We are talking about instrumentation as well. The moment of the band pulling back as a guitar power chord rings for a few measures. And that evokes a mood of the end of a movement.
Sure. On a micro level there might be moments like that. But Outcry absolutely does not evoke the same emotion as Metropolis. And I find it bizarre that some people are contending that it does.
This is not constructive. I'm sure I could find something similar from the other side.
It gets right to the core of the problem. Go to OP. They gave a very respectful analysis and didn't try to bring in any motives to why this happened. They were immediately met with scorn and ridicule. Maybe just try not jumping on somebody for analyzing music for having a tin foil hat, and just maybe it would be a pretty straightforward discussion sharing musical analysis. You'd think that would be welcomed by DT fans.[/quote]
There are some questionable comments on the first page, but nothing as bad as what you're making it sound like. But like I said, both sides of this are being pretty insulting towards the other.
Someone who doesn't hear the comparison is not a "defender of the faith" by default. And in my opinion, saying things like that is a cheap way of "scorning and ridiculing" those who disagree with you.
Why does it matter?
Because this is what musicians or just music appreciation entails. Deconstructing songs. Talking about music on a deeper level than "rawks".
There's a lot to be desired in terms of analysis here. Personally, I don't get anything from a list of timestamps and descriptions of similarities. Okay, there are similarities. No one has shown me why I should care beyond "hmm, that's sort of interesting" which has been my reaction the many times when this has come up in the past.
Maybe if someone were to elaborate on what the similarities mean in the context of the song. I've tried to note that what we have are songs that come across very differently despite their notable similarities in structure. That line of conversation hasn't taken me far. Some people have agreed, everyone on the side of "look at all these similarities," however, has either ignored what I've said or continued to insist that the things I think are strong differences are actually similarities.
And all the while everybody calls everybody else fanboys or haters or "defenders of the faith."
What is either side seeking to prove?
Then you are asking the wrong question. They are sharing and looking for constructive discussion. Seems like only one side is trying to prove something.
Maybe that's the problem. Once again, what does this mean for the songs? There is not a whole to gain from a list of timestamped similarities.
How many pages of this and I think only two actual posts on discussing the structures in any form of detail and thoughtfulness. I made an effort to get it back to the OP's intent by providing something I broke down in 2011. But considering 4 years later the BS back and forth won't die down, I doubt it ever will. Maybe it will work in 2025 when people are far enough removed from feeling like they need to defend DT ... from nothing.
I keep trying to talk about the different emotional and musical aspects of the song, as I think it's interesting that two songs have strong similarities but use those structures to achieve different ends musically, but that really hasn't gotten anyway. I just get told "no, they're copies."
But considering 4 years later the BS back and forth won't die down, I doubt it ever will. Maybe it will work in 2025 when people are far enough removed from feeling like they need to defend DT ... from nothing.
Personally, I think jumping to the conclusion that this is what people are doing when they say they don't hear the similarities or quote Petrucci disputing the claim is not productive. But what do I known.