Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Laughingplace56]

Hello people. My first post on a pretty tough topic, but here we go!

-ADTOE is the worst album they ever created(though Outcry and BAI are great, showing the real spirit of the album)
-I love the era starting from ToT to ADTOE
-FII demos are WAY better than the final product
-TEI can easily be among the best 10 songs
-TSF is the best 12SS song, way more complex and meaningful than TGP
-I&W is somehow overrated, I personally enjoy Awake more than it
-The Dance of Eternity is the second best song, after 8VM
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the third after those
-Another Hand/Killing Hand LATM is JLB's best performance he has ever done
-Derek Sherinian could be DT's best ever keyboardist if FII came out as it was in the demos, though I don't really like the guy
-Jordan never overdoes the previous songs on live performances

There you go, enjoy ^^

- Top 6 or 7 album for me.
- I don't hate BC&SL and I enjoy SC. 8VM is very good and ToT is a top 5 album.
- I haven't finished posting my top 50 so won't comment on whether or not that song is even in my top 50.
- See ^
- I&W is slightly overrated. It's not their best, but still excellent. Awake>I&W.
- See 2^
- See 3^
- Haven't heard it in a while so I don't remember 
- Disagree wholeheartedly, and he seems like he could be a douche.
- I agree.

[theseoafs]

ITNOG is probably my least favorite DT song.

It's not my least favorite DT song (You Not Me and Burning My Soul are unquestionably much, much worse) but I agree with you that there's not much that's good about it at all.  Everything about the song is just incredibly boring to me.  Shame, since the rest of the album is damn good.

[rumborak]

To connect with PC's earlier post, I think the "Dream Theater songwriting machine" is sadly back to its usual grind. I have many years before stated the hypothesis that DT were at their best when they had something to prove. IAW, SFAM, ADTOE were all albums made at a time when a lot of people questioned the future of the band. So, they took chances, usually with positive results. But with DT12 that old complacency has crept back in, the one of BCSL and SC, where everything just blended into this blur.

[BlobVanDam]

To connect with PC's earlier post, I think the "Dream Theater songwriting machine" is sadly back to its usual grind. I have many years before stated the hypothesis that DT were at their best when they had something to prove. IAW, SFAM, ADTOE were all albums made at a time when a lot of people questioned the future of the band. So, they took chances, usually with positive results. But with DT12 that old complacency has crept back in, the one of BCSL and SC, where everything just blended into this blur.

I wouldn't exactly say they took chances on ADTOE. I think it's actually their safest album, like they were trying to prove they would sound exactly like DT. DT12 isn't ground breaking, but I still find it noticeably more adventurous than ADTOE. Actually, I think the albums directly after all of the ones you've mentioned took more chances musically, or at least as many.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I agree with that, though I enjoy ADTOE more than DT12.

[rumborak]

I think the adventurousness of DT12 holds really only for the obvious parts, like the orchestral section in IT, and a few others. But outside of that DT12 is super-safe.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Oh yeah, it's safe, I just think ADTOE was safer.

[BlobVanDam]

I think the adventurousness of DT12 holds really only for the obvious parts, like the orchestral section in IT, and a few others. But outside of that DT12 is super-safe.

As I said, it's still not ground breaking stuff, but relatively speaking, I think it clearly takes more chances than ADTOE. I'm not sure ADTOE had any such parts that make me think they set out to push the envelope, whereas DT12 has those few moments where they seemed to be trying something new.
I'd say ADTOE is super safe, and DT12 is moderately safe.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Well, BMUBMD was a bit different, I suppose.

[rumborak]

Same here, I enjoy ADTOE far more then DT12.
Maybe it's not the adventurousness, but simply that when they know they have something to prove, they take greater care when writing/producing, craft it a bit more.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, BMUBMD was a bit different, I suppose.

A little bit, but not even as much as previous albums. It still felt like the obligatory straightforward metal song.

Same here, I enjoy ADTOE far more then DT12.
Maybe it's not the adventurousness, but simply that when they know they have something to prove, they take greater care when writing/producing, craft it a bit more.

I don't think it's anything conscious like that, I think if anything it's just the result of a new dynamic created by the circumstances of a different lineup.

