Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Adami]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

The books haven't got this far yet. For his/the wall's storyline, the latest book ended the same way as season 5.

Hm... So the series is spoiling the books now 

From what I understand they're just separate things now. The books (whenever they continue) will go in a different direction than the show.

[cramx3]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

The books haven't got this far yet. For his/the wall's storyline, the latest book ended the same way as season 5.

Hm... So the series is spoiling the books now 

From what I understand they're just separate things now. The books (whenever they continue) will go in a different direction than the show.

Different directions to the same ending is my understanding, but I think there will be lots of similarities like how Jon comes back to life.  I am thinking in the books, Mel maybsacrifice Shireen for this purpose, but who knows.

[hefdaddy42]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

The books haven't got this far yet. For his/the wall's storyline, the latest book ended the same way as season 5.

Hm... So the series is spoiling the books now 

Yup, spoilers everywhere for the books!

I blame George R. R. Martin.

[faizoff]

I have a question if anyone can answer cause it's been a while since I've seen season 2. But at the end of the season, Theon is betrayed by his Greyjoy troops and handed over to Ramsay. Can anyone remember why this was done? I'm assuming those Greyjoy troops also abandoned their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy?

[Evermind]

Uh, Euron killing Balon in the books was pretty much confirmed, even though he did it by hiring a Faceless Man assassin in the books because he wasn't around when Balon died. I won't bother looking for quotes or anything, but it wasn't a book spoiler whatsoever as far as I'm concerned.

I agree Jon's resurrection was somewhat lame. Best part of the episode for me was Bran's flashback. That was really nice.

[gmillerdrake]

I agree Jon's resurrection was somewhat lame.

I still think (if the popular theory is true and he's half Targaryn) that it'd have been neat to have him not burn in a burial fire and resurrect as the fire burned. But, oh well...it is what it is. It's not that I think it was lame...it's just that it was expected. Everyone and their mother knew he was coming back so I think that took away from the scene a bit but all in all I was happy with how it went.

[RuRoRul]

I have a question if anyone can answer cause it's been a while since I've seen season 2. But at the end of the season, Theon is betrayed by his Greyjoy troops and handed over to Ramsay. Can anyone remember why this was done? I'm assuming those Greyjoy troops also abandoned their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy?

They didn't exactly abandon their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy. An offer was made that if they gave up Theon then they would let the rest of the Ironborn go (Robb Stark told Roose Bolton to do this, and Roose Bolton sent Ramsay to Winterfell). So the Ironborn were just betraying Theon to try to save their own skin and be allowed to go back to the Iron Islands. Ramsay confirmed later in the series though that he did not honour the deal and killed those Ironborn anyway.

[cramx3]

I have a question if anyone can answer cause it's been a while since I've seen season 2. But at the end of the season, Theon is betrayed by his Greyjoy troops and handed over to Ramsay. Can anyone remember why this was done? I'm assuming those Greyjoy troops also abandoned their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy?

They didn't exactly abandon their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy. An offer was made that if they gave up Theon then they would let the rest of the Ironborn go (Robb Stark told Roose Bolton to do this, and Roose Bolton sent Ramsay to Winterfell). So the Ironborn were just betraying Theon to try to save their own skin and be allowed to go back to the Iron Islands. Ramsay confirmed later in the series though that he did not honour the deal and killed those Ironborn anyway.

What RuRo said.

And Evermind, it's not a total spoiler but the books did not in any way that I know, confirm who killed Balon.  Euron arrives shortly after his death so it always seemed likely he was involved and the faceless man theory was just that, a theory, as far as I knew (and a way to explain how he died without Euron directly being there).  Feel free to prove me wrong though.

[Prog Snob]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

[cramx3]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

Agreed and given Ghost's reaction last night, it is possible he did warg into ghost in the show and could only warg back into his body once life was given to it.

[gmillerdrake]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

Agreed and given Ghost's reaction last night, it is possible he did warg into ghost in the show and could only warg back into his body once life was given to it.

but it'd seem like there would have been more emphasis on the fact that he was 'in' ghost. Other than Ghost howling after he died and trying to get out of his pen and then snarling to defend his body....there was no real "sign" that Jon had warged into Ghost. I'm doubting that he warged into him (on the show)...i think it was/is as simple as he was resurrected...just curious to see how being dead for a bit affects his demeanor, personality, actions??

