Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Ruba]

I understand and respect your opinion.
But doesn't This dying soul, ITNOG, kick @$$ also?

You're meaning my opinion?

They are good songs, but have overly long instrumental sections. They have good sections, but as a whole they are too long and go on for unnecessarily long.

But that´s just my opinion.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Ah, I understand. Thanks for sharing your opinion, but if they are overly long, what about Octavarium? Badass and perfectly needed like Petrucci's solo and rudess. That song was good.

[Ruba]

Ah, I understand. Thanks for sharing your opinion, but if they are overly long, what about Octavarium? Badass and perfectly needed like Petrucci's solo and rudess. That song was good.

I don´t like Octavarium neither,

Again, just my opinion. Intervals is one of the most intense moments in any DT song.

[abydos]

Octavarium, after editing out all the bad parts, becomes a nice 10 minute song.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

@Rulba: Really? Why don't you like it? And I agree, Intervals is intense.
@Abydos: 10 mins? What part of the song would you cut off?I'm guessing the extremely long intro?

[abydos]

I don't remember exactly since I did that years ago, but basically the most of the intro, most likely half the instrumental sections (mostly Rudess parts) and stuff like that. I could make a list but I don't want to ruin the taste in my mouth, I just went through ACOS and it was amazing .

edit: also, cut Razor's Edge, or w/e the part after the last Octavarium is called by 50 or 100%. It ruins the climax, and while it's not bad in itself, I don't like how it fits into the ending. And it's a bit too long

[V_R11]

[/quote]
I'm curious, what makes you like SC more than Images, FII, SFAM, SDOIT, ToT?
[/quote]

Well, there's just something about SC. Lot of great riffs there. The concept of evil spirits is interesting. I fell in love with The Ministry of Lost Souls at the first listening. Constant Motion speaks to me because I suffer from the same kind of disorder. Repentance is the first Petrucci solo I ever learned and I'm currently trying to learn ITPOE part 1.
All in all it's really though for me to rank DT albums because each of them has good parts. SFAM is right there on my list after SC and ADTOE. FII is an attempt to make DT more mainstream and that's just not what they're about. I do like Images except for the poor sound quality, ToT has some incredible songs like ITNOG and SDOIT the song is definitely a masterpiece. I just prefer SC as a whole because there's not a song on that album that goes over my head. For example I don't really like The Great Debate or Blind Faith from SDOIT even if I've tried. Some DT songs may just take more understanding of music than what I have. Does that make any sense?

[MirrorMask]

Octavarium, after editing out all the bad parts, becomes a nice 10 minute song.

I remember editing The Ministry of the Lost Souls, turning it into an 8 minute slow piece that is consistent in tone and style from beginning to end without having at all the random solo section that stretches it until 15 minutes. I know some people dislike that section (me included) and others think it's the best part of the song, so it's surely controversial 

[jakepriest]

The instrumental section is the only decent part of TMOLS. The rest of the song drags SC down a ton.

[Tomislav95]

Octavarium, after editing out all the bad parts, becomes a nice 24 minute song.

FTFY

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

[hefdaddy42]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

I find the differences between the two negligible.  Both are pretty bad.

[pcs90]

edit: also, cut Razor's Edge, or w/e the part after the last Octavarium is called by 50 or 100%. It ruins the climax, and while it's not bad in itself, I don't like how it fits into the ending. And it's a bit too long

What!? That's the best part of the whole song!

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

I find the differences between the two negligible.  Both are pretty bad.

Well, YnM is pretty fun to listen to. Catchy chorus, one. of their most unique, if I say so myself.

[pcs90]

I find the differences between the two negligible.  Both are pretty bad.

I agree. A lot of other songs would have fit better on the album.

[MirrorMask]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

I agree, both songs are not the end of the world but You Not Me works for what it is, a shorter, catchier tune. Desmond Child served his purpouse, he took tje song and made it more concise and gave it a better chorus.

It's ironic how they brought a hit maker to make a song more "for the masses", and that song was never used a single and barely played live. In a three hour Evening With show I wouldn't even mind to hear it just for the novelty of it.

