DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[crystalstars17]

I think we all just want to focus on the new era that's coming! 

Yes. Despite my initial (ok, months-long ) reaction to MM's departure, I am still looking forward.

[Sycsa]

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

To be frank though, given DT's core demographic + that internet forums are largely a thing of the past, it'd be a wonder if DTF were a place that needed heavy moderation. Middle-aged nerds can usually behave.

[Setlist Scotty]

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

To be frank though, given DT's core demographic + that internet forums are largely a thing of the past, it'd be a wonder if DTF were a place that needed heavy moderation. Middle-aged nerds can usually behave.

Oh yeah?!?!? Let me tell you something Sycsa....

 » Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 10:00:47 AM by Bosk «

[Sycsa]

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

To be frank though, given DT's core demographic + that internet forums are largely a thing of the past, it'd be a wonder if DTF were a place that needed heavy moderation. Middle-aged nerds can usually behave.

Oh yeah?!?!? Let me tell you something Sycsa....

 » Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 10:00:47 AM by Bosk «

Good one!
   

[bosk1]

This place is the gold standard, afaic. Much respect to Bosk and all the mods here.

To be frank though, given DT's core demographic + that internet forums are largely a thing of the past, it'd be a wonder if DTF were a place that needed heavy moderation. Middle-aged nerds can usually behave.

Oh yeah?!?!? Let me tell you something Sycsa....

 » Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 10:00:47 AM by Bosk «

[TAC]

So... we're over 6 months from the announcement of MP returning..

The new album is being completed, and their upcoming tour has a start date. I see people all kinds of excited over MP's return, with some fans coming back. As one who never left, I find it interesting. MP was one of my all time favorite musicians, and he really made me feel special as a DT fan.

Yet...I thought I'd be more excited.

I think the main reason is that my love for DT never really dropped, so I guess I don't have far to go in my rising fan levels. The bump for me isn't nearly as big as the bump for someone that bailed when he left, or since.


I can understand why people left and the criticisms.. to me they are largely..

1. MP was a huge draw, keeping DT relevant through social media and engagement, and DT seemed to not keep that up in his absence.
2. MP's perceived influence on the music. I mean, he told you about each albums construction in his Drumming video commentaries. We've never gotten anything like that, though I did like the View behind the scenes thing.MP seemed that he was pulling the curtain back while without him, DT felt more..private.
3. Drumming does matter. Some people couldn't really get into MM's style..and that's legit. I believe it.
4. MP said how he wanted to make each show special with rotating setlists, impromptu jams, etc.. These went away and some people didn't agree with DT's live offerings without him.


On the flip side, for me personally..
1. The music didn't suffer to my ears. Each album was really interesting and quite different than the other.
2. I felt that View was one of their all time best albums, so why not keep going with that lineup.
3. They didn't rotate setlists, but from tour to tour, the setlist were very well put together and fairly career encompassing.
4. I loved Mike Mangini. Yeah, that sounds stupid, but our favorite bands are our favorite bands because there's some sense that you might feel like you personally "like" the guys.




Just some rambling I guess..

[WilliamMunny]

So... we're over 6 months from the announcement of MP returning..

The new album is being completed, and their upcoming tour has a start date. I see people all kinds of excited over MP's return, with some fans coming back. As one who never left, I find it interesting. MP was one of my all time favorite musicians, and he really made me feel special as a DT fan.

Yet...I thought I'd be more excited.

I think the main reason is that my love for DT never really dropped, so I guess I don't have far to go in my rising fan levels. The bump for me isn't nearly as big as the bump for someone that bailed when he left, or since.


I can understand why people left and the criticisms.. to me they are largely..

1. MP was a huge draw, keeping DT relevant through social media and engagement, and DT seemed to not keep that up in his absence.
2. MP's perceived influence on the music. I mean, he told you about each albums construction in his Drumming video commentaries. We've never gotten anything like that, though I did like the View behind the scenes thing.MP seemed that he was pulling the curtain back while without him, DT felt more..private.
3. Drumming does matter. Some people couldn't really get into MM's style..and that's legit. I believe it.
4. MP said how he wanted to make each show special with rotating setlists, impromptu jams, etc.. These went away and some people didn't agree with DT's live offerings without him.


On the flip side, for me personally..
1. The music didn't suffer to my ears. Each album was really interesting and quite different than the other.
2. I felt that View was one of their all time best albums, so why not keep going with that lineup.
3. They didn't rotate setlists, but from tour to tour, the setlist were very well put together and fairly career encompassing.
4. I loved Mike Mangini. Yeah, that sounds stupid, but our favorite bands are our favorite bands because there's some sense that you might feel like you personally "like" the guys.




Just some rambling I guess..

In general, I agree with your take of "Yet...I thought I'd be more excited."

Honestly, I thought I would as well.

