Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[bl5150]

Pffft, by DTF standards that's nothing. Just another average day.

That's an.....interesting....way of spending time.

Next on your shopping list should be the debate on whether "The Astonishing" is grammatically correct. Make some time in your day for that tomorrow. 

[Progmetty]

Haha kids these days, that was water cooler talk compared to how things usually go down here. I've grown to tire quicker and try to fade things out but there are still intense people around here. Wait til a Moore VS. Rudess topic comes up

[King Postwhore]

Pffft, by DTF standards that's nothing. Just another average day.

That's an.....interesting....way of spending time.

Next on your shopping list should be the debate on whether "The Astonishing" is grammatically correct. Make some time in your day for that tomorrow. 

Can't help you there Brent.

[Kotowboy]

Wow.  I can't believe there's like 30 posts going back and forth arguing about whether SDOIT is a song or not.

It's not.








it's an album

[Dublagent66]

Pffft, by DTF standards that's nothing. Just another average day.

That's an.....interesting....way of spending time.

Next on your shopping list should be the debate on whether "The Astonishing" is grammatically correct. Make some time in your day for that tomorrow. 

Grammatically correct or not, it's still a shitty title.

Wow.  I can't believe there's like 30 posts going back and forth arguing about whether SDOIT is a song or not.

It's not.








it's an album

Actually, it's both.  Album title = Title song/tracks

[Crow]

controversial opinion: through my words is not one song

[hefdaddy42]

controversial opinion: through my words is not one song

How many songs is it?

[Crow]

about 13.2% of one song 

[Calvin6s]

Other DT songs also have gaps. IT has a whopping break of random wind chime noises in the middle that break any semblance of flow. Is that not considered one song?

If only.

[IDontNotDoThings]

controversial opinion: through my words is not one song

Well even if you consider it separate from FT, TMW is still only one part of a song because the piano part continues into FT. Frankly, if they weren't going to separate it that way, I question why they separated the track at all.

[BlobVanDam]

The separation point is weird on the album. I recall it being more "correct" on LSFNY, and that's where I think of the split truly being. I think MP may have commented on that somewhere? Or maybe I'm remembering entirely wrong.

Being a concept album, the lines are a bit blurrier. I do consider it a song, it's just not a particularly useful song on its own, and one that is definitely dependent on FT, similar to Overture 1928 / SDV, or The Mirror / Lie, but to a much greater degree than either of those because there's no way it stands on its own unlike the rest.

I still don't think it was a bad idea to separate it as they did, because it acts as a bridging track, like a breather. Whether it's a song, or part of an act, or whatever they think of it as, isn't as relevant to me in the context of a concept album.



It's funny how different my opinion is here to the earlier discussion.

[IDontNotDoThings]

The separation point is weird on the album. I recall it being more "correct" on LSFNY, and that's where I think of the split truly being. I think MP may have commented on that somewhere? Or maybe I'm remembering entirely wrong.

To my knowledge (i.e. completely guessing), I think they split it like that because it's where JM took over lyric-writing. Not sure about that though. Either way, it still should've been separated better for neater organisation (meaning noun for organising, not a company)

[noxon]

The current split happened rather late in the process actually. Listen to the David Bottrill mixes. There, Fatal Tragedy starts just as the guitars start. Through My Words is much more of a seperate piece in that mix. Fatal Tragedy also have the extended vocal intro which continues the melody from the piano part.

[Progmetty]

I've been listening to these mixes for a while before I saw them live on the ADToE tour and I was singing along at the concert and after "I hear the cries, what does this mean..."  I found myself yelling alone "I sense the neeeeeed", needless to say it was awkward

[MHStrawn]

I'm going to have to go back and listen to those original mixes.  I remember only listening to them a couple times and thinking "wow...they made a VERY good decision to go back and re-edit this thing".  It was amazing to me how much inferior the total piece was compared to what was eventually released. 

[Progmetty]

Really? We're talking about the official bootleg release of the SFAM demos right? Cause I thought they were decent renditions and the little differences from the final release were all interesting and enjoyable, not better than the final release but really not bad.

[MHStrawn]

Yes, talking about the official bootleg.  I thought the mixing grossly undermined the content and the final versions were far superior.  BUt like I said, I only listened a couple times; it could be my memory overstates actual impact.

[MirrorMask]

Really? We're talking about the official bootleg release of the SFAM demos right? Cause I thought they were decent renditions and the little differences from the final release were all interesting and enjoyable, not better than the final release but really not bad.

Same opinion here. Final product better? of course. Demo version an atrocity I would never listen to? no way. Actually once in a while for the novelty of it I could go for the demo version rather than the actually released record.

[Stadler]

As a general proposition, and I am including the FII "director's cut" here too, I don't get this dismissal of the Ytsejam versions of these songs.  Of course I can tell the difference between the two, but to say one is "far superior" or the other "unlistenable" (as many have said of both records) is baffling to me.  I get that one might prefer one over the other (I don't really listen to the official FII anymore, vastly preferring the director's cut) but to bag on the other one doesn't really compute. 

[Pebsie]

controversial opinion: through my words is not one song

How many songs is it?

 

[Progmetty]

DT ripped me off :/

[Setlist Scotty]

As a general proposition, and I am including the FII "director's cut" here too, I don't get this dismissal of the Ytsejam versions of these songs.  Of course I can tell the difference between the two, but to say one is "far superior" or the other "unlistenable" (as many have said of both records) is baffling to me.  I get that one might prefer one over the other (I don't really listen to the official FII anymore, vastly preferring the director's cut) but to bag on the other one doesn't really compute.

