Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Prog Snob]

I never got that that weirdwood-face was supposed to be the Three-Eyed Raven's face. I suppose it kinda looks like it, but anyone got a source on that?

Well, again, unless they are changing things massively from the novels, the TER isn't thousands of years old, so it isn't really HIS face.

I think it's the other way around. I think because he has been a part of that tree for so long that he took on the tree's face.

Not to nitpick. I think all of the trees in the godswood are weirwood trees, but the ones with the faces are Heart trees.  As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure heart trees can be other types of trees, like in the godswood of the Red Keep.

[Progmetty]

Also, is it me or all the White Walkers are played by the same four dudes? I swear that a long haired one is the same that Jon killed in Hardhome.

I think the bunch we saw with the Night King at Hardhome and the ones we've seen in the episode The Door are all the white walkers that exist, just an impression I got.
The Night King is easy to distinguish as he's the only one without a beard, all his lieutenants have long hair and/or beards, they're taller and have a generally older appearance so they look fairly similar, I thought the same thing as you did and I checked Hardhome to see if any of them look exactly like the one Jon killed, they look of a similar age and appearance but they're not identical.

[BlackInk]

I think there are probably more actual White Walkers. Most likely almost a hundred based on what we know.

[cramx3]

I think there are probably more actual White Walkers. Most likely almost a hundred based on what we know.

I disagree, it seems there might be 13. 



I agree though that besides the Nights King, they mostly look the same.

[cramx3]

Which btw just watched the video of where that picture is taken from

https://youtu.be/XhyLKJgd8Zw

and seeing that again, does that look this ritual look like it could have taken place on a weirwood tree stump that's been frozen over?!

[Progmetty]

I think there are probably more actual White Walkers. Most likely almost a hundred based on what we know.

I disagree, it seems there might be 13. 

Minus the 3 Jon, Sam and Meera killed and plus that baby white walker, assuming a baby white walker grows into a full on BD white walker soon after that ritual.
Which actually brings me to a thought I had rewatching The Door again yesterday, Meera killed a white walker with the same kind of spear the child of forest tried to kill him with a moment before and fails, thoughts:
- It's odd that the child of forest didn't know normal weapons are ineffective against the white walker as she tried to stab him with the spear, highly unlikely.
- They could have had just the one dragon glass/Valyrian steel spear in the cave, also highly unlikely IMO, especially when it wasn't kept anywhere special, Meera just grabbed it off the floor.
- It's revealed that the white walkers were made of dragon glass and it's probably why it kills them, why was Jon able to kill one with Valyrian steel? We're assuming because it comes from the same place dragons came from and because we actually saw Jon kill one with Longclaw.
So my crazy thought is that Jon Snow didn't manage to kill that white walker in Hardhome because Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but because of who Jon Snow is and the same goes for Meera who killed the white walker with a mere spear.
The weakness in this theory is that Jon did grab a different sword in Hardhome and attempted to attack the white walker with it but it shattered upon contact with the walker's weapon, which if my theory was true would mean that Valyrian steel could withstand a hit from the walker's weapon but it won't kill the walker himself unless it was yielded by Jon Snow or Meera and that's a bit of a far shot.

[BlackInk]

The Child hit the walker in its armor, and wasn't strong enough to get through. Meera hit it in the neck, where it had no armor.

[MirrorMask]

I'm afraid there may be a chance that this brainstorming is based on some continuity error from the authors, and so we may go nuts trying to make sense of something that may be a mistake. I hope not.

[seasonsinthesky]

assuming a baby white walker grows into a full on BD white walker soon after that ritual.

Is that part of book lore or just an assumption? I got the impression the child was a sacrifice or just consumed by the Night's King. I mean... they ARE supposed to be evil.

If they wanted another walker, why would they want a child? Stick a shard of dragon glass in a kid and you get a kid walker, from the looks of things. Kinda useless.

I am operating on zero book knowledge here.

[BlackInk]

I think there are probably more actual White Walkers. Most likely almost a hundred based on what we know.