[Prog Snob]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

Agreed and given Ghost's reaction last night, it is possible he did warg into ghost in the show and could only warg back into his body once life was given to it.

but it'd seem like there would have been more emphasis on the fact that he was 'in' ghost. Other than Ghost howling after he died and trying to get out of his pen and then snarling to defend his body....there was no real "sign" that Jon had warged into Ghost. I'm doubting that he warged into him (on the show)...i think it was/is as simple as he was resurrected...just curious to see how being dead for a bit affects his demeanor, personality, actions??

Speaking of Jon being in Ghost, it reminded me of this interview some of the guys did at the Oxford Union. It was pretty hysterical all around but this one thing Kit said had me in tears from laughing so hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRm5mvt_qD4

[faizoff]

I have a question if anyone can answer cause it's been a while since I've seen season 2. But at the end of the season, Theon is betrayed by his Greyjoy troops and handed over to Ramsay. Can anyone remember why this was done? I'm assuming those Greyjoy troops also abandoned their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy?

They didn't exactly abandon their loyalty to Balon Greyjoy. An offer was made that if they gave up Theon then they would let the rest of the Ironborn go (Robb Stark told Roose Bolton to do this, and Roose Bolton sent Ramsay to Winterfell). So the Ironborn were just betraying Theon to try to save their own skin and be allowed to go back to the Iron Islands. Ramsay confirmed later in the series though that he did not honour the deal and killed those Ironborn anyway.

That's right, I remember now. Thanks!

[BlackInk]

Speaking of Jon being in Ghost, it reminded me of this interview some of the guys did at the Oxford Union. It was pretty hysterical all around but this one thing Kit said had me in tears from laughing so hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRm5mvt_qD4

That is really funny. I also love John Bailey's reaction.

I really liked the Tyrion/Dragon Scene. It wasn't flashy and I never felt like he was in any danger (I mean, they wouldn't kill him off like that...right?) but how he spoke to them as if they were people to gain their trust was interesting.

For a short nervous moment I thought he was walking into the end of Quentyn's storyline 

I still think (if the popular theory is true and he's half Targaryn) that it'd have been neat to have him not burn in a burial fire and resurrect as the fire burned. But, oh well...it is what it is. It's not that I think it was lame...it's just that it was expected. Everyone and their mother knew he was coming back so I think that took away from the scene a bit but all in all I was happy with how it went.

Exactly this for me, I was just hyped for Tormund to get his pyre going so we could get to a fiery resurrection scene. But oh well.

[cramx3]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

Agreed and given Ghost's reaction last night, it is possible he did warg into ghost in the show and could only warg back into his body once life was given to it.

but it'd seem like there would have been more emphasis on the fact that he was 'in' ghost. Other than Ghost howling after he died and trying to get out of his pen and then snarling to defend his body....there was no real "sign" that Jon had warged into Ghost. I'm doubting that he warged into him (on the show)...i think it was/is as simple as he was resurrected...just curious to see how being dead for a bit affects his demeanor, personality, actions??

Well, it's just a thought based on a mixture of the book material and what we saw.  I think you are likely correct, but given what we saw, it is still open to be possible.

[gmillerdrake]

So, Jon Snow is still dead in the books?

In the book, he wargs into Ghost at the end, or at least that's the conclusion one could come to.

I think Jon's resurrection might have seemed disappointing because we were expecting it, but not so soon, or maybe it's because everybody was out of the room when it happened so there was no emotion from others yet. Don't get me wrong. I love that he is back, but it seemed so nonchalant and anticlimactic.

Agreed and given Ghost's reaction last night, it is possible he did warg into ghost in the show and could only warg back into his body once life was given to it.

but it'd seem like there would have been more emphasis on the fact that he was 'in' ghost. Other than Ghost howling after he died and trying to get out of his pen and then snarling to defend his body....there was no real "sign" that Jon had warged into Ghost. I'm doubting that he warged into him (on the show)...i think it was/is as simple as he was resurrected...just curious to see how being dead for a bit affects his demeanor, personality, actions??

