden back in 2003 when they announced they would scale down the tours and have them mainly in the summer. Every album was like "ok, let's enjoy this 'cause it might be the last" and they're still going strong. The last album from DT also proves that we don't have to fear a next output with no shredding and no keyboard solos.
Yes, they are in the latter part of their carrer but they could potentially go on on strong levels for many years yet.
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With the success of the new album and the apparent success of the north American tour so far, I'm going to pose a question. After this tour cycle is over...
...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
No.
Why not go out when you're seemingly on top?
Putting aside the fact that DT probably has various commitments to its record label, if you feel like you still have something to offer the music loving world, retiring solely because you've put out a good album and are doing a successful tour would be patently silly. By this reasoning, Paul McCartney should have stopped making music when the Beatles broke up.
There are so many other bands that are still going but their newer music is mediocre or just plain bad. Fans like the classics but even the classics played live are not good anymore. YouTube is your friend. Find an older band's live material from the past year or two and you'll see what I mean.
I don't know whom specifically you're talking about, but I know many bands for which this is true and many for which it isn't, so this sort of generalization simply doesn't work.
For me, DT isn't even close to needing to retire becoming a shell of its former self.
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They haven’t exactly made St. Anger, so yeah nowhere near the cliff. Lockable thread imo.
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As long as they still feel they have more to give, and enjoy what they're doing, I see no reason for them to quit.
If they were to go out while on top they might as well have retired after SFAM.
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They are going to go until they finally make it to Indonesia.
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They are going to go until they finally make it to Indonesia.
:rollin
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As someone that didn't really think the last 3 albums were very good... yeah, afraid so.
But that would deprive those of us that loved the last 3 albums of more music.
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The one great thing about DT (like Rush and Iron Maiden) is that they've managed to keep things relatively fresh, both in the studio and live. Although they've relied upon nostalgia a bit more in recent tours (SFAM and I & W), they haven't gone the Def Leppard/Journey/FOreigner/Poison route of only playing the same hits over and over and over again. Every tour is its own unique experience, not only in terms of the set, but also in terms of the production.
As long as they are able and willing to keep everything fresh, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't go for another 10 years or so.
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...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Definitely not. If you don't want more DT music just stop listening to it.
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...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Definitely not. If you don't want more DT music just stop listening to it.
:tup :tup :tup
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...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Definitely not. If you don't want more DT music just stop listening to it.
I never said that I don't want more DT music. Of course I do. We all do.
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The one great thing about DT (like Rush and Iron Maiden) is that they've managed to keep things relatively fresh, both in the studio and live. Although they've relied upon nostalgia a bit more in recent tours (SFAM and I & W), they haven't gone the Def Leppard/Journey/FOreigner/Poison route of only playing the same hits over and over and over again. Every tour is its own unique experience, not only in terms of the set, but also in terms of the production.
As long as they are able and willing to keep everything fresh, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't go for another 10 years or so.
I agree with this. Good post!
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...should Dream Theater call it quits and retire?
Definitely not. If you don't want more DT music just stop listening to it.
Agreed. It's like when a new movie sequel comes out and people say "Oh, no why don't they just stop??!". I always say, well then don't see it. I don't complain about the local event center having Swan Lake playing on Saturday. I just don't go. Problem solved.
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I agree with others above that they've done a great job of balancing nostalgia with new material. I don't think we'll ever see DT playing the casino/county fair circuit, milking Pull Me Under and hocking merch to make a buck. They should persist as long as their artistic vision and musical ability remain vibrant. Judging from the trajectory that D/T and the current tour puts them on, we will be enjoying exciting new output from them for a long time to come, age be damned.
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Once this tour is completed they should most definitely retire......this album anniversary, play it in its entirety stuff. They should also run back in the studio and do a six/seven song, 10 to 12 minutes per song record. Keep on keeping on, DT.
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I don't think they should give it up. Why would they, or any athlete for that matter?
