Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 994799 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6405 on: July 05, 2015, 09:43:21 PM »
I'm not hearing a problem. I'd guess it's a combination of slight low pass filtering and cheap speakers.
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Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6406 on: July 05, 2015, 09:46:35 PM »
Edit: Idk what happened lol, pretend nothing happened, nothing at all..
Anywhoo, yeah, sometimes when I use one of these cheap headphones they give you at buses, you hear things a lot differently, specially the S and drums for the most part.
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Offline abydos

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6407 on: July 05, 2015, 09:51:10 PM »
It's not that.

Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6408 on: July 05, 2015, 09:53:48 PM »
It's not that.

I've never denied that Labrie does spell TH at some parts, as well as some really frenchized E's, I'm just agreeing with Blob that with a poor quality sound you do hear stuff a lot differently.
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Offline NotePad

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6409 on: July 06, 2015, 11:00:53 AM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.

Offline zecawolf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6410 on: July 06, 2015, 11:05:51 AM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.

IMO, the credit that DT very well deserves, is that they are THE BEST band on their style, since they appeared until now. I can´t think of another prog band (metal OR traditional) that can say that.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6411 on: July 06, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.

Personal opinions on the band aside, Dream Theater were very much influential in the world of progressive metal.

Arguing that they weren't pioneers in progressive rock, on the other hand, is like arguing that Taylor Swift didn't invent death metal; you're arguing against a point that no one has made.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6412 on: July 06, 2015, 12:20:07 PM »
Have you actually listened to Taylor Swift?
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6413 on: July 06, 2015, 12:21:02 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.

DT should get credit more on the progressive metal side.  Rush and Yes more on the progressive rock side.  As far as heavier guitars go, Awake has heavier riffs than SFAM.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6414 on: July 06, 2015, 12:46:55 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.
OK.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6415 on: July 06, 2015, 01:18:57 PM »
DT took a completely new, much more technical, angle to prog that none of the previous prog bands had ever attempted (or even were capable of). Previous prog was much more driven by ideas, concepts and imagery, with a precise execution not being too necessary. DT really took the level of musicianship to a new level and ran with it.

At the same time, said focus on musicianship probably singlehandedly created all those terrible prog bands that just noodle with no rhyme or reason.
So, err, thanks DT for creating this new genre, and thanks for ruining it :lol
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6416 on: July 06, 2015, 01:21:46 PM »
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a modern progressive metal band that hasn't been influenced by Dream Theater in some way.
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Offline zecawolf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6417 on: July 06, 2015, 01:40:12 PM »
DT took a completely new, much more technical, angle to prog that none of the previous prog bands had ever attempted (or even were capable of). Previous prog was much more driven by ideas, concepts and imagery, with a precise execution not being too necessary. DT really took the level of musicianship to a new level and ran with it.

At the same time, said focus on musicianship probably singlehandedly created all those terrible prog bands that just noodle with no rhyme or reason.
So, err, thanks DT for creating this new genre, and thanks for ruining it :lol

you  can't blame DT for that!

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6418 on: July 06, 2015, 01:44:15 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.
OK.
*listens to The Mirror*

yeah wow DT weren't heavy at all until SFAM

Offline CDrice

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6419 on: July 06, 2015, 01:55:29 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.
OK.
*listens to The Mirror*

yeah wow DT weren't heavy at all until SFAM

Yeah, I think the more modern production might play a role into thinking the albums got heavier with Scenes. Because when you just look at the music, Scenes is not that heavier on the heaviness than their previous albums.

And looking at all the modern prog bands that cite DT has an influence, even if you don't think they've brought anything new, I think they deserve the credit they receive.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 02:09:28 PM by CDrice »

Offline cramx3

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6420 on: July 06, 2015, 02:04:14 PM »
Agreed about the production and not sounding heavy.  Images and Words on the album does not sound terribly heavy, but go watch some of those songs live or even the remixed ones for the best of album, those sound heavier.  The music was definitely always heavy.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6421 on: July 06, 2015, 02:27:09 PM »
Agreed about the production and not sounding heavy.  Images and Words on the album does not sound terribly heavy, but go watch some of those songs live or even the remixed ones for the best of album, those sound heavier.  The music was definitely always heavy.
Yup, they were always heavy.

