Poll

First thoughts?

Instant classic
184 (27.1%)
Very strong
314 (46.3%)
Decent
98 (14.5%)
Meh
41 (6%)
Disappointing
41 (6%)

Total Members Voted: 647

Author Topic: What are your thoughts on DT12?  (Read 155503 times)

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Offline wolfking

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #280 on: September 22, 2013, 04:31:05 AM »
STR is really good and another that needs time.  Love the outro.

AFTR is better in the context of the album and I quite enjoyed it.

I'm now 3 minutes in on IT.  Fuck me, these riffs are insane.  Loving JP's riffing all over this album, some of the strongest they have ever come up with.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline wolfking

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #281 on: September 22, 2013, 04:40:48 AM »
Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Cowards for salvation
Money, love, and faith

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
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Offline Ruba

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #282 on: September 22, 2013, 06:03:38 AM »
In my opinion this is DT in their finest hour...an epic masterpiece that will be practically impossible to beat. In fact, this album moves me emotionally like no other music has ever done. That is no small accomplishment. It makes me feel bad for those who aren't enjoying it.

Don't worry, I will still have WDADU, IAW, Awake and FII! :smiley:

Offline Nofire

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #283 on: September 22, 2013, 09:01:17 AM »
Here is my highly subjective view of this album. I'm using the following scale:

1: Not good
2: Alright
3: Good
4: Great
5: Amazing

False awakening Suite: It starts off very dramatically and Symphony X-ish, and I can see how it will serve a purpose as a show opener. However, listening to it on the album doesn't do much for me. 2/5

The enemy inside: Standard modern DT rocker with loads of energy and some nice melodies. I like it, but it doesn't bring anything to the table that I haven't heard before. For me, a typically average DT song (which does not mean an average song, since DT is pretty much always a level or two above almost everyone else). 2/5

The looking glass: Here is where the album becomes really interesting for me. A very "Rushy" opening riff, and some nice "synth carpets" as we say in Sweden, to provide a strong atmosphere. The first part of the verse sounds kind of bland, but the transition to the opening riff is great although the following transition to the acoustic part is a bit too sudden for my taste. I love how the chorus builds up though and the "you live without shame..." part is great! The solo section is really cool with some great chord progressions and I LOVE how audible JM is. All in all, a really good song that sets the tone for the rest of the album, but with probably the most unimaginative ending ever. 4/5

The enigma machine: The opening notes really give me that spy theme that the band has mentioned. I picture a dark and rainy night in a big city filled with people in trenchcoats. Could have been a part of the soundtrack to "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy". The short "DT-craziness" section feels a little out of place, but the riff-o-mania that follows is great, and i like the key changes during the solo battle. It's a fun song to listen to, almost like having a drink and a laugh with your buddies, but it doesn't stick out in any way. 3/5

The bigger picture: This is a very interesting song. At first, I found it beautiful but not cohesive. However, this has changed the more  I listen to it. Mood-wise, I think it sounds like something from JLB:s solo albums. I love the dark ballady feel of it. The first verse is beautifully sung, and the subtle guitar work in the back (which I just discovered after hearing it multiple times) before the acoustic kicks in is very nice. GREAT chorus. I like that the guitar solo is more of a melody than a solo, and it's very nicely harmonized. Sounds like something from FII. The piano break with the heartbeat is amazing, and the long ending is unexpected but brilliant. 4/5

Behind the veil: Intro is fantastic, and what JR plays from around 00:48 is very moving and epic as well as the bombastic band entrance. I'm really disappointed though that they don't build the song around that part, and it makes the song less enjoyable for me. It feels as if they opened the door to something that could be the best thing they've ever done, but then closed it for something much more average. The climactic ending to the guitar solo and the following chorus almost brings that mood back, but not all the way. 3/5

Surrender to reason: Again, a very Rushy intro, but again, I wished that they would have come back to it more in order for the song to be more cohesive. I think it would almost fit better into TLG. It's not as disappointing as in BTV though, since the rest of the song is very emotional, especially JP's guitar melody. Cool solo. As with TBP, I find it to be a very interesting song that is a bit overwhelming the first couple of times you hear it because of its density. I like how the song ends with the intro. 4/5

