Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Anxiety35]

Man, what a mess!

[Phoenix87x]

Man, what a mess!

Yeah, I'll second that.

So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's

[ReaperKK]

I've been reading this thread for a long time as well as the great discography thread by Samsara and it seems to me that QR just made notoriously bad choices throughout their career, that was their biggest weakness.

It also comes off that they seemed pretty indifferent when success was at their door. I'm probably 100% wrong but this is just how it seemed to me.

[Lethean]

Add me to the list of those who don't want a reunion.  If Queensryche can get 250-750 people on a full headline tour, they can do more than just break even.  Not saying they're going to be rolling in dough, but there are bands where 250 is the highest attendance they get, and they come from overseas in some cases, and they break even.  QR would/could get a buy on from an opening band, are based in the US, and would have bigger crowds than a lot of bands can hope for.

I am not in the music industry, but I have quite a few friends who are. You're mistaken. The guarantees per show promoters are offering are lower than ever -- even for bands more respected than QR. Trust me on that.

Your explanation about them still having to pay Tate helps to clear this up.  I know a couple guys in smaller bands who have said they make money from touring, so it didn't make sense that QR couldn't with larger audiences.  But it makes sense that there are other issues at play.

Thanks for the info about Chris and Tribe.  I never realized that he had intended to rejoin the band - I always thought he was just involved in writing a few songs and that was going to be it.  And that probably is how they eventually tried to spin it.

[Cool Chris]

This thread was started in 2009 by AndyDT.

[Grappler]

Man, what a mess!

Yeah, I'll second that.

So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's

I believe it's with someone other than his ex wife.  I can completely understand wanting time off to be with your baby.  I'm sure Scott missed out on time with his older kids and has no desire to be away for too long now.  But it really pisses me off to hear this parental leave crap thrown around for over a year.  There are so many dads, including myself, that are up all night with our babies and then drag ourselves to work on a few hours sleep each night.  He could easily manage being away for 24-48 hours when the band only plays a few shows here and there.  At most, they play 3 days in a row, but it's usually one or two shows per week, or even one or two shows PER MONTH.  I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave."   I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work. 

I really think Samsara is right on the money in that he's trying to keep his income minimal for divorce proceedings/alimony purposes.  He can't come out and say it, so it's just "parental leave."  But that then becomes insulting to dads who bust their ass 24 hours a day between family and work, and this guy can't be bothered to show up for his fans on the weekends.

[Setzer]

I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave."   I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.

How so? The length of your paid leave is no fault of Scott's...

It's interesting if Todd did indeed record the drums himself. Or if possible, Scott recorded them from his home studio (if he has one)?

[Stadler]

Man, what a mess!

Yeah, I'll second that.

So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's

I believe it's with someone other than his ex wife.  I can completely understand wanting time off to be with your baby.  I'm sure Scott missed out on time with his older kids and has no desire to be away for too long now.  But it really pisses me off to hear this parental leave crap thrown around for over a year.  There are so many dads, including myself, that are up all night with our babies and then drag ourselves to work on a few hours sleep each night.  He could easily manage being away for 24-48 hours when the band only plays a few shows here and there.  At most, they play 3 days in a row, but it's usually one or two shows per week, or even one or two shows PER MONTH.  I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave."   I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work. 

I really think Samsara is right on the money in that he's trying to keep his income minimal for divorce proceedings/alimony purposes.  He can't come out and say it, so it's just "parental leave."  But that then becomes insulting to dads who bust their ass 24 hours a day between family and work, and this guy can't be bothered to show up for his fans on the weekends.

You got two weeks off?  .

[Grappler]

I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave."   I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.

How so? The length of your paid leave is no fault of Scott's...

It's interesting if Todd did indeed record the drums himself. Or if possible, Scott recorded them from his home studio (if he has one)?

It's great that he has a career that allows him to do that.  I just find it insulting, knowing what I do for my kids and my job, putting in hours upon hours of extra work on top of sleepless nights to juggle both, while this guy can't even show up two nights a month to work.

If I were in his shoes, I'd find it easy to make things work, which is why I don't buy the parental leave excuse anymore.

And to clarify, I used two weeks vacation time.

[jammindude]

To be fair....you do not know his entire situation.   Seriously.   They guy could have a lot of irons in the fire, and if he feels like he can't do everything....along with being a father....on top of being the drummer of QR full time, then that's his business.   Unless any of us know him personally, or are following around with a camera 24/7, then we don't know what his 24 hour day is like.

[Grappler]

That is a fair assessment, but I have always doubted the paternity leave thing, just based on how I feel.  If he wanted to, he could make things work.  I certainly do in my life.  To me, he obviously doesnt want to make things work.  Samsara has stated that he has long wanted to be off od the road.  This makes for a nice excuse to get off the road.  Just stop jerking the fans around. 

While he has been on leave, the band has been recording a record.  He has been rumored to be producing another band, possibly out of town.  Things just don't add up for me.  I know what I sacrifice to balance my career and family, and he certainly has sacrificed a lot with his older kids.  So I get wanting to be home now.  But come out and say it, rather than hiding behind paternity leave.  "I'm done touring, but I will remain in the band and will handle such and such." 