I disagree, it seems there might be 13.

We have more hints than that scene though. There are likely a lot more. There's no real confirmation on that though.

assuming a baby white walker grows into a full on BD white walker soon after that ritual.

Is that part of book lore or just an assumption? I got the impression the child was a sacrifice or just consumed by the Night's King. I mean... they ARE supposed to be evil.

If they wanted another walker, why would they want a child? Stick a shard of dragon glass in a kid and you get a kid walker, from the looks of things. Kinda useless.

I am operating on zero book knowledge here.

They probably don't use the same type of magic that the Children used, so they can probably not handle the dragonglass. And yes, when the Night King touched the baby, the baby's eyes turned into exactly how the White Walkers' eyes look, so it is rather safe to assume that it was turned into another walker.

And even book readers are basically just guessing here. At this point, we don't really know much than anyone else. The White Walkers/Others show up even more rarely in the books and we know next to nothing about them. It has never even been mentioned in the books yet that they have a leader.

[Progmetty]

assuming a baby white walker grows into a full on BD white walker soon after that ritual.

Is that part of book lore or just an assumption? I got the impression the child was a sacrifice or just consumed by the Night's King. I mean... they ARE supposed to be evil.

If they wanted another walker, why would they want a child? Stick a shard of dragon glass in a kid and you get a kid walker, from the looks of things. Kinda useless.

It's an assumption, I don't know what the point of the sacrifice would be though if not to create a new white walker, we just have to imagine they grow pretty fast.

And even book readers are basically just guessing here. At this point, we don't really know much than anyone else. The White Walkers/Others show up even more rarely in the books and we know next to nothing about them. It has never even been mentioned in the books yet that they have a leader.

So how to we know what the book version of the night king was a former lord commander of the night's watch as opposed to the show where he was a presumably normal first man?

[seasonsinthesky]

They probably don't use the same type of magic that the Children used, so they can probably not handle the dragonglass. And yes, when the Night King touched the baby, the baby's eyes turned into exactly how the White Walkers' eyes look, so it is rather safe to assume that it was turned into another walker.

And even book readers are basically just guessing here. At this point, we don't really know much than anyone else. The White Walkers/Others show up even more rarely in the books and we know next to nothing about them. It has never even been mentioned in the books yet that they have a leader.

That's fair enough. I didn't remember the shots of actual transformation.

I thought about it more, and where I've arrived is that the 'wiggle room' is in two sort of levels of Walkers: the First Men transformed by dragon glass level (just the Night King only?), and the Crastor's sons transformed by the touch of the Night King level.

The reason I separate the two is because the babies obviously age into adults. Given that the Night King is a First Man converted, he is centuries(?) old; if his aging continued (not stalled, as in the conventional use of immortality), he'd be a freakin' skeleton by now! Since he's not, there's an 'age freeze' for him, but apparently the transformed Crastor babies continue maturation.

[cramx3]

And even book readers are basically just guessing here. At this point, we don't really know much than anyone else. The White Walkers/Others show up even more rarely in the books and we know next to nothing about them. It has never even been mentioned in the books yet that they have a leader.

So how to we know what the book version of the night king was a former lord commander of the night's watch as opposed to the show where he was a presumably normal first man?

Old Nan told stories to Bran about the Night's King in book 1, it's ridiculously short and is only a story that no one knows to be accurate.  There are some more hints in the World of Ice and Fire book, but not a whole lot.  One of the stories was that the night's King was the 13th Lord Commander, I'm not sure how that can be true in the show version if the Night's King is as old as he seems. 

[BlackInk]

So how to we know what the book version of the night king was a former lord commander of the night's watch as opposed to the show where he was a presumably normal first man?

Old Nan told stories to Bran about the Night's King in book 1, it's ridiculously short and is only a story that no one knows to be accurate.  There are some more hints in the World of Ice and Fire book, but not a whole lot.  One of the stories was that the night's King was the 13th Lord Commander, I'm not sure how that can be true in the show version if the Night's King is as old as he seems. 