When people ask me to describe DT, I always refer to them as the heavy metal version of Yes.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline IdoSC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6422 on: July 06, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
As others said, they don't really get credit for pioneering Progressive Rock, but rather for pioneering Progressive Metal - blending the 2 genres and complementing it in different ways. Personal opinion ahoy: WDADU sounds very much like what you just described, "Yes/Ruch kind of Prog Rock with heavy guitars", but even that one has a few moments (or whole songs, like Afterlife) that wouldn't normally come from a pure Prog Rock band, and they definitely added a new layer of technical showmanship to the genre.

Images and Words, again, to me, is the definition of what Dream Theater gets credit for. This is in many ways a late 80s Glam Metal album, but it blends perfectly with instrumental breaks, time signature changes and irregularity, and while it has the distinct sound that makes me love Scorpions or Iron Maiden for example, it also never stops surprising the listener (well, on the first 30 listens or so, then it wears off).

Following albums have done the same thing, always slightly changing their influences from both Metal and Prog Rock and blending them in beautiful ways. The Mirror sounds like something that would come from early Metallica or some heavier band than that, yet they play on that riff and tear it apart and tackle it in different ways like a Prog Rock normally does with much more mellow music. The same happens in certain sections of 6:00, Caught in a Web, etc. Voices was one of the earliest examples (along with Take the Time and Metropolis I guess) where besides blending two genres into a single piece and playing with individual riffs, they also mixed completely different styles in 2 or more sections of the same song and challenged themselves to transition between them as well as they could (which they could beautifully, big time).

I am no musician so my opinion might be worthless, but to me DT was the first to play around with 2 rather distant genres and see how they could bring them together in harmony. For the first half a dozen albums they basically took different sub-genres of each big inspiration and played "Will it blend?" with themselves, creating beautiful ideas and songs. This kickstarted both the kind of distinct sound of them that so many bands try to directly imitate, but also the whole principle of bringing these two worlds in harmony - so that other bands could take on different subgenres, the way Muse takes the experimental nature of Prog and Metal and creates an even bigger beautiful mess, or how Opeth brought that style together with death metal and brought them to complement each other in ways that people other than myself could possibly appreciate and like.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6423 on: July 06, 2015, 02:37:22 PM »
Agreed about the production and not sounding heavy.  Images and Words on the album does not sound terribly heavy, but go watch some of those songs live or even the remixed ones for the best of album, those sound heavier.  The music was definitely always heavy.

It's also worth pointing out that what is now perceived as heavy is very different from what was perceived as heavy when Awake came out. Awake *was* their heavy album.
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Offline JediKnight1969

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6424 on: July 06, 2015, 02:46:50 PM »
I smell a troll in this thread...

« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 02:53:41 PM by JediKnight1969 »
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6425 on: July 06, 2015, 03:24:02 PM »
awake still sounds pretty heavy at times to me lol
parts of CiaW, Erotomania,Voices, Scarred, and most of The Mirror and Lie especially
The Mirror is still their heaviest song imo and I love it

Offline Sycsa

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6426 on: July 06, 2015, 05:35:56 PM »

When people ask me to describe DT, I always refer to them as the heavy metal version of Yes.
That's JP's version as well, albeit I'd much sooner think of them as the metal version of Kansas. Kansas could rock out (just like DT and unlike Yes), but they also had a sophisticated, technical and often epic prog side, in similar proportions to DT. They also had their fair share of iconic - and sometimes a bit cheesy - ballads, again, very much like DT.


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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6427 on: July 06, 2015, 05:48:25 PM »
Hey, at least DT stays away from the hippie lyrics :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6428 on: July 06, 2015, 05:50:12 PM »
Dream Theater gets too much credit in the progressive rock/metal world. Bands like Rush and especially Yes were doing the same thing long before they came around. DT just added some heavier guitars, and I'd argue even that didnt really happen until they did Scenes From A Memory.

You can argue that all you want, but you would be dead wrong. 