Along for the ride: I really loved this song when I first heard it, and that hasn't changed. It's as if TITL and BTS had a child together. The melodies are very strong, and JP's arpeggios are tasty as hell. I usually don't pay that much attention to the lyrics, but this chorus really gets to me. The words, how they are delivered, and what surrounds them makes it one of the best ever from DT. The song itself also sits very well between the incredibly dense song that precedes it and the epic that follows. It gives the album some much needed breathing room, much like FFH on ADTOE. Can't wait to see this live. 4/5

Illumination theory: Now this is what I have been waiting for since Octavarium. I expected something along the lines of maybe ITPOE, but I was not prepared for the riff-factory that this song is. The song feels like an album itself, with the epic intro, groovy riffing, intense verse/chorus section, hypnotizing soundscape/string section, and what comes after that is probably the greatest thing ever recorded by DT. When the final sweep of the guitar fades out, it feels like my mind has left my body. There are so many highlights in this song, but what sticks out the most is the part right after the strings. That swirling sound just tells you that something drastic is about to happen, and then a god-like performance from JLB. I can't listen to it without giggling out of sheer amazement. A great solo section, thanks to the straight feel of it (makes me think of TTT or Home), and then a really epic ending with the climax being JP's solo. The easter egg then tells you "go home, the show is over". 5/5

Conclusion: For me, this is possibly the most interesting album DT has made in a long time, and the transition BC&SL --> ADTOE --> DT12 is really promising for the future of this band. It feels as if they have really focused on the songwriting, and polished what could have been long and stretched out songs (like TCOT or ANTR) into songs in the 6-7 minute range. This makes it harder to take in at first, as there are many things to digest in each song, but I find that these albums are the ones who stand the test of time best. The album sounds very mature, and they have cut down on the more youthful metal/"really complex unisons/harmonies" in favor for melodies and chord progressions, which I personally like much more.

Something else that I have thought about is the timing of the release in relation to the overall feel of the songs. If this album would have been released in the spring, I'm not sure if I would have liked it as much as I do. The songs have a heavy, melancholy feel that really goes hand in hand with the change from summer to fall, when it gets colder and darker outside, the leaves fall from the trees, and life in general feels a little more grey and melancholy. Personally, I love this time of year, as it gives me time for reflection and "soul searching". I love the feeling of sitting inside my warm apartment curled up in the corner of my couch under a blanket with a good book and a cup of tea while it's cold and rainy outside, and this album highlights these emotions perfectly.

All in all, I find the album to be more than the sum of it's parts, and therefore, it gets a 5/5.

Thank you Dream Theater.
Trapped inside this Octavarium

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #284 on: September 22, 2013, 09:17:50 AM »
So my position here has softened since I got the official album with the 5.1

I did a track by track:

False Awakening Suite: A short piece that has interesting moments but fails to gain much momentum and suffers from a lack of fluidity. It seems to lack purpose. Score: 2/5

The Enemy Inside: An exceptional instrumental section and JP/JR solo spot gives existential validity to this otherwise vanilla prog metal tune. Score: 3/5

The Looking Glass: Dream Theater play to their strengths here moreso than anywhere else on the album, infusing old-school progressive metal with their trademark instrumental craftmanship and LaBrie's Arena Rock knack for melody. Score: 5/5

Enigma Machine: It's not as bad as "Raw Dog", but it lacks direction and fails to mesmerize despite showcasing virtuosity. It might be a lot more fun to watch live. Score: 2/5

The Bigger Picture: This dynamic and powerful song spirals out of control after the first chorus, but that instrumental build-up into the finale puts everything back into perspective. Score: 4/5

Behind the Veil: Parts of good and bad songs are jarbled together without much regard for fluidity.  JP's solo almost saves the song, but we've seen that trick too many times before. Despite feeling clunky on the first few listens, the song is a lot better once the listener becomes more familiar with itScore: 2/5 3/5

Surrender to Reason: The Rush influences on this album are starting to feel blatant. Dream Theater are obviously lifelong disciples, but even they should know how to avoid those awful 70's Rush transitions by now. The chorus hook and ending sections are addictive, though. Score: 2/5 3/5

Along for the Ride: A solid effort that sits well beside songs like "Wither" and "This is the Life". Score: 3/5

Illumination Theory: For every fantastic section of this 22 minute song, there is section that feels like a mere formality - including & especially Rush homages. I love the orchestrated section, and the piano/guitar fadeout at the very end. Can we have more of that? Score: 3/5