Yeah that's why I'm thinking they're just using the name "Night King" for a different character in the show. The two aren't the same at all. In the legend, the book Night's King, while still a human, sees a White Walker beyond the wall, chases her and makes her his queen. He then is said to make sacrifices to the White Walkers. None of which makes sense if he's supposed to be the first one. So I think they're different people.

Given that the Night King is a First Man converted, he is centuries(?) old

More like millennia. The White Walkers first appeared about 8'000 years ago.

[Prog Snob]

It's hard to say what's what. We're basing everything we know about The Others on the books that have already been written AND the new season for which the book is still being written. There might be truths in the book version that we have yet to uncover which could change everything we know about the Night's King and The Others. Since the apparent creation of The Others was at the hands of the Children in the show, it could be something we find out about in the next book. It remains to be seen.

We might just have to learn to separate the two histories, book and television, and not try and get hung up on mixing them together with certain things.

[Prog Snob]

Hmmm.... Benjen Stark?

[cramx3]

Hmmm.... Benjen Stark?

Confirmed

Also confirmed as Coldhands on the inside the episode   

What an awesome episode!  This season may be the best so far.  More about the dragonglass to the heart, Tommen unintentionally plays the game of thrones under influence of the High Sparrow, Jamie's going to the Riverland and really loves Cersei, the Freys return and also are going to Riverland, Dany is going to lead the dothraki army to westeros on the wooden horses, Samwell takes his fathers Valyrian steele sword  , and Arya just betrayed the Faceless Men and got Needle back. 

[axeman90210]

Damn, I mean we knew it from stories, but Samwell's dad has no chill.

[orcus116]

I may be in the minority but they seem to reintroduce characters we haven't seen in years (with obvious "guess who's back!" moments) meanwhile there are so many things going on who the fuck would even remember their place in the story? This may be exclusive to non-book readers but if hef hadn't told me who Benjen was or what a Blackfish is a few storylines in this episode would've been way more lost on me. Who was that guy Walder Frey "released" at the end and why should I care? What is the big deal about Riverrun and where the hell is it? Has Walder Frey even gotten up to take a shit from his chair since the Red Wedding?

[Progmetty]

orcus116 at this point I don't think they need to cater to casual viewers anymore and I honestly like it that way, you're either a die hard fan who knows every character that's been on -at least- the show so far or you're gonna have to make google your best buddy. The reason I say I like it is that I would have hated for them to waste time on the show reminding casual viewers of things that happened to these characters in previous seasons.

[cramx3]

I think that they bring back characters and storylines from previous seasons is what makes the show incredible.  Most of what was referenced by Orcus was a result of the Red Wedding, if you forgot, you should rewatch season 3.  We got hints about the Brotherhood without Banners too, also from season 3.  If you don't pay attention to the close details (or rewatch to catch them, which I often do) then you miss out on how awesome this show truly is.

[MetalJunkie]

I'm not going to read anything in this thread that doesn't quote me, but I've just started watching. I just finished Golden Crown and I am absolutely hooked. I wish I had started earlier.

[Progmetty]

I'm not going to read anything in this thread that doesn't quote me, but I've just started watching. I just finished Golden Crown and I am absolutely hooked. I wish I had started earlier.

I didn't know you could filter surf the forums to only see posts that quote you, how do you do that?

[Cyclopssss]

Awesome episode, not as epic as some of the earlier ones. That must have took some balls what Samwell did. The final shot of Dany was epic, though.

[faizoff]

Loved the visions of the Mad king, I'll have to rewatch those parts to see what else was shown in them.
Someone made a compilation of the shots.


So much happened this episode that I'm excited for. Arya's path, Tarly's family, Bran's ongoing amazing visions, King Tommen's switch of allegiance, seeing Drogon,  first episode this season we haven't seen scenes from the Wall. Man I'm so pumped for the next four episodes. Ive always wondered about Edmure and his treatment and I think it was somewhat mentioned he was put away somewhere and now there's a clearer idea. It was really chilling to see the red wedding hall again. I kept having a sense of dread during that part.
Was Ian McShane the mad king? I really couldn't tell even with those screen shots.