The way I think of it is you bust your ass learning your instrument, playing in a band, trying to make it and you finally do, you are making money doing what you love, why not keep doing it? The guys in DT are in a very small group of musicians who can keep touring and make money, they seem to enjoy the life and still enjoy making music so they should keep doing so, they shouldn't stop because some arbitrary limit. If you think the best days have past and the music doesn't appeal to you anymore then you don't have to listen or follow the band. There are so many other factors that can take you out of the game, i.e. people no longer paying to see you/not sustainable to tour and make music/band breaks up/injury that prevents you from playing, relish the time you have left.
Think of it this way, you could argue that IaW was when DT hit it big, they had a song on TV and were doing really well, what if they called it quits then? Two albums and done? Sure some people would wonder what happened and if there would've been more great music but no one would know, same can be said if they stopped after DoT.
I feel the same for Athletes, you've worked your life to achieve the top tier of performance in your respective sport why quit?
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I find this discussion pretty weird. DT have not released a bad album, they haven't even released anything that comes close to a bad album. Not even a bad song!
I think the comparison with bands that only live off their hits from 40 years is very out of place. So they wanna celebrate two important albums from their past by playing them in its entirety. But they still deliver awesome music every 2 years and play it live. Unlike Yes for example.
Also: another thread with a clickbait title??
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Also: another thread with a clickbait title??
It's especially annoying on a forum like this where a thread title can't be previewed by putting the mouse cursor it. And a topic like this doesn't really need a clickbait title.
I despise clickbait titles. They are one of the most annoying Internet trends that have cropped up over the last few years like those articles that start with "Why" or "The Truth About..."
Sorry for the rant. Nothing against Anxiety35. Live long and prosper.
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A band hanging it up is such a weird question. Unlike athletes, however, whose physical skills erode to a level that they simply overstay, musicians can still create music at the highest level if their passion for creating is there. Even a guy like Peart, who has retired, could still, after some practice, get into the studio and cut a record featuring a performance he'd be proud of. It was just the rigors of the road that was too much.
As fans, its difficult. For me, until Distance Over Time, I honestly thought DT was done, at least for me. I saw the I&W anniversary tour as a send-off to me as a fan. Go out with my favorite record from theirs, despite knowing it would be a challenge for JLB to pull off live. And it was, but I still had a good time. I thought that was it. But then I bought Distance Over Time, and was blown away, and equally blown away at the live show. I couldn't imagine them retiring at this point.
I hear ya -- leave on an up note. But what "up" is, could be entirely different to each person in the band, and all of us individually. So, no, I don't wish for them to retire, nor do I think they "need" to. But I hope, if a guy like JP decides he's done, whether that's tomorrow or 10 years from now, the guys don't try to "carry on."
Anyway, interesting thread, as I think it should be obvious to everyone that DT is most likely in the back half of their career. JP is 51, JLB is 55, and hell, JR is 62. Honestly, can JR stay on the road like this at 72? Can JLB still sing at a level befitting the DT catalog at 65? Other bands do it, but its rare that those bands really sound authentic, and DT's music is over-the-top complicated. So I think the thread and question is a fair one. I just think the answer isn't really yes/no.
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Also: another thread with a clickbait title??
It's especially annoying on a forum like this where a thread title can't be previewed by putting the mouse cursor it. And a topic like this doesn't really need a clickbait title.
I despise clickbait titles. They are one of the most annoying Internet trends that have cropped up over the last few years like those articles that start with "Why" or "The Truth About..."
Sorry for the rant. Nothing against Anxiety35. Live long and prosper.
No offense taken. I understand. It would be cool to put a mouse cursor over the title to preview.
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A band hanging it up is such a weird question. Unlike athletes, however, whose physical skills erode to a level that they simply overstay, musicians can still create music at the highest level if their passion for creating is there. Even a guy like Peart, who has retired, could still, after some practice, get into the studio and cut a record featuring a performance he'd be proud of. It was just the rigors of the road that was too much.
As fans, its difficult. For me, until Distance Over Time, I honestly thought DT was done, at least for me. I saw the I&W anniversary tour as a send-off to me as a fan. Go out with my favorite record from theirs, despite knowing it would be a challenge for JLB to pull off live. And it was, but I still had a good time. I thought that was it. But then I bought Distance Over Time, and was blown away, and equally blown away at the live show. I couldn't imagine them retiring at this point.