In sum, things seem looser in DT world this time around. DT12 is a mixed bag that continues to demonstrate that band's excellent musicianship and creativity, but homages to the band's influences are too prominent, and the songcrafting is more concise but nowhere near as seamless as on A Dramatic Turn of EventsOverall: 6.5 7.25/10

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #285 on: September 22, 2013, 09:20:07 AM »
Here is my highly subjective view of this album. I'm using the following scale:

1: Not good
2: Alright
3: Good
4: Great
5: Amazing

False awakening Suite: It starts off very dramatically and Symphony X-ish, and I can see how it will serve a purpose as a show opener. However, listening to it on the album doesn't do much for me. 2/5

The enemy inside: Standard modern DT rocker with loads of energy and some nice melodies. I like it, but it doesn't bring anything to the table that I haven't heard before. For me, a typically average DT song (which does not mean an average song, since DT is pretty much always a level or two above almost everyone else). 2/5

The looking glass: Here is where the album becomes really interesting for me. A very "Rushy" opening riff, and some nice "synth carpets" as we say in Sweden, to provide a strong atmosphere. The first part of the verse sounds kind of bland, but the transition to the opening riff is great although the following transition to the acoustic part is a bit too sudden for my taste. I love how the chorus builds up though and the "you live without shame..." part is great! The solo section is really cool with some great chord progressions and I LOVE how audible JM is. All in all, a really good song that sets the tone for the rest of the album, but with probably the most unimaginative ending ever. 4/5

The enigma machine: The opening notes really give me that spy theme that the band has mentioned. I picture a dark and rainy night in a big city filled with people in trenchcoats. Could have been a part of the soundtrack to "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy". The short "DT-craziness" section feels a little out of place, but the riff-o-mania that follows is great, and i like the key changes during the solo battle. It's a fun song to listen to, almost like having a drink and a laugh with your buddies, but it doesn't stick out in any way. 3/5

The bigger picture: This is a very interesting song. At first, I found it beautiful but not cohesive. However, this has changed the more  I listen to it. Mood-wise, I think it sounds like something from JLB:s solo albums. I love the dark ballady feel of it. The first verse is beautifully sung, and the subtle guitar work in the back (which I just discovered after hearing it multiple times) before the acoustic kicks in is very nice. GREAT chorus. I like that the guitar solo is more of a melody than a solo, and it's very nicely harmonized. Sounds like something from FII. The piano break with the heartbeat is amazing, and the long ending is unexpected but brilliant. 4/5

Behind the veil: Intro is fantastic, and what JR plays from around 00:48 is very moving and epic as well as the bombastic band entrance. I'm really disappointed though that they don't build the song around that part, and it makes the song less enjoyable for me. It feels as if they opened the door to something that could be the best thing they've ever done, but then closed it for something much more average. The climactic ending to the guitar solo and the following chorus almost brings that mood back, but not all the way. 3/5

Surrender to reason: Again, a very Rushy intro, but again, I wished that they would have come back to it more in order for the song to be more cohesive. I think it would almost fit better into TLG. It's not as disappointing as in BTV though, since the rest of the song is very emotional, especially JP's guitar melody. Cool solo. As with TBP, I find it to be a very interesting song that is a bit overwhelming the first couple of times you hear it because of its density. I like how the song ends with the intro. 4/5

Along for the ride: I really loved this song when I first heard it, and that hasn't changed. It's as if TITL and BTS had a child together. The melodies are very strong, and JP's arpeggios are tasty as hell. I usually don't pay that much attention to the lyrics, but this chorus really gets to me. The words, how they are delivered, and what surrounds them makes it one of the best ever from DT. The song itself also sits very well between the incredibly dense song that precedes it and the epic that follows. It gives the album some much needed breathing room, much like FFH on ADTOE. Can't wait to see this live. 4/5

Illumination theory: Now this is what I have been waiting for since Octavarium. I expected something along the lines of maybe ITPOE, but I was not prepared for the riff-factory that this song is. The song feels like an album itself, with the epic intro, groovy riffing, intense verse/chorus section, hypnotizing soundscape/string section, and what comes after that is probably the greatest thing ever recorded by DT. When the final sweep of the guitar fades out, it feels like my mind has left my body. There are so many highlights in this song, but what sticks out the most is the part right after the strings. That swirling sound just tells you that something drastic is about to happen, and then a god-like performance from JLB. I can't listen to it without giggling out of sheer amazement. A great solo section, thanks to the straight feel of it (makes me think of TTT or Home), and then a really epic ending with the climax being JP's solo. The easter egg then tells you "go home, the show is over". 5/5

