Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Lucien]

You're opinions are indeed crazy, but so are mine so welcome to the club, bro.

Cheers.................and yes , I will relax. I just expected to last longer than 5 posts without being called fucking crazy - give me 6 or 7 at least   


DT are certainly a polarising band.   When I first checked out The Enemy Inside on Youtube ( a track I love and which every DT fan I know loves)I couldn't believe all the bile and abuse being thrown around on the Youtube comments etc....

In the end I'd be quite happy (from the output to date) to just live with I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12 most of the time ............the rest , aside from my 1-2 faves from each,  get very little airplay even though I rate WDADU , FII and BC&SL quite highly.   Images and Words is for me THE ultimate album by any band outside of Van Halen I (I rate both at 100%) but once you lose too much of what made that album so brilliant my attention wanes quite a bit.   I feel they have recaptured that on the last 2 albums.

Anyhow..........feels good to be back "on board" with the band after the last couple of releases and really anticipating/enjoying new material again - and not just the odd track. 

Well, you shouldn't. Besides, all is fun and loving on DTF.

[Outcrier]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

The difference is that these bands aren't overrated, isn't crazy saying that them belongs in the "greatest bands ever club".

[BlobVanDam]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

The difference is that these bands aren't overrated.

I'd disagree on all three.

And I don't see how DT fans overrate DT. Sure, you get the few hardcore fans who think they can do no wrong, but that exists in any fanbase. Overall, DTF is evidence of a balanced fanbase.

[Outcrier]

And I don't see how DT fans overrate DT.

I was more joking about it because of that "DT standards thing" 

I'd disagree on all three.

Don't mind, is more of a personal opinion, just think the consistency of these bands are on a whole another level.

[Crow]

- the best DT albums by some way are the bookends (WDADU,I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12)..and by implication......
- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums
- Octavarium and SFAM are over rated.
- the only song off SFAM I listen to regularly is Fatal Tragedy
- BC&SL is better than the 3 or 4 albums that preceded it
- 6.00 is the weakest track on Awake and Bridges In The Sky is the weakest on ADTOE (although I still do rate BIIS...6.00 I could live without)

First: Not really, the two bookends are among the worst
Second: Nooooo
Third: Noooooooooooo
Fourth: 8VM is underrated as an album actually, also nooooooooooooooooo
Fifth: Misssing out then man
Sixth: BC&SL is the worst them actually
Seventh: Both are horribly wrong, high-ranking tracks on each album IMO

tl;dr your opinions are bad according to my opinions but to each their own, I seriously want you to justify some of these though
ARE YOU JUSTIFIED

[Crow]

also DT as a band is above average, they have a lot more good stuff than bad stuff and considering they're almost 25 years out from their first album now it's impressive that their recent stuff can still be good
but they have done wrong
they have done lots of wrong in the past two albums especially, thouh adtoe is a middling album since it's got both trash and treasure on it

[Outcrier]

I like BITS, i think it's the only long song on ADTOE that hasn't a section that feels forced (despite the intro) and the chorus is great.

[Ruba]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't like it that much either, but no way it's worse than the Portnoy-core.

Oh boy, another anti-MP term to add to the DTF vocabulary. Just what we needed.

I'm pretty sure someone said that before me. And the section itself isn't bad, the vocals are.

E: Here it is:

BC&SL is their weakest album with the least amount of replay-ability for me. Aside from The Count of Tuscany, every song felt lacking (while all containing some great elements). What hurts even more, is that A Nightmare to Remember could have been a DT classic, but was horribly blemished by the infamous Portnoy-core section.

[TheGreatPretender]

also DT as a band is above average, they have a lot more good stuff than bad stuff and considering they're almost 25 years out from their first album now it's impressive that their recent stuff can still be good
but they have done wrong
they have done lots of wrong in the past two albums especially, thouh adtoe is a middling album since it's got both trash and treasure on it

First of all, that opinion about ADTOE is entirely subjective. And second, can you think of a single band in history that existed for over 25 years and hadn't had a at least a 'middling' album, if not total failures? Because again, music is a matter of taste and opinion, but I'm sure there's not a single band out there that has 30 years (or 12) of 100% critically acclaimed albums.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm obviously not a fanboy who thinks every DT album is gold, but for me personally, DT have the highest hit rate of any band that has been going near that long.
I'm not into the silly idea that "DT's worst is still better than other bands", but their average is pretty darn good.