[GasparXR]

I think technically DT12 still had things to prove, like whether is was worth self-titling, as well as whether the writing chemistry with MM in the mix is strong. I personally think it couldn't have proved either point any better than it has.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I still don't like self-titling. I like album titles, dadgummit!

[rumborak]

Well, BMUBMD was a bit different, I suppose.

A little bit, but not even as much as previous albums. It still felt like the obligatory straightforward metal song.

Which for me The Enemy Inside is. I think it would be exceedingly ironic if DT got the Grammy for such a, sorry, dull song.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Wouldn't be anything new, eh?

Actually, I have no idea what songs have won grammys in the past.

[BlobVanDam]

Sorry rumby, I mixed up my quoting/editing there, so that messed with your quoting. I think TEI is their best single in a while. It successfully does what it set out to do. My only issue is the mix detracting a bit from the song. I found it much more surprising that OTBOA of all songs got the Grammy nomination, as I felt that song was very dull.

[Lucidity]

I think that DT12 might be safer than ADToE, not because they decided to create music that sounds typically Dream Theater, but because they were more concerned with poppy hooks and more conventional songwriting rather than the proggy aspect. They were trying something different, I'll give them that much, but I think it could be considered safer from a commercial perspective.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Well, you could say that, but prog is what's "safe" for DT, since that's what their fan base likes, for the most part.

[GasparXR]

I think that DT12 might be safer than ADToE, not because they decided to create music that sounds typically Dream Theater, but because they were more concerned with poppy hooks and more conventional songwriting rather than the proggy aspect. They were trying something different, I'll give them that much, but I think it could be considered safer from a commercial perspective.

I see your point. Although, from a commercial perspective, in another way is actually not as safe, because despite the attentive detail to hooks and more conventional songwriting, the less conventional stuff is still very, very present, especially when it comes to the shorter, more concise songs. The Looking Glass, for example, although it's concise and very catchy, has some odd time shifts in the verses, and the second verse is separated by a small instrumental passage (which is different than the first verse), and the second half of the second verse takes an unexpected change into 80s metal territory.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, you could say that, but prog is what's "safe" for DT, since that's what their fan base likes, for the most part.

I agree. If DT wrote an actual pop album, that wouldn't be considered safe for them, because it would be a departure from their signature sound that their fanbase wants, and would be risky. It's all relative to their core sound, rather than a comparison to mainstream music.

[Crow]

Not really an opinion but I don't plan on listening to any single song off DT12 this year or any coming year. I think the album may be the one that least justifies listens out of the entire DT catalog, including WDADU.
Also the first three songs off ADToE is the weakest album start I can think of. Past that point the album is great but the first three tracks are either OtBoA's brand of existing or just /absolutely terrible/.

[theseoafs]

Not really an opinion but I don't plan on listening to any single song off DT12 this year or any coming year. I think the album may be the one that least justifies listens out of the entire DT catalog, including WDADU.

lol

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Not really an opinion but I don't plan on listening to any single song off DT12 this year or any coming year. I think the album may be the one that least justifies listens out of the entire DT catalog, including WDADU.
Also the first three songs off ADToE is the weakest album start I can think of. Past that point the album is great but the first three tracks are either OtBoA's brand of existing or just /absolutely terrible/.

I haven't listened to DT12 a whole lot, but I imagine I'll still spin it from time to time. After all, I disliked ADTOE when I first heard it, and I really like it now.

I mean, it's your choice and all, but that seems a bit extreme.

[rumborak]

My new controversial opinion: SDV should have stayed on the "never been played live" list. I don't think DT can do the song justice; frankly, I don't think they understand it.

[theseoafs]

Hey, you know that it's a Dream Theater song, right?

[?]

Same here, I enjoy ADTOE far more then DT12.
Maybe it's not the adventurousness, but simply that when they know they have something to prove, they take greater care when writing/producing, craft it a bit more.

[adastra]

I luv this Topic    I'm gonna blast some of my "controversial"  opinions!  Here we go!

-    JLB and Petrucci should ditch the facial hair...  JLB Looks too serious and Petrucci looks like a roadkill ... haha   Don't take it too seriously. They're both so handsome without the beards :3
-    I dont understand the hate towards You Not Me... I think it is pretty good and groovy song!
-    I think that during Octavarium-era   Dream Theater was on the peak of their musical career!  Not salewise, but musically.  After that it has been more or less downhill
-    Everything on FII is solid Gold  Perfect songs, perfect mixing, perfect producing, perfect perfect,  Perfect album.
-    Derek Sherinian was the best thing that happened to DT!