Conclusion: For me, this is possibly the most interesting album DT has made in a long time, and the transition BC&SL --> ADTOE --> DT12 is really promising for the future of this band. It feels as if they have really focused on the songwriting, and polished what could have been long and stretched out songs (like TCOT or ANTR) into songs in the 6-7 minute range. This makes it harder to take in at first, as there are many things to digest in each song, but I find that these albums are the ones who stand the test of time best. The album sounds very mature, and they have cut down on the more youthful metal/"really complex unisons/harmonies" in favor for melodies and chord progressions, which I personally like much more.

Something else that I have thought about is the timing of the release in relation to the overall feel of the songs. If this album would have been released in the spring, I'm not sure if I would have liked it as much as I do. The songs have a heavy, melancholy feel that really goes hand in hand with the change from summer to fall, when it gets colder and darker outside, the leaves fall from the trees, and life in general feels a little more grey and melancholy. Personally, I love this time of year, as it gives me time for reflection and "soul searching". I love the feeling of sitting inside my warm apartment curled up in the corner of my couch under a blanket with a good book and a cup of tea while it's cold and rainy outside, and this album highlights these emotions perfectly.

All in all, I find the album to be more than the sum of it's parts, and therefore, it gets a 5/5.

Thank you Dream Theater.
:tup
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #286 on: September 22, 2013, 06:25:53 PM »
I had a thought :

If John Myung writes the lyrics - then who comes up with the vocal melody for that song ? JP or JLB ?

I can't imagine Myung singing the song to the other two.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #287 on: September 22, 2013, 08:50:05 PM »
I had a thought :

If John Myung writes the lyrics - then who comes up with the vocal melody for that song ? JP or JLB ?

I can't imagine Myung singing the song to the other two.

Since JP has worked with JM on the lyrics, I would guess JP.
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Offline SlitherX

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #288 on: September 23, 2013, 12:20:07 AM »
Heres my quick review:


FAS -  -/-   Cant really rate this one out of 10, but I will say that I love it. I've been wanting them to do something like this for a while and now that they did I feel really satisfied.  Alot of people make the Symphony X reference with Oculus and maybe that was an inspiration but this sounds very dream theater-like, in what seems like something Symphony X would do.. if that makes any sense.

The Enemy Inside - 8/10.   Definitely their best single of the RR era. Petrucci. Enough said. (Can be said throughout the whole album too, what a player).

The Looking Glass - 7.5/10.  Very Rush inspired. Uplifting and a nice contrast to TEI. Good tune.

Enigma Machine - 5/10.  Honestly its not too bad, but in comparison to the other DT instrumentals it really doesnt hold a candle to any of them, bar Raw Dog.

The Bigger Picture - 8.5/10.  Great song, very meaningful lyrics. I think the ending of it is a bit awkward, like they tried extending it too long. Has a mini-ish epic feel to it, for me anyways.

Behind The Veil - 8/10.  I absolutely love the chorus on this. Very catchy (Like most of the album). For whatever reason I like to think of this as the 'Outcry' of DT12.

Surrender To Reason - 9/10.  Again, amazing chorus!  Overall just a great song. Has really grown on me since first listen.

Along For The Ride - 7/10.  This one is weird for me. I hated it at first, then it grew on me but now I find I dont like it much.  I've only listened to it about 5 times, but its nothing too special. Jordans solo is too BTS-like.

Illumination Theory - 11/10.   Just wow. Mind = blown.  Its like if 8VM (song) and TCOT had a child, this would be it.  Amazing effort from all of them on this track and the lyrics/James' delivery  at the end brought tears to my eyes, tears that were only shed previously for the BEAUTIFUL string section prior.  Love this track, absolutely adore it... Maybe second to only ACOS for me.

Easter Egg -  Cant rate it, but I love it.  Movie over, lights fade in, have a goodnight.