[?]

- WDADU is top 5

[wolfking]

You're opinions are indeed crazy, but so are mine so welcome to the club, bro.

Cheers.................and yes , I will relax. I just expected to last longer than 5 posts without being called fucking crazy - give me 6 or 7 at least   


DT are certainly a polarising band.   When I first checked out The Enemy Inside on Youtube ( a track I love and which every DT fan I know loves)I couldn't believe all the bile and abuse being thrown around on the Youtube comments etc....

In the end I'd be quite happy (from the output to date) to just live with I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12 most of the time ............the rest , aside from my 1-2 faves from each,  get very little airplay even though I rate WDADU , FII and BC&SL quite highly.   Images and Words is for me THE ultimate album by any band outside of Van Halen I (I rate both at 100%) but once you lose too much of what made that album so brilliant my attention wanes quite a bit.   I feel they have recaptured that on the last 2 albums.

Anyhow..........feels good to be back "on board" with the band after the last couple of releases and really anticipating/enjoying new material again - and not just the odd track.

There's that 'opinion' word again.

[wolfking]

Here's my contribution to the thread;

ADTOE is DT's weakest album.

[TheGreatPretender]

There's that 'opinion' word again.

Opinions are one thing, but there's a difference between constructive criticism, and plain flaming and harshness. Something that's unfortunately a bit of an epidemic what with the anonymity of the internet and everything.

[425]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

The difference is that these bands aren't overrated, isn't crazy saying that them belongs in the "greatest bands ever club".

Woah, hold on, I'm calling you on this. You seem to be saying that it would be crazy for someone to say that Dream Theater belongs in the "greatest bands ever club." Why? Is it because they're younger? Have a smaller fanbase?

In my personal opinion, Dream Theater is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, band of all time. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with me. I'm not saying you have to agree, but seriously, you're saying that it's "crazy" to even state such an opinion?

To me, the greatness of a band has nothing to do with its popularity or how "classic" it is and everything to do with the quality of the music. In my judgement, DT has a discography of 9 or 10 great albums and 2-3 good albums. I like their music more than that of any of those three bands, and it's not even close. Again, not saying you're wrong to disagree, but I am asking why the fact that I think this makes me "crazy."

[bl5150]

Welcome to Club Farken Crazy 425 

, I seriously want you to justify some of these though
ARE YOU JUSTIFIED

Look .............I don't take any offence at any of this really but , having been a long time member/moderator of many music forums , I don't dig the whole idea of newbs and/or those with a very different opinion needing to justify it to those who make up the consensus to get any sort of respect.  To paraphrase Voltaire (Hall actually) with some editing " "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it ...........and to do so without justification" 

My favourite couple of bands ever are Van Halen and Dream Theater , closely followed by a whole load of others including Queensryche , Conception, Symphony X , Talisman , Ozzy, Trail of Murder, Crimson glory and plenty more AOR/ melodic rock/metal type stuff.    I've been a long time member of various VH and melodic rock/metal forums - all of which I recently gave up on due to them fading away and/or having speed/navigation issues.

Some of the VH forums had similar type stuff...........Diver Down is the WDADU of the classic VH catalogue and if someone came on and said that was their fave VH album  then they could expect a pasting .  I would then have to get in amongst it and defend them (as a moderator) even though I would strongly disagree myself.  That's my view anyway - opinions need no more justification that you liking a particular style of car , girl/boy , food.........whatever and are no less valid than the consensus. 

Having said all that I'll try and see if I can fathom why my opinions are so different to most here - I haven't come here to stir up any shit and at least I was observant enough during my lurking to pick up on the fact that my opinions belonged in the controversial opinion thread     Having said that there were a couple of members in the "back to back" thread who rated I&W/Awake and ADTOE/DT12 as clearly their best so I don't feel totally alone on this.