I hear ya -- leave on an up note. But what "up" is, could be entirely different to each person in the band, and all of us individually. So, no, I don't wish for them to retire, nor do I think they "need" to. But I hope, if a guy like JP decides he's done, whether that's tomorrow or 10 years from now, the guys don't try to "carry on."
Anyway, interesting thread, as I think it should be obvious to everyone that DT is most likely in the back half of their career. JP is 51, JLB is 55, and hell, JR is 62. Honestly, can JR stay on the road like this at 72? Can JLB still sing at a level befitting the DT catalog at 65? Other bands do it, but its rare that those bands really sound authentic, and DT's music is over-the-top complicated. So I think the thread and question is a fair one. I just think the answer isn't really yes/no.
Your answer is similar to mine.
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Anyway, interesting thread, as I think it should be obvious to everyone that DT is most likely in the back half of their career. JP is 51, JLB is 55, and hell, JR is 62. Honestly, can JR stay on the road like this at 72? Can JLB still sing at a level befitting the DT catalog at 65? Other bands do it, but its rare that those bands really sound authentic, and DT's music is over-the-top complicated. So I think the thread and question is a fair one. I just think the answer isn't really yes/no.
I'm sure they'll start slowing down eventually, or resorting to a more 'normal' "opening band, then headliner" format, where they don't have to play for as long. But the thing is, at their core, they're musicians who very clearly love what they do. They love making new music and they love being on stage, and I think they'll keep doing it for as long as they possibly can (i.e. until potential health issues prohibit them), and I fully support that. If it's something they love to do, and something that still allows them to earn a living, then arbitrarily retiring would not only be pointless, it would be foolish.
If that time ever does come, and they say that maybe it's time to let the band rest, I'm sure that they'll announce it ahead of time, and release a new album that they'll pour all of their creative energy into, and follow that up with a hell of a bombastic tour where they'll give it all they got, and that will be how they go out on a high note. But if they don't do that, and instead keep playing into their 70s, until they can no longer play fast, and just keep doing it for as long as they're able to be on stage, I'll still come out and happily support them. But they're nowhere near that, they're still going strong, and this tour is a proof of that. The energy is fantastic, so there's absolutely no reason why they should think about retiring now, or any time soon.
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I don't necessarily know about the age thing. I saw John McLaughlin play last year, and he is 77. His music is at least as complex as Dream Theater's, and he was absolutely incredible.
I don't get the impression that the members of Dream Theater are in any worse shape physically than he is.
I bet they can go for almost as long as they want. The fact that Rudess is in his early 60s isn't that meaningful, as long as he isn't suffering from arthritis.
I would imagine that the first to be physically unable to continue would be Mangini, just due to the physical toll he pays from playing drums.
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I would imagine that the first to be physically unable to continue would be Mangini, just due to the physical toll he pays from playing drums.
It's those high cymbals.
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WWRD
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I would imagine that the first to be physically unable to continue would be Mangini, just due to the physical toll he pays from playing drums.
Wouldn't it make more sense for JLB to be that person? After all, vocals are harder on the body than drums are, even if it doesn't seem like it. Maybe vocals don't contribute to arthritis though lol
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The drummer is the only musician that has not the luxury to be more comfortable. A singer can walk less around. Guitar players and keyboard players can sit. A drummer can't make the job easier or a little more comfortable for him.
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The reason RUSH can't tour any longer is cuz Peart physically couldn't keep up. He didn't want to half-ass anything.
Specifically, I think the voice is the first thing to go, but like MM said, it can be adjusted whereas drums really can't compared to that and the other instruments.
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You can rearrange drums to where it's not as taxing on the upper body to play. The legs are a different story. There are different techniques you can use with pedal playing and posture plays a role. Mangini looks like he has good posture. However, over time the fingers, wrists, elbows shoulders, back and hips take a toll.
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Those are very true points that I hadn't considered.
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Either way, they most certainly should use it while they still got it.