Overall this album is fucken killer.  The word best used to describe it would be; Tight.  No out of place, over-done wankery dankery. Very fluent and well, tight album.  I always used to wonder for a song like A Nightmare To Remember... how extra awesome it would be if the 2nd half of the song wasnt over done with all the wankery and what not.  DT12 (For me) is amazing because it seems like they are more to the point.  We get it Jordan, your amazing.. We dont need you to do a 10 minute chicken solo to prove that.  They kept it short and sweet (by DT's standards) for the most part. and even when they did do their crazy stuff, it just flows so nicely and it doesnt seem out of place. its amazing.

Speaking of Jordan, I feel he was.. used, much more sparingly, yet effective on this album. Hes not front and center, but hes everywhere else doing the little things that matter. And when he is front and center (Illumination Theory for example), he owns it.   Petrucci from start to finish absolutely slays this album.  Myung can be heard! Love his bass parts, probably the best Myung album since.. Well, I&W! Yeah ill say it.   James sounds amazing, he really does. And Mangini - much like Jordan isn't full out raping this album, but yet complementing the other members and still doing his thing when it matters. The drumming is great!

 If it stands the test of time it could surpass SDOIT in my books, and have a place in my top 3. (Currently: Awake, FII and SDOIT).

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 12:33:54 AM by SlitherX »

Offline YtseJamittaja

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #289 on: September 23, 2013, 12:45:38 AM »
Okay, I think it's time for my track by track review as well:

FAS: Cool tune but a little bit too much in the same lines with recent symphonic metal bands like Nightwish. I would have expected a little more just strings and maybe band could have joined at the end only? Rate: 5/10

TEI: This has grown on me. I see why they chose this as a single. The main riff is still a bit too complicated for me that this really doesn't have a radio potential at all. Jordan's circus thing irritates me because it's just Jordan I have heard 1000 times at least. Cool guitar solo. Rate: 7.5/10

TLG: This was a really surprise for me. Old school DT, I was so happy! The intro is way too much Limelight and Rush for me but it doen't matter. The chorus could have been more catchy but this have still really uplifting vibe all the time so I'm satisfied. The bass sounds similar under the guitar solo. But that solo is one of JP's best on this record and this decade. Rate: 7.5/10

EM: This is already a track I skip from the album. Keyboard at the start sounds terrible. Some things are better than in Raw Dog but I could say this is among my least 20 DT songs. No highlights in this song. Rate: 3/10

TBP: Cool epic chorus intro. The chorus is my favourite of the album. A classic DT tune for me, nothing extra ordinary but this song rocks! Good balance of mellow and heavy on this sound. I would have liked to have one last chorus at the end of the song but it's missing there. Rate: 8.5/10

BTV: Really cool Jordan's intro. I have a feeling this songs could have sounded more heavy than it is.. Maybe a 7-string guitar and lower tune could have done it. The first verse is brutal, really nice. The chorus is my favourite tied with TBP. A special note for that sweep thing JP does in the final chorus, gives me goosebumps. Rate: 8.5/10

STR: Another Rush intro which I think is almost too much samey with Marathon and The Enemy Within. I don't like the first verse for some reason. That flanger guitar riff is something new. The chorus lacks here, I just don't feel it at all. The bass is really loud here and I really like it. That symphonic choir section in the middle of song is a highlight of the song. Rate: 6.5/10

AFTR: This song could have been on ADTOE. I find this song quite good though and I don't understand all the hate for this song. The chorus is catchy and I like these minor/major feel changes here. I just can't now unhear the keyboard solo comes a 16th bar late which Kotowboy mentioned (thanks..). The comp Mike plays when he enters sound a bit too technical for me. Rate: 7/10

IT: The intro is not really good in my opinion. For me, the real song starts at 1:15. That guitar riff at the start could have come more often. Another cool guitar riff at 3:34 which should also have get more space in the song. The verses and "chorus" in Live, Die, Kill does really nothing for me. I can see that athmosperic intro as a skip thing in the future. The string part is good, not awesome but touching. The part after the strings, really, is the best part of the album. Best JLB for a while, so much balls!! The final part is a bit too expected. That final "never know, never know" is lame, I would just have cutted James from there even though this is his best performance in 2010 decade. The easter egg is beatiful but I would have liked to hear it in the whole song. Rate: 7.5/10

Overall: A great album for sure. This really shows all sides of DT. This is good balance of old, new and maybe even future DT. I still think DT has gone too much away from the recognizable DT. These are good songs but DT is more and more similar than other prog metal bands. They could do a bit less time signature changes and make a little more compact record. This album is maybe a bit too much Petrucci's. He's soloing everywhere and takes a big space from Jordan. Mangini shows his skills really well. Myung is better/more hearable than ever. James is better than in ADTOE.
A really good classic DT album but not perfect at all. Overall rating: 8/10


Apologies for bad English, I'm too tired of rewatching for mistakes...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 01:10:23 AM by YtseJamittaja »
Do you even whahíbrido pickingant?