If I look at my CD collection I'd class 85% of it as melodic rock/melodic metal and the rest a mix of blues/classic rock and so on......... that which would be classed as prog metal is all very melodic metal too.........once we get into prog for progs sake I switch off.  So I love prog metal but only within a very narrow range of material.   I&W is my top metal album of any kind but it has the ultimate formula for my very specific taste - it's progressive  with great musicianship and song writing but also extremely melodic /catchy. ...it never loses my attention.  I'll go as heavy as you like but if I stop tapping my foot/banging my head then I lose interest.

The real clue perhaps is the total absence of prog rock in my collection and I think perhaps that's the difference - I played guitar for 20 years in rock/metal bands (even a DT tribute) and studied theory formally etc..........even did Joe Satriani for my high school grad year exam performance at age 17.......but I generally find I have zero attraction to bands like Spocks beard, Marillion etc...........or extremely talented guitarists whose ability I totally respect but I struggle with when it comes to their songwriting (Guthrie etc...) . 

So Dream Theater grabbed my undivided attention on WDADU, I&W, Awake, and less so FII, BC&SL and struggled to elsewhere until the last two albums.   And quite seriously.....................it really bugs me that a band that I worship has produced a reasonable amount of material I actually dislike but there's not much I can do about it.   Van Halen never did that until the late 80's but it still happened.  And Queensryche (my 3rd fave ever) produced ever smellier piles of crap from Promised Land onwards (IMHO of course    ).................again it really saddened me but hey!

Anyhow..........don't know if there's anything in that but that's my impression.

I seriously would much rather listen to Afterlife , A Fortune In Lies or The Killing Hand than 90% of stuff off SDOIT Disc One, Octavarium, ToT, SC ......... I don't get your opinion either but it doesn't bother me to the point of needing you to justify it to me or call you fucking crazy .

Like I said............I've seen this all before elsewhere and it's water off a duck's back ........and I'll leave it at that .I've done my best to explain where I'm coming from in my Intro post and here and if that's insufficient then I can live with that .

Cheers

Brent

[Prog Snob]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

The difference is that these bands aren't overrated, isn't crazy saying that them belongs in the "greatest bands ever club".

LZ are overrated. Some of The Beatles catalog is overrated too.

[Sycsa]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

The difference is that these bands aren't overrated, isn't crazy saying that them belongs in the "greatest bands ever club".

Woah, hold on, I'm calling you on this. You seem to be saying that it would be crazy for someone to say that Dream Theater belongs in the "greatest bands ever club." Why? Is it because they're younger? Have a smaller fanbase?

In my personal opinion, Dream Theater is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, band of all time. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with me. I'm not saying you have to agree, but seriously, you're saying that it's "crazy" to even state such an opinion?

To me, the greatness of a band has nothing to do with its popularity or how "classic" it is and everything to do with the quality of the music. In my judgement, DT has a discography of 9 or 10 great albums and 2-3 good albums. I like their music more than that of any of those three bands, and it's not even close. Again, not saying you're wrong to disagree, but I am asking why the fact that I think this makes me "crazy."

Wholeheartedly agreed. Coming from a classic prog background (most of my favorite bands would run out of steam after 3-4 great albums), I am astonished by the quality and consistency DT can achieve this late in their career and the sheer quantity of excellent songs they've written. I mean, I cannot do a proper top 50 list, since I'd be leaving off too many songs I love. I can't think of another band that would put me in a place like that. All things considered, I am inclined to go with single greatest band of all time.

[Polarbear]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

[wolfking]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

I wouldn't say that this is that controvesial.

[KevShmev]

Along for the Ride, to me, is in the same boat as These Walls and The Answer Lies Within: songs that aren't bad by any means and are enjoyable enough in the context of their respective albums, but very little about any of them is particularly memorable or noteworthy.

[nikatapi]

Along for the Ride, to me, is in the same boat as These Walls and The Answer Lies Within: songs that aren't bad by any means and are enjoyable enough in the context of their respective albums, but very little about any of them is particularly memorable or noteworthy.

I have to disagree with you on this one. Not only i think These Walls is a great song, but i also think it is a great representation of all the good DT elements, JR has a great atmospheric tone, JP covers almost every aspect of his sound, from the clean sound to the heavy riff, MP does a great job with subtle intricacies that make his parts interesting, and James gives a very emotional performance.

I happen to think it is one of the best songs of the modern (aka after SFAM) era of DT, i really love it, but i respect your opinion.