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6429 on: July 06, 2015, 05:51:07 PM »
Hey, at least DT stays away from the hippie lyrics :lol

My cousin and brother call thse lyrics, "The Jon Anderson Fa La, La, La La's." :lol
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6430 on: July 07, 2015, 08:53:04 AM »

When people ask me to describe DT, I always refer to them as the heavy metal version of Yes.
That's JP's version as well, albeit I'd much sooner think of them as the metal version of Kansas. Kansas could rock out (just like DT and unlike Yes), but they also had a sophisticated, technical and often epic prog side, in similar proportions to DT. They also had their fair share of iconic - and sometimes a bit cheesy - ballads, again, very much like DT.
I agree with you 100%.
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Offline Cable

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6431 on: July 07, 2015, 08:10:39 PM »
^

I use MP's version, of putting Metallica, Pink Floyd and Rush into a blender. I find most know those three bands. But I agree with this one more than the Yes one. JM hasn't taken a Chris Squire type role except on the first album, so the orchestration that Yes is brilliant for is a little different in DT IMO.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6432 on: July 08, 2015, 05:13:15 AM »
I think Kansas is the right comparison. I love Yes and Dream Theater both but honestly I don't think DT really compare to Yes. Yes were a step ahead of there peers in so many ways. They did a lot that would still be considered really out there by today's standards, and there was a whole philosophy so to speak that went with their music.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6433 on: July 08, 2015, 07:03:28 AM »
I use MP's version, of putting Metallica, Pink Floyd and Rush into a blender.
I typically will use a similar description - swapping Yes in for PF. But then I usually mention there's also bits of the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Muse, Radiohead, Slayer, Iron Maiden and a whole host of other bands mixed in too.

As for the Kansas comparison, I'm not really familiar with their stuff outside their hits, and in this day and age, I don't think many other people are. Unlike Metallica, Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes and other bands, Kansas is nowhere near as well known.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6434 on: July 08, 2015, 08:21:14 AM »
As for the Kansas comparison, I'm not really familiar with their stuff outside their hits, and in this day and age, I don't think many other people are. Unlike Metallica, Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes and other bands, Kansas is nowhere near as well known.
Maybe not quite to those bands levels, but Kansas is pretty well known.  They have had 5 albums go platinum, and another four go gold, along with multiple songs on the singles charts.

Go listen to some Kansas.  But preferably one of the first 5 albums.

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Offline Sycsa

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6435 on: July 08, 2015, 09:56:18 AM »
As for the Kansas comparison, I'm not really familiar with their stuff outside their hits, and in this day and age, I don't think many other people are. Unlike Metallica, Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes and other bands, Kansas is nowhere near as well known.
Maybe not quite to those bands levels, but Kansas is pretty well known.  They have had 5 albums go platinum, and another four go gold, along with multiple songs on the singles charts.

Go listen to some Kansas.  But preferably one of the first 5 albums.
Indeed. Moreover, Kansas was the only American prog rock band in the '70s that really mattered. Rush is huge nowadays, but they never had hits comparable to Carry On...  and Dust in the Wind. Kansas is also extremely consistent (another aspect where they're very similar to DT), their entire '70s output is stellar, while most other prog rock bands turned to shit in the second half of the decade.


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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6436 on: July 08, 2015, 10:00:17 AM »
Leftoverture is one of my favorite albums of all time. 'nough said.  :D
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6437 on: July 08, 2015, 10:39:59 AM »
Rush is huge nowadays, but they never had hits comparable to Carry On...  and Dust in the Wind.

Tom Sawyer?  Spirit of Radio?  Closer to the Heart? 

I agree with the general point that Kansas was in fact well-known and influential.  But to say that Rush's singles weren't comparable is off.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6438 on: July 08, 2015, 10:54:20 AM »
Rush is huge nowadays, but they never had hits comparable to Carry On...  and Dust in the Wind.

Tom Sawyer?  Spirit of Radio?  Closer to the Heart? 

I agree with the general point that Kansas was in fact well-known and influential.  But to say that Rush's singles weren't comparable is off.
The word was "hits" bosky.  Those two songs by Kansas were huge, huge hit singles.

Rush has never had that.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #6439 on: July 08, 2015, 11:25:08 AM »
Rush's highest chart topping single was #21 with New World Man in 1982.
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