I think, when the single actually drops, I will feel a surge of 'Yes!'...unless, of course, it's a dud a la "Rite of Passage"

[ReaperKK]

I'm a little more excited to hear the new album than I would be if MM was still in the band, but honestly (and I'd love to be wrong) it's just going to sound like a modern DT record with a better drum mix. I think fans who think it's going to be a substantial change to how they write and songs the output are going to be disappointed (again I'd love to be wrong here)

[Azyiu]

On the flip side, for me personally..
1. The music didn't suffer to my ears. Each album was really interesting and quite different than the other.
2. I felt that View was one of their all time best albums, so why not keep going with that lineup.

I am cool with everything else, but I respectfully disagree with you on these 2 points.

[nikatapi]

I'm a little more excited to hear the new album than I would be if MM was still in the band, but honestly (and I'd love to be wrong) it's just going to sound like a modern DT record with a better drum mix. I think fans who think it's going to be a substantial change to how they write and songs the output are going to be disappointed (again I'd love to be wrong here)

Agreed on this. Remains to be seen in terms of creative decisions where this album will go.
Controversial opinion maybe, but i think JP has become a bit predictable in his writing in the past few years, with riffs and melodic ideas sounding similar. I felt the same with his solo album, as well as the latest LTE (even though i liked both).

But the element of surprise has been long gone for me, ever since The Astonishing.
Nevertheless, i expect at least a good album from the guys, and i'm fine with that at this stage of their career.

[gzarruk]

That's a great post, TAC!

[pg1067]

I think the main reason is that my love for DT never really dropped, so I guess I don't have far to go in my rising fan levels.

Like you, I didn't leave, but the last three albums have been pretty meh (TA - 15; DOT - 11; View - 13).  It has nothing to do with who the drummer is, though.

I'm a little more excited to hear the new album than I would be if MM was still in the band, but honestly (and I'd love to be wrong) it's just going to sound like a modern DT record with a better drum mix. I think fans who think it's going to be a substantial change to how they write and songs the output are going to be disappointed (again I'd love to be wrong here)

The highlighted is me also.  However, again, it really has nothing to do with who the drummer is.  What I'm hopeful is that the presence of "new blood" (even though it's old new blood) will re-energize the band.  At the time MP left, their two most recent albums (SC and BC&SL) were two of my bottom three DT albums.  ADTOE was a big improvement, and DT12 was even better.

I've written many times that all of the fan engagement stuff that so many love about MP just didn't matter to me.  For me, the most important things about MP were his enthusiasm and work as an arranger.  That was lacking on SC and BC&SL, but I hope it returned for DT16 (although the speed with which the album was written and recorded is a bit of a yellow flag, but we'll see).

[HOF]

I'm more curious than excited. I've been out on new DT since before MP left, but this feels like this has the potential to rejuvenate the band, and maybe they'll rediscovery some of the magic that initially made them special for me. LTE3 at least recaptured enough of the spirt of what made that project exciting for me that I'm optimistic that DT might get back there as well. But I won't be surprised if the new album doesn't move me either.

[Orbert]

I'm pretty much the same.  For me, both JP and DT in general have gotten a bit stale of late, so I'm hoping that MP's return shakes things up a bit, either with the arrangements themselves, off-the-wall ideas, or whatever it was that he brought to the table.  JR continues to push things a bit, but he always seems more interested in new tech and new sounds than actually making better music because of his access to new tech and new sounds.  Perhaps MP will have something of a "calming effect" on JR?

The MM era was not a total failure or anything, but I'm a little more excited about the upcoming album than I've been for any new DT in a long time.

[Mosh]

I never left but feel like the last three albums were very stale and it just felt like the Mangini lineup never really got off the ground. I thought ADTOE/DT12 were excellent, I understand they were doing something daring with The Astonishing but it was such a U Turn for the band and so unlike the previous album or the following albums that it felt more like a musical detour than anything else. And then D/T and View just felt very generic DT to me (although both have their moments). So for whatever reason I don't really feel like that lineup ever hit its stride in the studio, although the live shows were generally excellent. Also nothing wrong with Mangini, I think his drumming actually brought a lot to the table and influenced some really interesting rhythmic stuff on the last couple albums.

Within the realm of reason, I know JP and JR are still the primary writers and are going to drive the bus creatively. But even during the Mangini era, I wondered if having an outside creative voice would get them to shake things up a bit. Maybe Portnoy will be that outside voice and at least get them thinking more conceptually again, as the last two albums just felt like a collection of unrelated songs. Dream Theater albums have always had a cinematic scope to them and I would like them to get into that a little bit more again.

I also think the last two DT albums have had some serious arrangement problems compared to previous DT albums (even compared to The Astonishing/DT12/ADTOE). For one thing, I felt like the vocal parts and lyrics were very weak. Just not a lot of melodic ideas to grab on to and it felt like JLB was fighting against the band at times. As others have mentioned, JP's riffing was feeling same-y on some songs and some of the songs felt like they didn't really go anywhere. So those are areas where I think MP's arrangement skills and his ability to think more about the big picture will create some cool ideas. I don't think the recent albums are terrible, but some slight adjustments, more focused creative directions, and maybe just being more excited about the process and less "another day in the office" about it will go a long way. 16 albums is a lot and I can appreciate that it gets more and more difficult to reinvent the wheel with each album. I'm not expecting the band to pull out a masterpiece at this stage in their career, but I do think they're capable of delivering on a level that they haven't in awhile.