[BlobVanDam]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

I find the differences between the two negligible.

That (although I find both to be mediocre, not bad).

[425]

The chorus is much better in You Not Me. Turns it from mediocre to decent.

[XB0BX]

It's my favorite album along with Systematic Chaos

I like you.

[XB0BX]

Hell's Kitchen is 100% wasted on being an individual song. Should have been a climax to an epic.

[jakepriest]

Hell's Kitchen is 100% wasted on being an individual song. Should have been a climax to an epic.

This might be right actually now that I think about it, since I rarely listen to it on its own.

Also, been a long time since I've seen you on here. 

[Rodni Demental]

Do any of you guys think You not Me is a much better songs than You or Me? I find YnM to be more cleaner and in one place while YoM is messy and doesn't appeal to me as much

I find the differences between the two negligible.  Both are pretty bad.

Well, YnM is pretty fun to listen to. Catchy chorus, one. of their most unique, if I say so myself.

Nah nah nah... YoM is waaay better.
YnM ruins the chorus and changes the entire context and meaning of the original song. While it's far from being the most mindblowing song DT has ever written, I think YoM had a lot more going for it than what happened to the album version, infact if they'd polished the song from the demo version (like the rest of the studio releases) without modifying it so much, I would say that the song might not have the reputation is has today. I'm just as likely completely wrong though and I understand JP was probably as much responsible as anyone for the changes.

[Stadler]

Controversial DT Opinion:  if it wasn't "Desmond Child" in the credits, we wouldn't be having these debates. 

[425]

See, to me, the You Not Me chorus is way better. The You Or Me chorus repeats the same melody and same sentiment. "It's you or me, and I can't see the difference" repeated at least twice. You Not Me, on the other hand, has a chorus that flows and is not nearly as repetitive. "It's all about you, not me, it's all about the things that you're expecting me to be" then we repeat the melody but with different words "There's not enough time to live and all that you're expecting me to give." The different lyrics and inflection make the chorus feel like it's a complete thing that flows from start to finish instead of a repeated line, which makes the song much stronger.

Neither song is a work of lyrical genius, so that's not really a factor for me. It's either about an angsty guy who's annoyed by the people around him or an angsty guy who's annoyed by a romantic partner. The words are mostly the same, except, again, the lyrics in the chorus are definitely better in You Not Me.

[Stadler]

The only thing that really bugs me about that song (and a couple of the songs on that record, to be honest) are the cheesy gang background vocals.   "It's all about YYYEEEEEEEEOOOOOOWWWWW, not MMMMMAAAAAAYYYYYYY."    You can really hear it on the making of CD (though I understand about listening to individual parts stand alone; it's the final song that bugs me).

[NotePad]

Octavarium is a great example of a good long Dream Theater song.

[jakepriest]

Octavarium is a great example of a good long Dream Theater song.

Is that really controversial? 

[V_R11]

Octavarium is a great example of a good long Dream Theater song.

Is that really controversial? 

I don't think so. Do a lot of people really dislike that piece?

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Octavarium is a great example of a good long Dream Theater song.

Is that really controversial? 

I don't think so. Do a lot of people really dislike that piece?

One thing I know is that people think Octavarium is one of the best dt songs ever next change of seasons. Well, that's what I hear people say.

[Setlist Scotty]

Well, YnM is pretty fun to listen to. Catchy chorus, one. of their most unique, if I say so myself.

Of course it is, since it's the only song they co-wrote with Desmond Child.   
 
 

It's ironic how they brought a hit maker to make a song more "for the masses", and that song was never used a single and barely played live. In a three hour Evening With show I wouldn't even mind to hear it just for the novelty of it.

While YNM was never released as a commercial single (few of their songs ever were), it was released as a promo single. As for playing it live, obviously MP, who created the setlists when he was in the band, hated the song for what happened and I think because of this and the fact that the majority of the fanbase doesn't like the song are the reasons why it was never played more than a handful of times. However, he did talk about bringing YoM back for the next tour (which would've been for album #11, but having quit beforehand, never came to fruition).
 
 

The chorus is much better in You Not Me. Turns it from mediocre to decent.

