Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[Herrick]

I can understand why some people no longer want to buy the album even if it turns out to be good. I think Sherinian's tweets are lame but they're not nearly bad enough to keep me from listening to his music and buying the stuff I like.

[Nick]

I think I realize why I semi-despise this thread so much. It was a foregone conclusion that I would buy this album and give it a chance. The first song would have to be bottom tier Adrenaline Mob bad in order for me to rethink that position. So with that said all the tweets, forum bickering, and other stuff is essentially meaningless to me at this point. As Rumborak said, please give us more music to talk about. I don't think things get much better till then.

[bosk1]

This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.

Another song would be nice.  But I am guessing we will not get one until a bit closer to release.  October 20th simultaneously seems close and far.

[The Walrus]

I haven't been on this forum long but, bosk, I greatly appreciate the way you talk (type?) to other users - with respect, and not nearly as much of an 'iron fist' type rule (magically disappearing posts included). I think you're being very fair.

I would like another song. I listened to Signs of the Time last night and it really didn't do much for me. I want something that will actually impress me, something with good, catchy melodies but enough 'balls and chunk' so to speak to keep things heavy. I'm thinking Soto might actually be the weak link for me - he's not bad, but I can't see him singing the type of vocal lines I gravitate towards. We'll see!

[SwedishGoose]

This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.

Another song would be nice.  But I am guessing we will not get one until a bit closer to release.  October 20th simultaneously seems close and far.

Well they said soon on facebook a long time ago so 😉

Oh... and totally agree on all Kattelox wrote. Both about Bosk and SOA

[dtvoices94]

I just want new music already. 

I've listen to the first song at least a dozen times and can't remember a thing about it.  That says more to me than any tweets ever will.  Maybe the Derek (great in DT and solo) and Mike (favorite drummer) combo caused unrealistic expectations on my part.

Look, I'm a KISS fan and Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Ace Frehley, and Peter Criss have said worse in print about each other than what may or may not be implied by Derek's tweets so none of this Twitter business will impact my decision to buy or not buy the album, although the next song may.

[Zook]

This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.

We have been getting new snippets. This album is actually just spoken word tweets telling us what they aren't.

[Madman Shepherd]

My take is that when MP spoke of insisting on total control over this new project, he meant more in terms of the non-musical stuff. As mikeyd23 just wrote, I think it's a similar situation to DT, where Derek (JR) and Bumblefoot (JP) do most of the composition, and MP acts as overall director/producer/arranger and handling all the extra-musical stuff. He is extremely good at doing that, one of his biggest assets to Dream Theater was the attention he paid to the 'fan experience' (individually-planned set lists, bootlegs, being very communicative with the fanbase etc).

I've thought that too but at this point there isn't a whole lot to go on as far as acting as the overall director/producer.  In an interview, Derek called Mike the setlist master.  Mike certainly did that in DT along with naming most of the album, coming up with the idea for most of the cover art, special shows, etc.  At this point there isn't really much of that. 

I've always thought his status as arranger was overstated.  Jordan and John and in this band's case Derek are perfectly capable of arranging the songs themselves.  That isn't to say Mike hasn't contributed great ideas or had an idea for an arrangement that significantly affected the overall composition of some songs, I just am having trouble seeing Mike as the band leader at this point.  Especially with how much more involved Derek is. 

[Ben_Jamin]

To me, Signs of the Time sounds like a more progressive The Winery Dogs with keys. Ritchie and Soto have that voice which I like to call the grunge-gritty-style, Chris Cornell, Scott Weiland. Sheehans bass tone has that usual grittiness. Maybe its just too gritty of a song for me.

I'll still hear the album when its released. I'll decide wheter I'll pre-order or actually buy it based on the next song, if they release another one. I may enjoy the Instrumental Opus though.

[Stadler]

To me, Signs of the Time sounds like a more progressive The Winery Dogs with keys. Ritchie and Soto have that voice which I like to call the grunge-gritty-style, Chris Cornell, Scott Weiland. Sheehans bass tone has that usual grittiness. Maybe its just too gritty of a song for me.

I'll still hear the album when its released. I'll decide wheter I'll pre-order or actually buy it based on the next song, if they release another one. I may enjoy the Instrumental Opus though.

I like that.  I'm stealing that.   I thought Kotzen sounded exactly like Cornell (not necessarily a bad thing, though I greatly prefer Chris and his music) and it fit the music.  But for me, for "prog metal", I like that soaring, melodic vocal.   When I first got into DT back in '92, it was like "Steve Perry was singing for Rush or Iron Maiden" and that was the real beauty of it.  To me, DT with growls was wasted talent with LaBrie in the band.   I know Jeff can do it (he's done it in the past) but I hope the music allows him to add a little smoothness, a little polish to the mix.   

[RoeDent]

Well they said on facebook a long time ago so 😉

Fix'd. 

[ErHaO]

Honestly I find this twitter/interview stuff to be extremely mild. Many prominent celebs give each other worse on a daily basis and some of the actors/musicians/writers/whatnot I enjoy have done way, waaay worse than some silly childish (and petty) tweets. I mean, I get that people are annoyed by them and all, but overall I consider it pretty harmless.

[bill1971]

Honestly I find this twitter/interview stuff to be extremely mild. Many prominent celebs give each other worse on a daily basis and some of the actors/musicians/writers/whatnot I enjoy have done way, waaay worse than some silly childish (and petty) tweets. I mean, I get that people are annoyed by them and all, but overall I consider it pretty harmless.

It is harmless but what the heck, amusing to talk about. It's harmless but annoying. Although MP thinks it is so bad even the mention of DT after 2010 is banned, now criticizing people being critical of DT is banned.