It has worked out well for Nightwish by being honest and up front about Jukka.  He still works for the band internally.  Scott could do the same.  Instead he hides behind his kid.

[Lethean]

There may well be something else going on here that we don't know about.  I can easily see that.  But what if it is that simple?  He doesn't want to tour or record now because he wants to be with his kid.  But maybe he does want to tour in the future.  Or maybe he isn't sure yet.  If that's true, I don't see it as an insult to people who have to make more sacrifices.  He's just lucky to be in a better position as far as that goes.

[MirrorMask]

Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.

I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.

Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?

[IDontNotDoThings]

Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.

I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.

Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?

I heard there's some references in If I Could Change It All

[Samsara]

Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?

The bolded part. People began speculating that the long wait after Empire was because they explored doing a sequel to Mindcrime. That is incorrect. The reference to "Mother Mary" in "Damaged" was, according to the guys, when someone asked them who was next to me in 1997, just a biblical reference as some color to the whole "theme" in Promised Land of growing up and figuring out who you are.

But people have always thought PL was some sort of sequel to Mindcrime. It's all BS. They never did plan a sequel (all that garbage Tate spouted in 2005/2006 about a sequel always being planned was a complete marketing ploy). If you read back articles from 1988-2005, every one of them said that they never considered, nor would they, do a sequel. Mindcrime II was created because they needed money to cover a lawsuit they faced from Japanese promoters who sued them after the band ditched playing a Japanese tour in fall 2001 after the 9/11 attacks. Nothing less. Nothing more. In fact, I forget if I ever mentioned this, but Slater told me that Tate ran out of lyrical ideas, and it was Susan Tate that wrote the lyrics to that God awful "All the Promises." 

If that's true, my Lord. 

Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.

[KevShmev]

Sequels are pretty much never better than the originals.

Promised Land is better than Mindcrime.

Therefore, Promised Land cannot be a sequel.

[MirrorMask]

Ok, I figured there might not be that much sustance to the "Sister Mary clues" thing after all, thanks 

[sfam2112]

Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.

At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.

[Stadler]

Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.

I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.

Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?

There's a mystery about Sister Mary?

[TAC]

Turn me on deadman.

[MirrorMask]

Well, for years the mystery was "Who killed Sister Mary"....

[PowerSlave]

Well, for years the mystery was "Who killed Sister Mary"....

I think that they revealed that it was a suicide on the video monitors during building empires.

[Setzer]

Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.

At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.

I hear some stuff going something along the lines of: "Scream at night in cover!". And then the wonderful: "Drinks for all my friends"   

[Samsara]

Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.

At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.

I hear some stuff going something along the lines of: "Scream at night in cover!". And then the wonderful: "Drinks for all my friends"   

Yeah, that's the part I am talking about. I can hear the line just as you both hear it as well. Classic Queensryche. Stuff too low to really make it audible. Just like they did throughout their discography.

[Grappler]

I shelved the QR albums for a while over the last year, but the Mindcrime anniversary had me breaking out Mindcrime, RFO and Warning over the last few days and I found myself loving those discs like I did when I first got into the band.  I even listened to the self titled record with Todd the other night and sat there wondering why they never played more of that album live.  I haven't really listened to that one in a much longer time than the classics since the production truly hurts my ears, but the songs are definitely there. 

Nightwish fired Tarja, wrote a song about it (Bye Bye Beautiful) and then used it as the opening song for their next tour before retiring the song permanently.       QR should have done the same with Vindication. 

[Samsara]

Focus on Metal podcast - www.focusonmetal.net - will be publishing part 1 of a two-part podcast interview with Jason Slater later today (approx. 4 p.m. Pacific). In it, he'll discuss his various projects with Queensryche from 2005-2012, and opens up on what went down in the recording of Operation: Mindcrime II.

If you're a fan of the band, the podcasts will be worth listening to.

Oh, and if you like predictions (I know the troll audience I have loves it), my guess is, the reunion with Tate and Rockenfield will be still be happening, along with Mike Stone, and Eddie, and finally Michael. And instead of trotting out Mindcrime (which Tate is doing this year), they'll trot out a two-year 30th Anniversary of Empire tour, where they'll play the record from front to back, in sequence. They've never done that before, and it's probably the only thing that would stir interest in promoters. That reunion of the Mindcrime II-era of the band will be a blip, but doing Empire in its entirety could lead to them playing 850-1,000 seat places again. At least for a couple years.

Edit - and before the "they won't reunite because none of the guys will do it after Tate spit on them" reasons, and all the self-respect bullshit, and how fans will lose respect...forget it. If anyone has been following, the whole band (post-DeGarmo) is all about cash. Cold, hard cash. Nothing less, nothing more. And now that both sides have seen it isn't working financially without the other, if there is a reunion possibility out there that will give them more cash, they will take it. Period. 