 

[TheGreatPretender]

I luv this Topic    I'm gonna blast some of my "controversial"  opinions!  Here we go!

-    JLB and Petrucci should ditch the facial hair...  JLB Looks too serious and Petrucci looks like a roadkill ... haha   Don't take it too seriously. They're both so handsome without the beards :3

It's been a VERY long time since either one of them went without facial hair. I'm wondering if they'd look good without it at their current ages.

[adastra]

I luv this Topic    I'm gonna blast some of my "controversial"  opinions!  Here we go!

-    JLB and Petrucci should ditch the facial hair...  JLB Looks too serious and Petrucci looks like a roadkill ... haha   Don't take it too seriously. They're both so handsome without the beards :3

It's been a VERY long time since either one of them went without facial hair. I'm wondering if they'd look good without it at their current ages.

NO problem there, I'm more into mature

[Prog Snob]

Same here, I enjoy ADTOE far more then DT12.
Maybe it's not the adventurousness, but simply that when they know they have something to prove, they take greater care when writing/producing, craft it a bit more.

Yeah, same here.  ADTOE was the best thing they did since 6DOIT.  DT12 is the best thing they did since....ADTOE.   

DT12 is good and all but consciously trying to keep songs at a certain length and keep the album at a certain length is a restriction in my opinion.  Just fucking write.  If you have two CDs worth of great music, then put it out.  We won't complain. We promise.  Well - not all of us. 

[puppyonacid]

I agree on the notion that we're not really talking about being daring or adventurous. In that sense I'm not sure where there is left for DT to go that wouldn't alienate significant sections of their fan base - old and new. I think what we're talking about is how inspired the songs sound.

I prefer ADTOE on the whole than DT12. The songs just sound a bit more Dream Theatery to me.

I'd love to see them go back to writing on the road a bit more - showcasing new songs towards the end of tours that may or may not surface on the next album. That'd be difficult though in this allthingsgetvideoedandthrownonYouTube era I guess.

I don't think DT has a formula that works any better than any other would for them. Them writing in the studio and throwing everything they recorded on an album started with SFaM - arguably one of their strongest albums.

For me I think what keeps DT fresh is mixing it up - not so much an over haul in the musical direction but more a change in how they approach the writing process. I'd love them to take a bit longer with the writing for the next album and actually have say 8 or 9 songs that they know and are ready to record before they hit the record button.

[aprilethereal]

I still don't get the hate for DT12. As much as I like ADTOE, DT12 is far more adventurous (there's not really any DT album that sounds like it). Apart from the unnecessary ambient break in IT, I think it's phenomenal all the way through and easily one of their best albums ever.

[jakepriest]

I still don't get the hate for DT12. As much as I like ADTOE, DT12 is far more adventurous (there's not really any DT album that sounds like it). Apart from the unnecessary ambient break in IT, I think it's phenomenal all the way through and easily one of their best albums ever.

I don't like DT12 because most of the songs I find bad or outright boring.

[adastra]

I still don't get the hate for DT12. As much as I like ADTOE, DT12 is far more adventurous (there's not really any DT album that sounds like it). Apart from the unnecessary ambient break in IT, I think it's phenomenal all the way through and easily one of their best albums ever.

I don't like DT12 because most of the songs I find bad or outright boring.

I don't find them bad,  but I also find them kinda boring! 
But I guess my biggest problem is that i dont really like how the album sounds. IMO the drums sound like shit.

[jakepriest]

I still don't get the hate for DT12. As much as I like ADTOE, DT12 is far more adventurous (there's not really any DT album that sounds like it). Apart from the unnecessary ambient break in IT, I think it's phenomenal all the way through and easily one of their best albums ever.

I don't like DT12 because most of the songs I find bad or outright boring.

I don't find them bad,  but I also find them kinda boring! 
But I guess my biggest problem is that i dont really like how the album sounds. IMO the drums sound like shit.

The entire mix sounds like shit. Drums sound plastic and cymbals are thin, guitars are too loud and the tone is weird, keyboards are too low and I really dislike the bass tone, even if it is louder. Did I mention the awful vocal effects?