[emtee]

I'm excited.

Never left but from ADToE thru The Astonishing I feel like they really struggled from a sonic/production standpoint in the studio. Their last 2 were stellar though. I don't think that would have happened with MP in the band.

From a live perspective, they were definitely missing MP in my opinion. Bottom line for me is that they are a better band with MP.

[Schurftkut]

i'm hoping for less chugchugchug verses please!!

[nobloodyname]

For me, the most important things about MP were his enthusiasm and work as an arranger.

Agreed. Although I wonder how much the fact he's apparently not producing the album might have affected some of that? Possibly not at all.

[Kocak]

i'm hoping for less chugchugchug verses please!!

+1 for this.

I wish they'd do a James-centric album, compose the entire thing around vocals and not the instrumental bits.

[pg1067]

For me, the most important things about MP were his enthusiasm and work as an arranger.

Agreed. Although I wonder how much the fact he's apparently not producing the album might have affected some of that? Possibly not at all.

Hard to say, but producing and arranging are very different things.

[Orbert]

They can be, but they can also be interrelated.  A producer's job is to get the most out of the band, to get the best album possible, and that can take the form of being more "hands-on" and directly affecting the arrangements of the songs.  Producers often end up with writing credits because of how much they've influenced the final product.

[Dream Team]

I'm excited.

Never left but from ADToE thru The Astonishing I feel like they really struggled from a sonic/production standpoint in the studio. Their last 2 were stellar though. I don't think that would have happened with MP in the band.

From a live perspective, they were definitely missing MP in my opinion. Bottom line for me is that they are a better band with MP.

Yes, ironically the 3 albums with my least favorite rhythm guitar tone are 3 of the ones JP produced by himself.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm excited.

Never left but from ADToE thru The Astonishing I feel like they really struggled from a sonic/production standpoint in the studio. Their last 2 were stellar though. I don't think that would have happened with MP in the band.

From a live perspective, they were definitely missing MP in my opinion. Bottom line for me is that they are a better band with MP.

The controversial production never would have happened with MP in the band but the same is true about many great things that occurred in the last 13 years.

[ReaperKK]

I'm pretty much the same.  For me, both JP and DT in general have gotten a bit stale of late, so I'm hoping that MP's return shakes things up a bit, either with the arrangements themselves, off-the-wall ideas, or whatever it was that he brought to the table.  JR continues to push things a bit, but he always seems more interested in new tech and new sounds than actually making better music because of his access to new tech and new sounds.  Perhaps MP will have something of a "calming effect" on JR?

The MM era was not a total failure or anything, but I'm a little more excited about the upcoming album than I've been for any new DT in a long time.

See I disagree, I think JR is probably the writer who I think has developed the least. He changes his patches and tone frequently but I found that his playing has gotten pretty stale from BC onwards. I really miss the JR from Met Pt. 2, or those amazing keyboard sounds he had during SDOIT.

[Orbert]

Reaper, it doesn't sound like you disagree with me at all.  When I said he's pushing things, I meant in terms of exploring the new tech, not musically.  I think it's important to explore new tech, but having cool gear doesn't mean anything if you still play the same wanky, goofy shit you've been playing the last 20 years.

[Zydar]

I'm actually very excited and curious about the upcoming album. My DT interest waned a bit with each MM album (definitely not because of him though), and it took a nosedive with TA. They got me back a little with DoT and View, although all the MM era albums are good but not great IMHO. Now, I don't have any lofty expectations that they will return to the highs of SFAM or Six Degrees with this new album, but still I'm excited about what they will do with MP back and what influence he will have on the writing again.

[Jamesman42]

Sdoit JR is the best JR, though his whole run from Sdoit through 8VM is excellent.

I'm very excited for this album. I have a hard time retroactively getting into the last 3 albums overall, I think getting MP back will be a good injection of fun the band needed.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I feel a similar sentiment as most of you. For reference, here is my DT album ranking

Metropolis, Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Images And Words
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
Systematic Chaos
Falling Into Infinity
Octavarium
Train Of Thought
A View From The Top Of The World
Distance Over Time
A Dramatic Turn Of Events
Awake
Dream Theater
When Dream And Day Unite
The Astonishing

[Stadler]

I'm not professing to be any ear-genius, and I generally am not the guy that says "the production blows!".  Other than blatant brickwalling (Vapor Trails, Death Magnetic) I generally am "Meh" when someone says the sound is horrible. I am one of those that doesn't care about triggered snares, for example.

I personally think the recent NMB albums sound AMAZING, with some real space between the instruments. I'd love to hear something more like that.   It's just been a bit... dense lately, and while I've always said "I want to hear what they give me", if I had ONE request, it would be to make a record more like Zeppelin, where there wasn't quite so much overlap of the various frequencies.

[Max Kuehnau]

the LZ-esque approach is what they used for Distance Over Time in some aspects (and it worked for that album IMHO), very roomy sounding (which they were known for doing on LZ4 particularly, but also onwards)