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #290 on: September 23, 2013, 12:58:37 AM »
BTV is played on a 7-string ;)

I agree with some of the things you said and I'll post my review the next time I'm using the Internet on my phone, because my write-ups are in the memory of the phone.

Offline YtseJamittaja

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #291 on: September 23, 2013, 01:08:48 AM »
BTV is played on a 7-string ;)

Oh I didn't notice! I think the guitar intro is still played on E, I just played that on guitar and thought immediately it's played on a 6-string!  :blush
Do you even whahíbrido pickingant?

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #292 on: September 23, 2013, 01:09:59 AM »
It is in E minor, but the song includes some low chords that utilize the additional B string.

Offline YtseJamittaja

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #293 on: September 23, 2013, 01:13:40 AM »
Okay, should have learned it better... Now I already hear those chords...
Do you even whahíbrido pickingant?

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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #294 on: September 23, 2013, 01:25:11 AM »
The outro/ending of TBP have echoed in my head all through the weekend.
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Offline Ruba

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #295 on: September 23, 2013, 01:28:07 AM »
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...

Offline wolfking

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #296 on: September 23, 2013, 05:01:50 AM »
After listening to this album 3 times, I am honestly floored, this album is simply insane.  I voted instant classic, because this has potential to be top 3 DT, perhaps even higher.  I was so disappointed with ADTOE, but DT12 is so much better than it in every single aspect.  I actually can't believe how good this is.  I'm also pleased with how heavy this is, it has so much balls and the riffs are probably the best the band have ever done.

Behind the Veil is simply one of the greatest songs they have ever done and IT is unbelievable really.  DT knocked this out of the fucking park.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #297 on: September 23, 2013, 05:02:35 AM »
Alright, this is what I think:

FAS: Decent intro, I guess, but nothing special. I'm not into symphonic metal anymore, so this kind of stuff isn't exactly my cup of tea.

TEI: I found this song average when it was first released and my opinion has remained the same. TEI is like a more generic OTBOA with Systematic Chaos-style riffing and I'm not fond of the part with the circus keyboards.

TLG: I actually like this song, but the Rush influence is quite blatant and it feels like DT's own personality is missing, which slightly detracts from my enjoyment.

EM: This is exactly the kind of instrumental you'd expect from DT - not a bad song, but rather unremarkable.

TBP: One of the highlights of the album, I liked it on the first listen already. I wish the second verse wasn't so busy and bombastic, because it lessens the impact of the second chorus. Luckily there are great melodies and JP's solo is wonderful!

BTV: Possibly my favorite on the album: another big chorus and sweet solo plus some solid riffs by JP.

STR: Undoubtedly the weakest song with JM's lyrics DT have released IMO, but still enjoyable with some nice moments. However, the choir patch part sounds a bit overdramatic in the context of the song and the intro (and outro) feels kind of tacked on, like it's there just for the sake of showing DT like Rush (something we know well already!).

AFTR: Great ballad with strong melodies and beautiful instrumentation - my opinion hasn't changed since I heard the Grammy.com stream.

IT: I had my fears when I heard there was going to be a 20-minute epic and sadly they became true. Don't get me wrong: there are truly great parts, but also a lot of uninteresting stuff and the song feels kind of disjointed. Surrender, Trust & Passion tries to be the new Razor's Edge (with a bit of 6DOIT Grand Finale thrown in) and I'm not a big fan of that piece to begin with. The Easter Egg is a nice ending for the album though.

Production and performances: I'm not an audiophile so the production doesn't bother me too much, although the record is a bit loud and the drum sound doesn't work on the softer moments. The band's playing is solid with nothing to complain about, but there also aren't any moments that made me go "wow!" with the exception of James' vocals in that one part of IT and maybe MM's drum solo in EM. However, it's great that JMX has a prominent role on the album.