Especially given the fact that the alternate version of SFaM, as found on CD2 of the Making of SFaM is NOT a bunch of demos, but the ORIGINAL MIX of the final studio recordings. So if anyone complains about the sound quality of it (as opposed to the FII demos), they need to get their ears checked since the sound quality is as good as the final album, perhaps even better. However, the energy was a bit lacking in the Botrill mixes, which is why JP wanted to do the remix.

[425]

As a general proposition, and I am including the FII "director's cut" here too, I don't get this dismissal of the Ytsejam versions of these songs.  Of course I can tell the difference between the two, but to say one is "far superior" or the other "unlistenable" (as many have said of both records) is baffling to me.  I get that one might prefer one over the other (I don't really listen to the official FII anymore, vastly preferring the director's cut) but to bag on the other one doesn't really compute.

The FII Demos are nigh unlistenable to me due to terrible sound quality.

[BlobVanDam]

The FII Demos are nigh unlistenable to me due to terrible sound quality.

Sound quality alone excludes them from serious listening for me. Musically, they're mostly not too different with the few obvious exceptions (and omissions), but luckily I prefer everything about the final album anyway, including the songs they ditched.

For SFAM, I agree there shouldn't be any major complaints. The sound quality isn't quite as good as the album, being unmastered and all, but given that the final album isn't one of DT's best sounding anyway, there's not much in it. The mix differences are mostly minor too. Overall I prefer the final album mix, but the original mix is perfectly listenable, and an interesting peek into the process.

[TheCountOfNYC]

The FII Demos are nigh unlistenable to me due to terrible sound quality.

Sound quality alone excludes them from serious listening for me. Musically, they're mostly not too different with the few obvious exceptions (and omissions), but luckily I prefer everything about the final album anyway, including the songs they ditched.

For SFAM, I agree there shouldn't be any major complaints. The sound quality isn't quite as good as the album, being unmastered and all, but given that the final album isn't one of DT's best sounding anyway, there's not much in it. The mix differences are mostly minor too. Overall I prefer the final album mix, but the original mix is perfectly listenable, and an interesting peek into the process.

I may be in the minority here but I absolutely love the mix on SFaM. Every instrument cuts through perfectly without any one instrument overpowering another. You can really feel the magic through the mix and it works well with the music.

[BlobVanDam]

I really like the mix on SFAM too, it just lacks some polish. Even that's not really a bad thing, it's just not what I consider one of DT's best sounding albums, but it's not one of their weakest either. I'd still place it well ahead of the last 4 albums sonically.

[pcs90]

It's just not what I consider one of DT's best sounding albums, but it's not one of their weakest either.

What would you consider their best sounding album?

[BlobVanDam]

It's just not what I consider one of DT's best sounding albums, but it's not one of their weakest either.

What would you consider their best sounding album?

I personally think FII is their best sounding, with SDOIT close behind. IaW and Awake also sound great due to the era. I'd put SFAM middle of the pack, ahead of WDADU, and at least the last 4.

[hefdaddy42]

It's just not what I consider one of DT's best sounding albums, but it's not one of their weakest either.

What would you consider their best sounding album?

I personally think FII is their best sounding, with SDOIT close behind. IaW and Awake also sound great due to the era. I'd put SFAM middle of the pack, ahead of WDADU, and at least the last 4.

I agree with this assessment wholeheartedly.

[pcs90]

I personally think FII is their best sounding, with SDOIT close behind. IaW and Awake also sound great due to the era. I'd put SFAM middle of the pack, ahead of WDADU, and at least the last 4.

That sounds about right! Though I do like the SFAM mix more than IaW's.

[BlobVanDam]

I personally think FII is their best sounding, with SDOIT close behind. IaW and Awake also sound great due to the era. I'd put SFAM middle of the pack, ahead of WDADU, and at least the last 4.

That sounds about right! Though I do like the SFAM mix more than IaW's.

IaW is very much a product of its time, so it's very understandable it's not to everyone's taste. I love that late '80s / early '90s sound, so it's right up my alley. Each to their own.

[Stadler]

As a general proposition, and I am including the FII "director's cut" here too, I don't get this dismissal of the Ytsejam versions of these songs.  Of course I can tell the difference between the two, but to say one is "far superior" or the other "unlistenable" (as many have said of both records) is baffling to me.  I get that one might prefer one over the other (I don't really listen to the official FII anymore, vastly preferring the director's cut) but to bag on the other one doesn't really compute.

The FII Demos are nigh unlistenable to me due to terrible sound quality.

I mean this constructively and not personally, but I find that to be rather over-dramatic.   Perhaps I'm more tolerant of "sound" than others, but "nigh unlistenable" and "terrible" sounds rather like overstatement.

I have a fair amount of driving to do today, maybe I'll bring those two along and revisit them both.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know know about "unlistenable" but they are definitely of lower quality than the studio release.

[BlobVanDam]

I think the official bootleg sounds quite nasty, and it's quite a huge jump from DT's best sounding studio album, to demo quality that is on par with their worst sounding album.
I have a different copy of some of the demo songs from some other unknown source, and they sounded quite good. I don't know what happened there.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Afterlife is a Top 10 DT song.