[Prog Snob]

I may be in the minority but they seem to reintroduce characters we haven't seen in years (with obvious "guess who's back!" moments) meanwhile there are so many things going on who the fuck would even remember their place in the story? This may be exclusive to non-book readers but if hef hadn't told me who Benjen was or what a Blackfish is a few storylines in this episode would've been way more lost on me. Who was that guy Walder Frey "released" at the end and why should I care? What is the big deal about Riverrun and where the hell is it? Has Walder Frey even gotten up to take a shit from his chair since the Red Wedding?

It IS, indeed, a lot to remember. Maybe it has helped that I read the books, but then again, there is much more detail in the books and I forget to separate the book history and show history.

Who did Walder Frey release? That was Edmure, Catelyn's and Lysa's younger brother. He was captured at the Red Wedding, which was only three seasons ago.

What is the big deal about Riverrun? It's where the Tullys are from (Catelyn, Lysa, etc). The Blackfish (Catelyn's uncle) has regained it which is a major deal in the story and happens in the books, but much earlier. Jaime heading there to stop the Blackfish happens in the books as well. I'm glad to see they didn't abandon that plot line because of something else that is supposed to happen around that time which I'm hoping they include.

Since they aren't abandoning the plot with Jaime in Riverrun, does anybody think they'll introduce Lady Stoneheart at the end of the season?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I may be in the minority but they seem to reintroduce characters we haven't seen in years (with obvious "guess who's back!" moments) meanwhile there are so many things going on who the fuck would even remember their place in the story? This may be exclusive to non-book readers but if hef hadn't told me who Benjen was or what a Blackfish is a few storylines in this episode would've been way more lost on me. Who was that guy Walder Frey "released" at the end and why should I care? What is the big deal about Riverrun and where the hell is it? Has Walder Frey even gotten up to take a shit from his chair since the Red Wedding?

I'm a non-book reader, and I've had no problem remembering who these characters are/were. I've been waiting to see Benjen since the third episode of the series. And they guy that Frey released was the guy who actually got married at the Red Wedding, and is kin to the guy that just bounced those clown hat wearing bozos out of Riverrun.

[orcus116]

I guess I just went through season 3 too fast. I appreciate the refreshers, though.

[Prog Snob]

Apparently, Rob Aramayo, who is playing young Ned Stark, is going to be in episode ten. This means, as I assumed, we're going to find out about Jon's heritage in the season finale.

[Phoenix87x]

Cool episode. Don't really care for the sam subplot, but everything else is solid.

cersei royally fucked up initially making contact with the high sparrow and thinking he would serve her needs.

[orcus116]

When Cersei is referring to trial by combat, who would the Mountain be fighting? Against someone from the Sparrows? It seems like everything has been sorted out and there really isn't an impending trial unless she's talking about Loras.

[MetalJunkie]

I'm not going to read anything in this thread that doesn't quote me, but I've just started watching. I just finished Golden Crown and I am absolutely hooked. I wish I had started earlier.

I didn't know you could filter surf the forums to only see posts that quote you, how do you do that?

You can't, as far as I know. I just skim and skip past everything that doesn't quote me.

[Prog Snob]

When Cersei is referring to trial by combat, who would the Mountain be fighting? Against someone from the Sparrows? It seems like everything has been sorted out and there really isn't an impending trial unless she's talking about Loras.

There's a theory, based on something that happened in the books, about who he would fight. Since nothing has been mentioned in the way of this character, I'm not sure if it's going to come to fruition. I suppose once we get to the Riverlands plots, we might hear from this certain someone.

[Prog Snob]

Did we ever figure out who Ian McShane was going to be playing? Is he the one who nursed back to life The Hound?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

When Cersei is referring to trial by combat, who would the Mountain be fighting? Against someone from the Sparrows? It seems like everything has been sorted out and there really isn't an impending trial unless she's talking about Loras.

She's out on bail. Trial still to come.