Overall: I have mixed feelings... Some songs are nice, but even they have some little flaws and none of them have blown me away like BITS and BAI did 2 years ago. Then there are some songs that I don't really like and bring the album down. To put it short, DT12 is a decent album but quite underwhelming after ADTOE.

Offline Systematik88

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #298 on: September 23, 2013, 05:11:56 AM »
I really hear the influences of I&W and FII in this album.  I don't know how many times I've heard people say that about past albums but the feel of this one really seems like a good homage to their roots.  I also love how one of JP's solos, I think in Surrender to Reason, starts off sounding like the ending of Misunderstood and then goes crazy. Cool stuff!

Offline Orion1967

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #299 on: September 23, 2013, 05:56:59 AM »
Personally I have not felt this strong about a DT album since listening to Images and Words for the first time.  True Story.
I think this is their best work to date, hands down.  The complexities of the album are incredible, the songs all are ones that I listen to over and over and hear new stuff each time I play them.  I think this is a brilliant combination of soundscapes, tempo changes, complete style changes, and of course pristine chocolate cake. 

If I had to sum up the album in one word, it would have to be Brilliant.
Cool Story Bro. 

Tell it again

Offline serrano

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #300 on: September 23, 2013, 06:07:18 AM »
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...

7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet  ;)

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #301 on: September 23, 2013, 06:50:50 AM »
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...

7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet  ;)

I thought there was only a tab for TEI?

Offline Megabreath

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #302 on: September 23, 2013, 06:54:25 AM »
Just listened to it for the first time, brilliant album, every song pulls its weight and Illumination Theroy is incredible.  I am also finally glad to see the band change direction and make something a bit different from albums made up of 10 min songs.

Also I haven't seen many people mention how much better the lyrics are this time around, IMO that has been DT's weak point for years.

Offline Systematik88

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #303 on: September 23, 2013, 07:31:15 AM »
Just listened to it for the first time, brilliant album, every song pulls its weight and Illumination Theroy is incredible.  I am also finally glad to see the band change direction and make something a bit different from albums made up of 10 min songs.

Also I haven't seen many people mention how much better the lyrics are this time around, IMO that has been DT's weak point for years.

I agree.  No vampires visiting dreams or blood of the pharaohs.  But then again those lyrics can be entertaining once in awhile  ;D

Offline The Stray Seed

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #304 on: September 23, 2013, 08:33:52 AM »
After listening to this album 3 times, I am honestly floored, this album is simply insane.  I voted instant classic, because this has potential to be top 3 DT, perhaps even higher.  I was so disappointed with ADTOE, but DT12 is so much better than it in every single aspect.  I actually can't believe how good this is.  I'm also pleased with how heavy this is, it has so much balls and the riffs are probably the best the band have ever done.

Behind the Veil is simply one of the greatest songs they have ever done and IT is unbelievable really.  DT knocked this out of the fucking park.

You've nailed it man!  :tup

Offline OsMosis2259

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #305 on: September 23, 2013, 08:36:59 AM »
I would say this is a very strong album. I wasn't so sure with the first 3 listens but it still made me want to keep coming back and listen. Right now, I think I might still like ADTOE just a little better but DT12 is still a top 6 album. We'll see what happens in a few months :)

Offline ?

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #306 on: September 23, 2013, 08:44:20 AM »
Something I forgot to mention in my review: I listened to IT a couple of times after making the post where I said my opinion will make people hate me, and my comment on it is less negative now.

Offline Dark Castle

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #307 on: September 23, 2013, 08:48:41 AM »
Something I forgot to mention in my review: I listened to IT a couple of times after making the post where I said my opinion will make people hate me, and my comment on it is less negative now.
:tup

Offline JLa

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #308 on: September 23, 2013, 10:30:50 AM »
My thoughts after listening to this four times:

False Awakening Suite: Awesome
The Enemy Inside: Awesome
The Looking Glass: Awesome! (with an exclamation point!)
Enigma Machine: Awesome
The Bigger Picture: Aww...I wish I could write awesome again, but I can't. It's good, though. And the chorus is awesome!
Behind the Veil: Awesome
Surrender to Reason: Now I can't really remember it. Gotta give this one more time.
Along for the Ride: Aw...wait for it: ful! Yeah. Awful. Skip. Next please.
Illumination Theory: It's not 22 minutes of awesomeness, but it's realllllly good! The string section is a bit hit and miss for me, though. It's beautiful and all, but I don't think it fits the song all that much.