The chorus is better - that I'll agree. But the final song doesn't flow like it did in demo form. That whole stop-start thing with the chorus makes it feel like it's cut and paste between two separate songs. And the cutting out of the interlude before the guitar solo kills me. So I'll still choose YoM over YNM.

[Rodni Demental]

See, to me, the You Not Me chorus is way better. The You Or Me chorus repeats the same melody and same sentiment. "It's you or me, and I can't see the difference" repeated at least twice. You Not Me, on the other hand, has a chorus that flows and is not nearly as repetitive.

Fair point, I'll give that the YNM chorus is certainly more melodically interesting. I'll also clarify, that while I'm saying the lyrics are better in YoM, it's only relative to YNM. It reversed the point entirely and looses the meaning of the original song. Obviously JP didn't have too much of a problem with this but as we get to hear the change, I can say I prefer the original. Also, I don't get the angsty vibe in YoM. It actually feels like that song is much more neutral, and compromising, insinuating there's little difference between me or you and if anything seems to be opposing the view that would see an extreme difference. But the final song actually seems to represent this view and just feels uncompromising and resentful, I think that vibe rubs me wrong way with YNM and so the other improvements melodically don't make up for it. Also, I love JLB singing in most cases but those are probably his worst backing vocals ever in YNM chorus.

Additional controversial opinion: When I think about it, some of his octave harmonies on FII, TOT and even SFAM are my least favourite things for JLB to do with his voice. Took a while for me to tolerate or appreciate those.

[abydos]

The main guitar riff in YNM and the solo are great, but they are just outshined by the other amazing work on that album (2:40-3:08 and the outro are pure awesomeness). I also find the lyrics being a bit funny/ironic given the situation the band was in. It's a bit like the corporate Never Enough (but many times better than NE in every way).

[JediKnight1969]

Controversial DT Opinion:  if it wasn't "Desmond Child" in the credits, we wouldn't be having these debates.

Absolutely true.

[MirrorMask]

My controversial opinion for today is... well, Liquid Tension Experiment not only brought Jordan in the band, but also brought the attitude and the purpouse behind that project - compose and record on the fly - and this shows up especially during the solo sections of the songs, and it's not always a good thing.

DT always had crazy instrumental sections, but I feel that they always were fitting to the songs in the earlier albums. Let's sit around fake-playing Metropolis: one sings, another one makes guitar noises with his mouth, another one "drums" with chinese food sticks etc... I'm confident I could hum along my way through the *entire* solo section of that song, as long as it is. Play me a random solo section of any of the latter albums, especially the latest ones with Portnoy, and I seriously doubt I could recognize it on the fly, I think I could spend 30 seconds or even a minute without being able to say "Wait, it's this song".

And this because, IMHO of course, when it comes to write a solo section most of the times they don't come up with something fitting the mood of the song, but rather they turn the LTE light on, jam jam jam, riff riff riff, write write write and whatever comes up ends up being the solo section of the song. Take Endless Sacrifice for example, what's the point and purpouse of having a comedy circus break in the middle of a song about long distant relationships? it feels so random, and takes away from the mood of the song. When I hear Metropolis I'm immersed for 10 minutes in the atmosphere of Metropolis; when I hear The Ministry of Lost Souls I hear a slow melanchonic piece, then I feel thrown into an LTE jam session, and after 5 minutes I don't remember at all they suddenly go "ah, wait, we were singing about someone drowning or whatever".

This has improved in the two Mangini albums, and I hope the next record won't have many of these "Nevermind this song, enjoy this 4 minute jam that we came up the day we were recording the song" moments. And lucky the ones who enjoy them anyway, I'd add

[pcs90]

Well, many times they write the instrumentals first before the lyrics, no? So if that is the case, it makes a bit more sense. Of course they could always cut or change the instrumental after they had lyrics, though. But honestly, I find the Metropolis instrumental boring and I don't remember half of it. I could certainly recognize it, but when I listen to that song that is actually my least favorite part...which is funny because I love instrumental stuff. I much prefer Outcry's instrumental that a lot of people on here seem to hate.