Well, it's just a thought based on a mixture of the book material and what we saw.  I think you are likely correct, but given what we saw, it is still open to be possible.

absolutely..you're right. I don't read the books but wasn't Jon Snow's last words in the last book as he was dying "Ghost"? It's not out of the realm of possibility by any means. I would have thought though that 'if' they had taken this direction that there'd have been at least some sort of more detailed attention paid to Ghost than there had been up to the point of his resurrection. Unless they are just leaving the audience as clueless as the characters on the show were.

[BlackInk]

For me, the biggest clue that he wargs into Ghost is the A Dance With Dragons prologue. That seemed to exist for the reason to set something else up. To explain how warging can work when you die.

The biggest clue against it now is that it doesn't seem like he did. But maybe. Maybe he was so inexperienced that he didn't know he was in Ghost, he just thought he was a wolf for a day. Didn't Bran act like a wolf completely when he wargs in the beginning, when he didn't know that he was warging?

[ariich]

For a short nervous moment I thought he was walking into the end of Quentyn's storyline 

I briefly thought the same thing. But I quickly decided that they wouldn't kill off Tyrion like that.

For me, the biggest clue that he wargs into Ghost is the A Dance With Dragons prologue. That seemed to exist for the reason to set something else up. To explain how warging can work when you die.

The biggest clue against it now is that it doesn't seem like he did. But maybe. Maybe he was so inexperienced that he didn't know he was in Ghost, he just thought he was a wolf for a day. Didn't Bran act like a wolf completely when he wargs in the beginning, when he didn't know that he was warging?

It's possible they're going down that route, but then warging in the show is generally less prominent than in the books (e.g. we've seen no hint of it from Arya) so they might just ignore it entirely.

[cramx3]

absolutely..you're right. I don't read the books but wasn't Jon Snow's last words in the last book as he was dying "Ghost"? It's not out of the realm of possibility by any means. I would have thought though that 'if' they had taken this direction that there'd have been at least some sort of more detailed attention paid to Ghost than there had been up to the point of his resurrection. Unless they are just leaving the audience as clueless as the characters on the show were.

Im not at all arguing with you here, just bringing up another point.  Ghost had a lot of air time the last two episodes compared to how much time we have seen of him in the rest of the show.  In general the CGI for the direwolves is expensive so that's why they aren't featured nearly as much as they should.  But just showing Ghost in these scenes and his reactions has been more than normal.  Granted, the show runners have a knack for teasing the book readers and I honestly think this is likely one of those teases since as ariich noted, warging in general is not as prominent in the show.  The books actually make it seem like all of the Starks may be able to warg.  In the show, it is clearly only Bran (and Bran is way more powerful as well since he can warg a human).

[MirrorMask]

I agree Jon's resurrection was somewhat lame.

I still think (if the popular theory is true and he's half Targaryn) that it'd have been neat to have him not burn in a burial fire and resurrect as the fire burned. But, oh well...it is what it is.

Targaryens do burn, as the very very very old maester who was at the Wall did.

Dany coming unscathed out of Drogo's pyre was a miracle, George R.R. Martin explicitly said so using that very word, "miracle".  It was a once in a lifetime event, Dany herself would burn again if lit aflame.

About the episode... yay, he's back! we waited a long time for him but finally he's back... welcome back, Hodor! 

Am I the only one, and I can't believe I'm typing this, who's sad at Roose Bolton's dead? Robb's killer, this cold blooded calculating soft spoken bastard reduced to a pawn in Ramsay's scheme? I know that Game of Thrones isn't exactly the kind of story when good guys are avenged with a satisfying vengeance and a witty one liner to top it up, but it's so unsatisfying that Roose Bolton dies the same way as someone else in the next scene - betrayed by his own kin. Joffrey's death was satisfying, even if it was not a direct revenge, this one feels so random. I bet in the books he wouldn't have died that way.

I guess Ramsay will be made the centerpiece of the storyline, he will go down in the battle against Jon Snow and so Roose wasn't "needed" anymore... but what an unsatisfying demise fot that interesting bastard.