But what's up with that snare..? Why, Chycki? Or Mangini? Or whoever made that decision?

Verdict: 8/10 or something like that. Way to go DT! Me happy fan!   :biggrin:
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM by JLa »

Offline Ruba

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #309 on: September 23, 2013, 10:47:27 AM »
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...

7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet  ;)

I don't own a smart phone. Thanks a fucking lot DT  :\.

Offline Riitasointi

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #310 on: September 23, 2013, 10:58:34 AM »
Hello everyone I'm a newcomer here and would like to state my opinion on the new album as well!

First of all, I must admit that I'm only familiar with Images & Words, Scenes from a Memory, the song Six Degrees, some songs of TOT, Octavarium and the three latest records. I really really enjoyed ADTOE and would probably rank it to third place just following the obvious I&W and SFAM. I expected a lot from this record.

After about twelve listens I can say this album is indeed very good. It's not on the same level as ADTOE for me but is still very enjoyable. I'd say this album puts it's trust more on the songwriting, melody and atmosphere than instrumental wankery (for lack of a better word) like some DT albums do.

Some highlights from the album as for now:
- "Circus" part by Jordan in The Enemy Inside
- Looking Glass Petrucci solo and chorus
- Whole atmosphere of The Bigger Picture
- Intro and chorus of Behind The Veil
- Petrucci guitar melody in Surrender To Reason
- Basically all of Illumination Theory until the final part... I expected a climax like Razord's Edge but it's not really working for me

Offline AngelBack

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #311 on: September 23, 2013, 11:07:01 AM »
Hello everyone I'm a newcomer here and would like to state my opinion on the new album as well!

First of all, I must admit that I'm only familiar with Images & Words, Scenes from a Memory, the song Six Degrees, some songs of TOT, Octavarium and the three latest records. I really really enjoyed ADTOE and would probably rank it to third place just following the obvious I&W and SFAM. I expected a lot from this record.

After about twelve listens I can say this album is indeed very good. It's not on the same level as ADTOE for me but is still very enjoyable. I'd say this album puts it's trust more on the songwriting, melody and atmosphere than instrumental wankery (for lack of a better word) like some DT albums do.

Some highlights from the album as for now:
- "Circus" part by Jordan in The Enemy Inside
- Looking Glass Petrucci solo and chorus
- Whole atmosphere of The Bigger Picture
- Intro and chorus of Behind The Veil
- Petrucci guitar melody in Surrender To Reason
- Basically all of Illumination Theory until the final part... I expected a climax like Razord's Edge but it's not really working for me

Welcome to the forum, you joined at a great time.  Don't be disappointed that the climax of IT is not up to the climax of Razor's Edge.  I don't expect any song will EVER have a greater ending than that song. 
But the arc of your life will still be profound

Offline jammindude

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #312 on: September 23, 2013, 11:25:48 AM »
THE JAMMIN DUDE SHOW new episode focusing on the new Dream Theater album is up.    So you can hear all my thoughts on the new album.

Hope you all enjoy!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Lowdz

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #313 on: September 23, 2013, 12:30:07 PM »
After listening to this album 3 times, I am honestly floored, this album is simply insane.  I voted instant classic, because this has potential to be top 3 DT, perhaps even higher.  I was so disappointed with ADTOE, but DT12 is so much better than it in every single aspect.  I actually can't believe how good this is.  I'm also pleased with how heavy this is, it has so much balls and the riffs are probably the best the band have ever done.

Behind the Veil is simply one of the greatest songs they have ever done and IT is unbelievable really.  DT knocked this out of the fucking park.

Saved me having to type anything. I love this band  :heart

Also on Face book JP is pictured at HDTracks. Looks interesting. Wonder what they may have had to talk about. Sorry if its been posted before.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=630415793677103&set=a.133462500039104.42405.126844294034258&type=1&theater

Offline AngelBack

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Re: What are your thoughts on DT12?
« Reply #314 on: September 23, 2013, 12:36:36 PM »
THE JAMMIN DUDE SHOW new episode focusing on the new Dream Theater album is up.    So you can hear all my thoughts on the new album.

Hope you all enjoy!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U

Thanks JD, enjoyed the show.  "Did I tell you that I cried"?  ;D
But the arc of your life will still be profound