[bill1971]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."



Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

[KevShmev]

Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?

Don't play that.  You know full well this has been discussed here before, and they WERE posted, some by me, some by others, and there was a fair disagreement over them. I post enough here that I don't have to repeat others' posts to gain some faux credibility with you.   I acknowledged then that there could be different alternative explanations, and that was the very point.   I'm not at all saying that MY opinions matter any more than anyone else, that I know what James was thinking (or not), or that I get to play under different rules.   I'm saying that NONE OF US has the information necessary to draw the conclusions that some of us are drawing (not me, as I am saying, for the most part, that we don't know).    I was pointing out how some here decide that BECAUSE it's Mike talking (and now Derek) it's interpreted in the worst possible light out of the gate, and if it's a member of DT, BECAUSE it's DT talking it's interpreted in the best possible light out of the gate.    There's nothing to "see" about "how that works", thank you.

Untrue.

[MinistroRaven]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."


Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

 

[Madman Shepherd]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."



Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

You were clearly just having fun. I mean you're a larger than life personality. It's rock n roll! People need to quit being so sensitive.

[bill1971]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life. 

[Peace and Love]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many. Just try to think about if from their perspective. All the things you don't know about why you were banned, and all the things you could never know, are probably very very important.

[cramx3]

Honestly, I don't care about what happens at the MP website.  Not sure why it really matters here either.  After saying I haven't been over there before, I browsed last night as it was a late night at work and found some similar discussion to here, but much much less.  Let them run the place as they see fit, it is their website, people will move on if they feel it's not an interesting community.

[MinistroRaven]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.

Really?

The reason (for them) behind the banning was:

Continues to talk shit

How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?

[bill1971]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many. Just try to think about if from their perspective. All the things you don't know about why you were banned, and all the things you could never know, are probably very very important.

I get it, thank you though. I actually truly don't care. I know they are tightly wound over there, I am sure they get crap from MP knowing how tightly wound he is and I pushed a bit too much I guess.

[bill1971]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just in case people don't know, I am joking. It doesn't bother me. I think it's silly I got banned but it's there site.

Their loss. 

[Peace and Love]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.

Really?

The reason (for them) behind the banning was:

Continues to talk shit

How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?

I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.

[Madman Shepherd]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.

Really?

The reason (for them) behind the banning was:

Continues to talk shit

How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?

I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.

This is true!  You just never know.  Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now.  They could actually be related.  He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA.   You can't really know for sure with only having facts. 

[ariich]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

[PetFish]

Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge.  What an open mind you have.   (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently.    

Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online.  How else am I supposed to judge you?  What other information about you do I have?

What about Trump?  I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.

Open mind?  How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know?  If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides".  But we don't have that information, do we?  All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.

So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?

[ariich]

Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge.  What an open mind you have.   (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently.    

Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online.  How else am I supposed to judge you?  What other information about you do I have?

What about Trump?  I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.

Open mind?  How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know?  If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides".  But we don't have that information, do we?  All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.

So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?

I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what Stadler was saying. Open mind doesn't mean we need to know everything. It means taking what we see and hear with a pinch of salt because it's only part of the picture. If there is not enough information to make a meaningful judgement, then we shouldn't judge.

Interestingly enough, I disagree with Stadler when it comes to Trump, because I think we have a lot of information from a lot of different sources and it's enough to make at least a reasonable level of judgement (albeit not 100% iron-clad). But in a general sense, he's right, and I do find it frustrating the way people (in all sorts of situations, not just here) form very strong opinions on things they don't know too much about. I think it's a cultural thing in the west - many people feel they need to have an opinion on everything.

[Cruithne]

I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm.  I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.

I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.

LaBrie's voice in the post-grunge, post New Wave Of American Heavy Metal landscape has ended up sounding like something of an anachronism, but I've always found it a bit sad that LaBrie sounded great singing some fairly metal songs on Awake but from The Glass Prison onwards DT seemed to lose the ability to tailor the writing of the vocals for heavier tracks to the singer they had rather than some mythical singer that didn't exist. Sure, someone such as Robb Flynn might've suited a stock barked metal vocal such as Constant Motion way more than LaBrie, but there's no way that kind of singer would've sounded anything other than completely out of his depth attempting something such as Octavarium, which LaBrie is simply fantastic on.

Anyway, JSS's clearly a more than capable singer but I just don't get any sense of drama from his voice. I don't think his vocals will be the sticking point for the band the way the incessant falsetto on Flying Colours was for me, but if there's the same lack of vocal hooks on the rest of the material that the opening track suffered from then I don't imagine I'll be giving it much attention.

[Madman Shepherd]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!

[The Walrus]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

[AngelBack]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

But you don't know the context or other pertinent facts to the "childish" comment....*Thanks Jordan, cream and sugar please!*

[Stadler]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."



Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

Honest question:  was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"

[The Walrus]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."



Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

Honest question:  was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"

I'll let bill answer, but I posted something before his that got deleted (I wrote 'Echo, echo, echo...') and perhaps that was in response to me, so it could be the first thing.

[Stadler]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.

Really?

The reason (for them) behind the banning was:

Continues to talk shit

How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?

I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.

This is true!  You just never know.  Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now.  They could actually be related.  He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA.   You can't really know for sure with only having facts.

Ya know, the thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know) is mildly funny and all, but it CLEARLY shows you don't have a clue (or don't care, fair enough) what anyone who doesn't agree with you has to say.  You're taking it to an absurd extreme that was never intended, at least not by me (about the only one here that has maintained that we have to have an open mind).

Funny; you go to the politics threads and there are people BEGGING for others to have an open mind, and here, on this subject, it's mocked and ridiculed.