[Outcrier]

Woah, hold on, I'm calling you on this. You seem to be saying that it would be crazy for someone to say that Dream Theater belongs in the "greatest bands ever club." Why? Is it because they're younger? Have a smaller fanbase?

In my personal opinion, Dream Theater is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, band of all time. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with me. I'm not saying you have to agree, but seriously, you're saying that it's "crazy" to even state such an opinion?

To me, the greatness of a band has nothing to do with its popularity or how "classic" it is and everything to do with the quality of the music. In my judgement, DT has a discography of 9 or 10 great albums and 2-3 good albums. I like their music more than that of any of those three bands, and it's not even close. Again, not saying you're wrong to disagree, but I am asking why the fact that I think this makes me "crazy."

Depends what is less silly, judging bands based on opinions or no...based on opinions, any band can be the best, even One Direction. I rather judge based on things like influency, consistency and many other things. Of course you can have your favorite bands, but they're being along the greatest only because it's one of your favorites it's another thing.

EDIT: Also, the greatest bands club thing, i'm talking something like TOP 50 or 100 bands, not 1000 or 2000.

[Zook]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

AFTR grew on me, but I didn't like it at all at first. It works better when listening to the full album. Also, Prophets of War exists so your argument is invalid.

[Jaffa]

I really like Prophets of War.

I dunno if I've mentioned that in this thread before, so there it is. 

[Onno]

Here's my contribution to the thread;

DT12 is DT's weakest album.

FTFM

[Prog Snob]

I really like Prophets of War.

I dunno if I've mentioned that in this thread before, so there it is.

PoW isn't THAT bad especially when you take into consideration that people like Never Enough.

[Crow]

onno onKNOWS what's up

[Zook]

Here's my contribution to the thread;

DT12 is DT's weakest album.

FTFM

onNO

[wolfking]

Along for the Ride, to me, is in the same boat as These Walls and The Answer Lies Within: songs that aren't bad by any means and are enjoyable enough in the context of their respective albums, but very little about any of them is particularly memorable or noteworthy.

These Walls would make my DT Top 10.

[GasparXR]

Woah, hold on, I'm calling you on this. You seem to be saying that it would be crazy for someone to say that Dream Theater belongs in the "greatest bands ever club." Why? Is it because they're younger? Have a smaller fanbase?

In my personal opinion, Dream Theater is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, band of all time. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with me. I'm not saying you have to agree, but seriously, you're saying that it's "crazy" to even state such an opinion?

To me, the greatness of a band has nothing to do with its popularity or how "classic" it is and everything to do with the quality of the music. In my judgement, DT has a discography of 9 or 10 great albums and 2-3 good albums. I like their music more than that of any of those three bands, and it's not even close. Again, not saying you're wrong to disagree, but I am asking why the fact that I think this makes me "crazy."

Depends what is less silly, judging bands based on opinions or no...based on opinions, any band can be the best, even One Direction. I rather judge based on things like influency, consistency and many other things. Of course you can have your favorite bands, but they're being along the greatest only because it's one of your favorites it's another thing.

EDIT: Also, the greatest bands club thing, i'm talking something like TOP 50 or 100 bands, not 1000 or 2000.

I don't see why "consistency" is any more or less valid than whether you like the band, because it still relates to whether you like their songs or not, and how many of them you like and don't like. I can see what you mean when it comes to influence -- bands like The Beatles and Led Zeppelin have influenced probably hundreds of millions of people, and in that respect, that's an accomplishment. However, I still don't personally think they're great because even though they have influenced many, they don't influence me. I don't see why one's opinion of something is silly if it is based solely on the person's tastes -- that's exactly what an opinion is!

[Jaffa]

I really like Prophets of War.

I dunno if I've mentioned that in this thread before, so there it is.

PoW isn't THAT bad especially when you take into consideration that people like Never Enough.

I like Never Enough as well.   

Though not as much as I used to. 

[Grizz]

Some woman out there seems to REALLY enjoy Never Enough.

[wolfking]

I never really cared for Never Enough, but it works okay when you are listening to the full album.

[Zook]

I never really cared for Never Enough, but it works okay when you are listening to the full album.

This, but I like it a lot more than I used to. It's not even the lyrics, but the way James sings the verses that puts me off.