Wrestling - Road to Wrestlemania 29

[DebraKadabra]

lol WWE

lol me for continuing to watch it.

You know... I've been agreeing with you a LOT today.

[Zook]

lol WWE

lol me for continuing to watch it.

You know... I've been agreeing with you a LOT today.

o/

[KevShmev]

Three weeks till their biggest event of the year and that is the best opening segment they could come up with for tonight's Raw?

Also, can they just give Cena a skirt and pom poms now and just call him a cheerleader?  Cause that is all his promos are.  Hype up the match by referring to himself in the 3rd person at least twice, get cheap pops outta the crowd by mentioning the local sports teams, later, rinse, repeat.

[Dimitrius]

Oh fuck you WWE! You're gonna put Ziggler in a WM match for the tag titles?! Could you have fucked up MORE all the momentum he had!

[Zook]

Um doesn't he lose his title shot if he doesn't use his mitb contract by WM?

[Dimitrius]

no

[Zook]

oh

[Jaffa]

Keep in mind that MitB is its own pay-per-view now, not a Wrestlemania match.  Ziggler won MitB in July, so he has until July to cash in. 

[Zook]

Thanks Jaffa. I'll just assume dimitrius fell asleep while typing and just so happened to hit post.

[Dimitrius]

No, I just literally answer your question which was "doesn't he lose the MitB contract?" "no"

[Zook]

Wise ass.

So WWE barely gets the bleep on CM Punk last night only to show a recap and not censor his "shit" the second time. Bravo.

[DebraKadabra]

lol WWE

lol me for continuing to watch it.

You know... I've been agreeing with you a LOT today.

o/

*\o

[Zook]

After last night, if they don't make Cena lose at Wrestlemania and turn him heel, it'll be the worst mistake... the dumbest decision... It'll be typical WWE....

[toro]

After last night, if they don't make Cena lose at Wrestlemania and turn him heel, it'll be the worst mistake... the dumbest decision... It'll be typical WWE....

Don't forget that the NY will shit all over the match, shit all over Cena and possibly shit all over the ring.
I know they will fuck it up regardless and besides Cena is unsalvageable for a lot of people(like me) and turning him heel won't do anything. I just want him to go away forever.

[Zook]

I don't hate Cena like most people. I do think his gimmick is tired and old, so any kind of change is welcoming. He's still entertaining to me.

[wkiml]

Supposedly Mark Henry and Ryback both bench pressed 225 lbs 53 times each at the Smackdown taping...not sure what the world record is, but the NFL combine record stood at 51

As much as the outcomes are scripted in wrestling some of these guys are just freaks of nature

[KevShmev]

I don't hate Cena like most people. I do think his gimmick is tired and old, so any kind of change is welcoming. He's still entertaining to me.

To say the least.  Like I have said before, he is basically a walking spokesperson for the company, as he comes out and basically wastes his promo time promoting the match, referring to himself in the 3rd person and acting like a cheerleader. It is embarrassing.  And I realize he is probably just doing what he is told, but his act was old and tired years ago, yet he brings in the company too much money in merchandise, so they refuse to turn him.  And they wonder why the product is mostly stale.

Also, whatever happened to guys actually trying to get out of a submission move?  I didn't watch Miz/Barrett the other night, merely forwarding to the end to see who won.  Miz puts the figure four on Barrett, and it literally took like two seconds for Barrett to tap out.  I was like, to quote Miz, really?  REALLY?  That is what jobbers do, give up immediately.  Legit upper and mid carders at least put up a fight for a short bit before tapping out.  Or at least they used to.  But I guess they don't want to drag a match out any longer, as that would give them less time to talk about twitter and show a replay for the 19th time.

[Syzzle]

Supposedly Mark Henry and Ryback both bench pressed 225 lbs 53 times each at the Smackdown taping...not sure what the world record is, but the NFL combine record stood at 51

As much as the outcomes are scripted in wrestling some of these guys are just freaks of nature

Mark Henry was the Worlds Strongest Man years ago so really no shock there. I would be more interested in seeing John Cena try it. He's a lot stronger than Ryback, and definitely has more endurance he could probably get 55-60 reps.

[Jaffa]

Also, whatever happened to guys actually trying to get out of a submission move?

I don't know, but personally, I think it's generally more realistic this way.  Watch MMA.  Watch Brock Lesnar tap out to Frank Mir.  How long does it take him to submit once the hold is locked in?  No time at all.  Because when you're legitimately trapped in a painful hold, you don't always make a token futile effort to get out of it just to look cool.  Sometimes you just want the other guy to get off you before he breaks your leg.

In WWE, I think it depends on the match.  Sometimes you need an epic struggle, but not always.  Sometimes living to fight another day makes a lot more sense in the context.

[BlobVanDam]

Also, whatever happened to guys actually trying to get out of a submission move?

I don't know, but personally, I think it's generally more realistic this way.  Watch MMA.  Watch Brock Lesnar tap out to Frank Mir.  How long does it take him to submit once the hold is locked in?  No time at all.  Because when you're legitimately trapped in a painful hold, you don't always make a token futile effort to get out of it just to look cool.  Sometimes you just want the other guy to get off you before he breaks your leg.

In WWE, I think it depends on the match.  Sometimes you need an epic struggle, but not always.  Sometimes living to fight another day makes a lot more sense in the context.