And I want a comedy spinoff of Tyrion and Varys, hehe! loved his scene with the dragon, and yeah, the Bran stuff was golden.

[cramx3]

Agreed about Targaryens burning, I had thought it had to do with "the blood of the dragon" and not all Targaryens actually have it.  Such as Viserion who claimed it constantly, yet his head melted from his crown for a king  but in the show Dany is shown in the first episode that the boiling water didn't effect her or when she touched the eggs after they were heated.

Also, I was upset with Roose's death just because he was a character who had been around for a long time and I thought we would see more of a Roose vs. Ramsay feud, but that clearly didn't last very long.

[ariich]

Am I the only one...

No you're not:

Ramsay is just horrible whereas Roose was a really interesting character so it's kinda lame that he's gone. Unless, of course, the theory that he's immortal is right and he somehow comes back.

[Dimitrius]

The lame thing, to me, about Roose's death was that Roose "Tywin-lite" Bolton was totally not expecting Ramsay to try to kill him right then and there? :/

[gmillerdrake]

The lame thing, to me, about Roose's death was that Roose "Tywin-lite" Bolton was totally not expecting Ramsay to try to kill him right then and there? :/

Yeah...I mean, he'd have to know that having a 'natural' heir was not going to sit well with Ramsay? For all his planning and well thought out escapades he couldn't see that his rabid mutt bastard son was a loose cannon and would totally do that? Seemed like a silly way for him to die..

[sneakyblueberry]

rabid mutt bastard son

I love this.

[faizoff]

I thought it was very fitting personally of what Ramsay did, and Roose was the kind of person who looked like he had Ramsay in check all the time. All said and done it was a great scene and it made Ramsay that more menacing.

[Dimitrius]

The lame thing, to me, about Roose's death was that Roose "Tywin-lite" Bolton was totally not expecting Ramsay to try to kill him right then and there? :/

Yeah...I mean, he'd have to know that having a 'natural' heir was not going to sit well with Ramsay? For all his planning and well thought out escapades he couldn't see that his rabid mutt bastard son was a loose cannon and would totally do that? Seemed like a silly way for him to die..

Even more so after he made that remark to Ramsay last week about "let's hope Walda is having a boy".

[gmillerdrake]

I thought it was very fitting personally of what Ramsay did, and Roose was the kind of person who looked like he had Ramsay in check all the time. All said and done it was a great scene and it made Ramsay that more menacing.

True...Roose probably was overconfident in his stature and standing, and control over Ramsay and probably didn't think he had anything to worry about....that he could always hold being the 'true' heir over his head not thinking Ramsay would ever conspire against him.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Even though I agree it was a bit cheesy and expected I giggled of joyed like a schoolgirl man. Such a tease that ended in climax! 

[cramx3]

Won't lie, when Roose first was stabbed, I wasn't totally sure who stabbed who thinking it was more likely Ramsay doing the stabbing (although Roose had a motive to kill him too when you think about it) but also the angle they showed made it difficult to determine immediately.

[Adami]

Won't lie, when Roose first first stab, I wasn't totally sure who stabbed who thinking it was more likely Ramsay doing the stabbing (although Roose had a motive to kill him too when you think about it) but also the angle they showed made it difficult to determine immediately.

I honestly was expecting Roose to stab Ramsay even before it happened.

[Progmetty]

I can't for the life of me understand why they let Thorne and Olly go, I thought they would have executed them right away or imprisoned them..

[ariich]

I can't for the life of me understand why they let Thorne and Olly go, I thought they would have executed them right away or imprisoned them..

Er, they did imprison them.

[orcus116]

I don't care if they feel imprisonment is the right thing to do, you execute them on the spot no questions asked. Especially Olly.

[Prog Snob]

Won't lie, when Roose first was stabbed, I wasn't totally sure who stabbed who thinking it was more likely Ramsay doing the stabbing (although Roose had a motive to kill him too when you think about it) but also the angle they showed made it difficult to determine immediately.

I think it could have went either way. Eventually Ramsay was going to do something that really pissed off Roose. It's obvious they didn't agree on a lot.