Anyway, be on the lookout for that podcast interview later today. Folks not familiar with the whole Tateryche era of the band (2003-2012), may learn some things.

p.s. if a reunited Wilton-Jackson-Tate-Rockenfield-Stone did indeed trot out Empire and play it in its entirety on a tour, would you be interested? I admit, at first I was like "absolutely not." But now I find myself reconsidering, since while I have seen all those songs except for one (Hand on Heart is the only one I haven't seen live), I sorta think it would be cool to hear Empire front-to-back. And Stone, by the end, got his shrill tone under control.

[Anxiety35]

After all that legal mess that went into the breakup of Tate from the rest of the band, I can't see a reunion working. It could happen, but it won't work. Not for 2 years. The personalities will clash something fierce if they haven't personally worked things out.

Think of the headache and money it would take to establish legal stuff and everybody be in agreement in order for this to happen.

Also, why would Rockenfield want to play with Tate again, especially after being spit on by Tate during a concert? I am a big proponent of forgiveness and reconciliation. But if that hasn't happened, then it's all about the money. I wouldn't want to see a show knowing they're still mad as fire ants at each other but they're playing one of their classic albums anyway.

Sure, there are many bands that put their differences aside and play music. But it can seem very pretentious. I don't think too many people are interested in that. The nostalgia thing is cool, but the drama isn't.

[Samsara]

I explained it in an edit above. You may have been posting after I edited.

Suffice it to say, money is the only thing that drives them. All that legal shit, and the disrespect toward one another -- it means nothing if the pay check is there. The only guy in that band that doesn't need cash hasn't played with them live since Dec. 1997. And every time he tried to come back, he couldn't convince them to invest money to grow the band, so he didn't bother.

It's all about the money, man. If the Tates have reached out to promoters about what to expect from a reunion tour between Tate-Wilton-Jackson-Rockenfield-Stone, and playing Empire in-full, and the numbers are right, they'll do it in a heartbeat. Timing is of course, everything. But I feel like it is pretty likely at this point.

Sure, there are many bands that put their differences aside and play music. But it can seem very pretentious. I don't think too many people are interested in that. The nostalgia thing is cool, but the drama isn't.

I think you'll be surprised. At the end of the day, people want to just go rock out. They aren't going to care what happened six years ago. They want a reason to go see music. And playing Empire in its entirety, with the four guys that were in the band the longest and Stone, will give that to them.

I'm not saying it is "right." I'm just saying I think it will happen.

[Elite]

This thread was started in 2009 by AndyDT.

why did this make me laugh?

[Chris Hinton]

p.s. if a reunited Wilton-Jackson-Tate-Rockenfield-Stone did indeed trot out Empire and play it in its entirety on a tour, would you be interested? I admit, at first I was like "absolutely not." But now I find myself reconsidering, since while I have seen all those songs except for one (Hand on Heart is the only one I haven't seen live), I sorta think it would be cool to hear Empire front-to-back. And Stone, by the end, got his shrill tone under control.

I'm a QR fan from the beginning.  I wore out at least 3 copies of the EP cassette and have seen them live every change I had.  I think the only one I skipped was the stupid burlesque run of shows.  I've probably seen them live more than any other band, with both Tate and TLT.

Under normal "band drama breakup" situations, I would probably jump all over an Empire reunion tour.  But with the way this breakup came down, I have a 0.0% chance of being interested in seeing it.

[jammindude]

I’m with Chris on every line.

[Samsara]

I'm a QR fan from the beginning.  I wore out at least 3 copies of the EP cassette and have seen them live every change I had.  I think the only one I skipped was the stupid burlesque run of shows.  I've probably seen them live more than any other band, with both Tate and TLT.

Under normal "band drama breakup" situations, I would probably jump all over an Empire reunion tour.  But with the way this breakup came down, I have a 0.0% chance of being interested in seeing it.

I’m with Chris on every line.

I hear you both, and I respect that completely. I will say, however, that if my guess comes to pass, I think it'll be best to re-evaluate then. Because for me personally, I felt the same as you both. But after seeing Tate acoustic last year, and a couple of other things, I got some closure. And it has changed my outlook on whether I'd see Tate live again (now instead of an all-out NO, I have seen him, and my view now is, it will depend on the setlist and how he is singing).

So, if the reunion of the four longest-standing original members and Stone does happen, and they do trot out Empire, I'm much more open to it than I was a couple years ago. I have no interest in seeing Mindcrime, nor am I interested in a Greatest Hits set. But if its Empire in-full, and if Tate sounds pretty good, I may do it.

But again, all it is, is speculation on my part. What really will happen is anyone's guess. 

[Cool Chris]

Suffice it to say, money is the only thing that drives them.

I know artists are supposed to be all about their art, but as a working schlub myself trying to support my 2 young daughters, I can't fault a musician for doing something solely "for the money."

[Setzer]

You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?

[DarkChestOfWonders]

You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?

And you are assuming they wouldn't?  You obviously don't know the power of money over the rest of the band.  I think it's foolish to assume they wouldn't act in their own best interests over those of Todd and/or Parker.  That's incredibly naďve.