But on the other hand, professional wrestling isn't about realism. It's about staging an exciting match, and having someone struggle to get out of a submission move creates tension and anticipation for the audience. If the person just give up immediately, there's no buildup, and it's just over. That's not very exciting, and all it does is make the person who lost look bad.
You can have a wrestler lose a match, and still come off looking good, like they put up a good fight. But WWE don't seem to care about that.

[Jaffa]

But on the other hand, professional wrestling isn't about realism. 

True, but for me as a fan, realism helps. 

It's about staging an exciting match, and having someone struggle to get out of a submission move creates tension and anticipation for the audience.

It can, yes, but that doesn't mean that's what should happen every single time a submission move is applied.  Like I said, sometimes you need an epic struggle.  I just don't think every situation calls for it.  Sometimes it helps to have someone just tap out quickly, because it gives the submission move credibility.

[jingle.boy]

But having that quick tapout completely invalidates any and every 'epic struggle'.  We all know that true submission holds that are used (figure 4, sleeper, ankle lock) if they were REAL, people would be tapping or blacking out in a matter of seconds.  So, attempting to inject any manner of realism into wrestling - sorry, "Sports Entertainment" - is unnecessary and detrimental to the entertainment product (IMO).

[KevShmev]

Yeah, if we are gonna add realism to it, then applying the submission move shouldn't be that easy in the first place.  I remember when Ric Flair used to spend a whole match working on an opponent's leg, so that when he did apply the figure-four, his opponent was good and softened up.  Meanwhile, when Miz uses it now, he does almost nothing to set up for it, and then just throws it in, like it's just another random part of his move-set.  In fact, that happens far too often lately.  Hell, the other night when Rock and Cena had their confrontation, Cena tries giving Rock the AA just like that, which made zero sense since, if we are adding realism to it, any wrestler worth his salt would be able to fight out of it if they hadn't been softened up at all.  Moves like the AA, GTS, etc. should only work on an opponent that has been worn down, as opposed to something like the DDT, Rock Bottom, etc., which are quick strike moves that can be delivered and realistically come off as effective in any circumstance.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, if we are gonna add realism to it, then applying the submission move shouldn't be that easy in the first place.  I remember when Ric Flair used to spend a whole match working on an opponent's leg, so that when he did apply the figure-four, his opponent was good and softened up.  Meanwhile, when Miz uses it now, he does almost nothing to set up for it, and then just throws it in, like it's just another random part of his move-set.

That's why it always bothered me when the Rock used the sharp shooter. Bret Hart would spend the match working on the legs to win with that move, and that's what made it convincing when he won with that move, not just the move itself. If he tried applying the move earlier in the match, they'd struggle out or kick him, as would be believable.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, if we are gonna add realism to it, then applying the submission move shouldn't be that easy in the first place.  I remember when Ric Flair used to spend a whole match working on an opponent's leg, so that when he did apply the figure-four, his opponent was good and softened up.  Meanwhile, when Miz uses it now, he does almost nothing to set up for it, and then just throws it in, like it's just another random part of his move-set.

That's why it always bothered me when the Rock used the sharp shooter. Bret Hart would spend the match working on the legs to win with that move, and that's what made it convincing when he won with that move, not just the move itself. If he tried applying the move earlier in the match, they'd struggle out or kick him, as would be believable.

That's called "ring psychology."  We don't do that anymore.

Look! Pyro!

[Jaffa]

But having that quick tapout completely invalidates any and every 'epic struggle'.

This is what I don't get.  To me, having the quick tapouts makes the struggles that much more impressive when they happen. 

[jingle.boy]

But having that quick tapout completely invalidates any and every 'epic struggle'.

This is what I don't get.  To me, having the quick tapouts makes the struggles that much more impressive when they happen.

Barrett taps in a matter of seconds to Miz/figure-4.  Let's say Miz puts Ziggler in it next week.  What makes Ziggler's knee caps that much stronger that he can have an epic struggle.  It makes no sense.

[Jaffa]

But having that quick tapout completely invalidates any and every 'epic struggle'.

This is what I don't get.  To me, having the quick tapouts makes the struggles that much more impressive when they happen.

Barrett taps in a matter of seconds to Miz/figure-4.  Let's say Miz puts Ziggler in it next week.  What makes Ziggler's knee caps that much stronger that he can have an epic struggle.  It makes no sense.

I think it depends on the match, not on the person.  Barrett taps out in a matter of seconds to the figure four in a non-title match on Raw.  In an IC title match at Wrestlemania, Barrett endures more pain, because there's a lot more on the line. 

[DebraKadabra]

I'm finding it very difficult to muster up any enthusiasm for WM this year.

[jjrock88]

Missed the last couple of Raw's.  Is there any celebrity tie in's this year.  I agree with Deb, its difficult to have enthusiasm this year for WM.

[DebraKadabra]

Missed the last couple of Raw's.  Is there any celebrity tie in's this year.

Not that I've seen so far.

I agree with Deb, its difficult to have enthusiasm this year for WM.

[toro]

P. Diddy.

[DebraKadabra]

Seriously?!

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I'll probably enjoy the Punk/Taker match. I'm looking forward to Fandango/Jericho in what will no doubt be the best wrestling match of the evening. I wish that Sandow, Kofi, R-Truth or someone else would have gotten the Jericho rub.

I'm also holding out hope that Cena will go heel via help from the Shield. What better display of Justice then getting the WWE Championship away from team part time.

[DebraKadabra]

I'd love to see Cena go heel, but he probably won't for many of the reasons that've been previously mentioned.