Election 2012

[rumborak]

I don't think I need to pare down my opinion about a politician. He *is* and old man, and he *is* rambling, and that *is* one of the main reasons why he nixed himself out of the election pretty much right way. (the other being that apparently the first time he actually thought about foreign policy was when he was asked by debate moderators)
EDIT: And if you actually compare some older videos of RP and compare those to current debates, it's brutally clear that he's no longer at the top of his game.

rumborak

[MondayMorningLunatic]

I'm sure he's under a lot of stress as well. Politicians are not in enviable position. Just look at how much W and Obama aged during their presidencies.

[rumborak]

I fail to see how that is making Paul's candidacy any more viable. You're telling me RP already can't handle the nomination stress. I daren't imagine what would happen with him during an actual crisis of the country.

rumborak

[Super Dude]

I'm sure he's under a lot of stress as well. Politicians are not in enviable position. Just look at how much W and Obama aged during their presidencies.

Yeah, he's not even in the presidency yet and he's already an incapable old man!

[jsem]

RP's days are over anyway. He's spent half his life in politics and it's impossible to be 100% clean - I mean, some backdoor deals happen in politics and he has to have made some to not be challenged by incumbents in his Texas district and the newsletters is a letdown even though he didn't write it.

Hopefully some new faces will pick up the flag in his place. It certainly won't be Rand though. He is an embarrassment to the movement that got him elected Senator. But everyone should've seen it coming. He was never like Ron, he's a statist. A "Tea Party" style libertarian that isn't anti-war at all either.

[Super Dude]

RP's days are over anyway. He's spent half his life in politics and it's impossible to be 100% clean - I mean, some backdoor deals happen in politics and he has to have made some to not be challenged by incumbents in his Texas district and the newsletters is a letdown even though he didn't write it.

Hopefully some new faces will pick up the flag in his place. It certainly won't be Rand though. He is an embarrassment to the movement that got him elected Senator. But everyone should've seen it coming. He was never like Ron, he's a statist. A "Tea Party" style libertarian that isn't anti-war at all either.

And yet when a Democrat does it, it's unequivocally wrong.

[kirksnosehair]

And Obama actually did end a war. It was the one in Iraq, in case you were wondering.

Yes but then he launched a full scale invasion and colonization of Libya.

 

[rumborak]

RP's days are over anyway. He's spent half his life in politics and it's impossible to be 100% clean - I mean, some backdoor deals happen in politics and he has to have made some to not be challenged by incumbents in his Texas district and the newsletters is a letdown even though he didn't write it.

The interesting thing is, who actually thought he would have a chance? Clearly he did; but did the people surrounding him really think "Oh yeah, the two previous runs, when you were younger, wittier etc. were just bad luck. This year we're gonna sway the masses".
And his legislative record is abysmal; you can call it unswaying idealism, but what use is a politician who managed to get 1 bill approved of the 620 he proposed through his career? Obama is already struggling to get anything done across the aisles; RP might as well not even show up for work, it would be just as useful.

rumborak

[jsem]

RP's days are over anyway. He's spent half his life in politics and it's impossible to be 100% clean - I mean, some backdoor deals happen in politics and he has to have made some to not be challenged by incumbents in his Texas district and the newsletters is a letdown even though he didn't write it.

Hopefully some new faces will pick up the flag in his place. It certainly won't be Rand though. He is an embarrassment to the movement that got him elected Senator. But everyone should've seen it coming. He was never like Ron, he's a statist. A "Tea Party" style libertarian that isn't anti-war at all either.

And yet when a Democrat does it, it's unequivocally wrong.

When did I ever say that Ron was ever right to do this? URGH.

Unbelievable.

The interesting thing is, who actually thought he would have a chance? Clearly he did; but did the people surrounding him really think "Oh yeah, the two previous runs, when you were younger, wittier etc. were just bad luck. This year we're gonna sway the masses".
And his legislative record is abysmal; you can call it unswaying idealism, but what use is a politician who managed to get 1 bill approved of the 620 he proposed through his career? Obama is already struggling to get anything done across the aisles; RP might as well not even show up for work, it would be just as useful.

rumborak

Had he won Iowa, it would've been different. Not enough to carry him nationwide but still. Ron was never the best messenger of libertarianism, that's his biggest flaw. About his legislative record, there's not much to say. Classical liberalism has no place in the west anymore.

[rumborak]

Had he won Iowa, it would've been different.

I highly doubt it. What might have looked to you (as an RP supporter) as an "almost made the threshold to success", to everyone else he was just yet another anti-Romney blip. Everybody had had his/her day in the sun during the primaries, and the fact that RP actually never even achieved the sizable blip that others achieved spoke volumes.

About his legislative record, there's not much to say. Classical liberalism has no place in the west anymore.

Why put up a flawed candidate then? Seems to me someone who has Libertarian leanings, but has a track record of getting things done, would have been a far smarter choice. All the general public saw was an old guy who's trying for the third time already, has gotten almost nothing achieved as a politician, and has inklings of senility.

rumborak

[kirksnosehair]

Had he won Iowa, it would've been different.

Yep, it would have taken Romney at least 4 more weeks to sew up the nomination.

[Super Dude]

RP's days are over anyway. He's spent half his life in politics and it's impossible to be 100% clean - I mean, some backdoor deals happen in politics and he has to have made some to not be challenged by incumbents in his Texas district and the newsletters is a letdown even though he didn't write it.

Hopefully some new faces will pick up the flag in his place. It certainly won't be Rand though. He is an embarrassment to the movement that got him elected Senator. But everyone should've seen it coming. He was never like Ron, he's a statist. A "Tea Party" style libertarian that isn't anti-war at all either.

And yet when a Democrat does it, it's unequivocally wrong.

When did I ever say that Ron was ever right to do this? URGH.

I never said you said he was right to do so, but you're certainly cutting him more slack than you might a politician from another ideology or party.

[jsem]

Because he's cleaner. Way cleaner. At least AFAIK.

[Breaking All Illusions]

I have no idea why people vote. Our votes don't matter. No one votes. I think that people in high levels of government choose the president. They are in it for themseleves and never for the people. People want to give Obama a break because it is hard to clean up the mess made by Bush, but people don't understand that all of this is planned that way. They want things a mess so we are easier to control. They steal all of our money, they steal all of our resources, they kill millions of us through senseless wars and poisons in many things we consume. Is this really a system by the people for the people or are they in it for their own self intrest? Politicans are power hunger, they always want power, the more we support them, the more power they have and the more they control us. I think all of us need to unite and figure out a way to get rid of this government and make sure it never comes back.

[Super Dude]

Because he's cleaner. Way cleaner. At least AFAIK.

Exactly, as far as you know. What I'm trying to say is if you accuse one politician mercilessly for his scandals and pardon another for his, that's not very consistent, and very likely could be labeled as favoritism (read: partisanship).

[rumborak]

Regarding RP I can't help but be reminded of the quote "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds".

rumborak

[antigoon]

Still with Ron Paul? Really?

[Adami]

Still with Ron Paul? Really?

Is that aimed at people still talking about him? Or his supporters?

It could go either way.

[rumborak]

Well, I do have to say I have a bit of an obsession with him. Or really rather, his supporters.

rumborak

[antigoon]

Both, I guess. I wasn't expecting there'd be any more discussion about the guy in this thread, which I suppose was silly of me

[Super Dude]

Exhibit A:

I have no idea why people vote. Our votes don't matter. No one votes. I think that people in high levels of government choose the president. They are in it for themseleves and never for the people. People want to give Obama a break because it is hard to clean up the mess made by Bush, but people don't understand that all of this is planned that way. They want things a mess so we are easier to control. They steal all of our money, they steal all of our resources, they kill millions of us through senseless wars and poisons in many things we consume. Is this really a system by the people for the people or are they in it for their own self intrest? Politicans are power hunger, they always want power, the more we support them, the more power they have and the more they control us. I think all of us need to unite and figure out a way to get rid of this government and make sure it never comes back.

He is, somehow, still relevant.

[Adami]

I have no idea why people vote. Our votes don't matter. No one votes. I think that people in high levels of government choose the president. They are in it for themseleves and never for the people. People want to give Obama a break because it is hard to clean up the mess made by Bush, but people don't understand that all of this is planned that way. They want things a mess so we are easier to control. They steal all of our money, they steal all of our resources, they kill millions of us through senseless wars and poisons in many things we consume. Is this really a system by the people for the people or are they in it for their own self intrest? Politicans are power hunger, they always want power, the more we support them, the more power they have and the more they control us. I think all of us need to unite and figure out a way to get rid of this government and make sure it never comes back.

Totally. God damn lizard people.

[Breaking All Illusions]

About Ron Paul. I like his message, but I don't trust him. You should be weary of all politicans. Every election someone says I am going to bring hope and change, I will do this and that to fix things for the better of the people, but what they promise never comes. No matter how good Ron Paul sounds he could be lying just like the rest of them.

[Breaking All Illusions]

With that being said, there is one guy you can trust. VERMIN SUPREME 2012!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d_FvgQ1csE

[Sigz]

Romney Stares Uncomprehendingly At $1 Bill

[kirksnosehair]

 

[jsem]

Whew. I was glad to see that it was Onion. I almost thought it was real.

[TL]

I have no idea why people vote. Our votes don't matter. No one votes. I think that people in high levels of government choose the president. They are in it for themseleves and never for the people. People want to give Obama a break because it is hard to clean up the mess made by Bush, but people don't understand that all of this is planned that way. They want things a mess so we are easier to control. They steal all of our money, they steal all of our resources, they kill millions of us through senseless wars and poisons in many things we consume. Is this really a system by the people for the people or are they in it for their own self intrest? Politicans are power hunger, they always want power, the more we support them, the more power they have and the more they control us. I think all of us need to unite and figure out a way to get rid of this government and make sure it never comes back.

[Sigz]

All politicians want is power, we have to break this cycle by getting rid of them and putting new people in power.

[rumborak]

The problem isn't the government, it's the public that elect it. For the most part the people who scream for revolution don't even notice the morons they want to put in place instead.

rumborak

[jsem]

People who cannot perform their own civic duty to stay informed shouldn't even vote imho.

[Super Dude]

For once, you and I agree completely.

[rumborak]

One of the major drawbacks of democracy for sure. It places no requirements on the voters essentially. Show up, make a tick mark,and that's it.

rumborak

[Implode]

And that's why we're a republic. But I guess you'd argue that still gives too much power to uniformed people?

[Scheavo]

That's why we were a republic. A wealthy white male republic, then a white male republic, then we sort of let some black people vote, and then we eventually let women vote, and we begrudgingly became a democracy. At least, in principle, according to this countries legal codes.

But really, a country will be run according to the capabilities of the people living in that country. If the people in a country are informed enough for a democracy, they'll probably end up with a democracy. Revolutions are made this way. If the people of a country become too ill-informed, as they are today, and not capable of having a democracy, than the country won't be a democracy. It'll be corrupted, and it could easily turn into a monarchy, or a oligarchy, or the plutocracy we have now. If the people of this country were to become informed enough, than it could elect the right people, and take control back of the government. The military would almost assuredly make sure this happens (so sort of a revolution, but without actually needing to fight a war).