Rush Album-Pair Discussion Of The Week! (Now with POLL!!! VOTE!!!)

[nicmos]

I agree with most of what you said, Jammindude.

But I don't like New World Man at all-- that song has no redeeming value and I suspect it was put on because they wanted a second single.  I don't like The Weapon as much as you do, I find it pretty hard to get through.  But what can you say about Subdivisions, clearly in the top 5 Rush songs ever.  And I, along with a lot of others here apparently, love Losing It (Of all things to choose to quote in my yearbook, this is what I chose!).  But I also like The Enemy Within better than you do apparently, and I also like The Body Electric, especially the solo.  And I agree with the rest of what you said about GUP.  I can't believe you didn't mention how awesome the instrumental section of Afterimage is.  They really nailed a lot of the instrumental sections, when you think about Between the Wheels and Red Lenses as well.

So for me it is a decisive victory for GUP.

[The Letter M]

Power Windows VS Hold Your Fire - the first pair of Peter Collins' produced Rush Albums! (The 2nd pair will be up later...)

Without a doubt, POW > HYF. The latter has some great songs like "Lock And Key", "Mission", "Prime Mover", "Force Ten" and even "Time Stand Still", but half of the album is slightly under par, especially after the greatness of POW, where nearly ever song is top-notch.

The expansion to 10 songs from 8 due to the allowances of CDs length being greater than vinyl let them write more than they usually did for an album, but to be honest, I think they could have written a better album with 8 songs and excluded "Tai Shan" which, at the time, sounded okay, but in retrospect, even the band themselves find it a bit embarrassing.

-Marc.

[Phoenix87x]

Even though I love HYF, I'll have to go with Power Windows.

And I totally agree about Tai Shan.

[MasterLomaxus]

I keep flip flopping on this.  I used to almost dislike Hold Your Fire, then it became one of my favorites.  I suppose I prefer Power Windows, due to my insatiable love for Middletown Dreams

[jammindude]

I've grown to really like Tai Shan.    But for me, HYF will forever go down in history as the very first flawed Rush album.   The very first album that I felt compelled to skip a track.   On previous albums, even if there were songs that weren't as great as others, I would still listen to them and enjoy them.   But after 11 nearly flawless albums, HYF was just too slick, and not enough substance. 

Power Windows is the the synth era what Hemispheres is to the "prog" era.   It is Rush synth rock perfection. 

Power Windows by MILES for me.

[nicmos]

HYF has some great stuff on it.  There's nothing quite like Turn The Page on any other album-- what a bass line.  I'm not going to mention most of the tracks, because I think they're all enjoyable.  I agree that Tai Shan is one of those you have to be in the mood for.  But for someone who's been to Huangshan (but not Taishan) it brings new meaning and I really find the song peaceful and meditative.  Add Open Secrets and Second Nature to the list of songs that I have to be in the mood for, but when I am they are great.  I dare say that High Water is a better closer than Mystic Rythyms (which I like immensely, don't get me wrong).  Also, the synth palate expanded somewhat on this album, and is used in more creative ways, and doesn't overpower as it does sometimes on Power Windows.

The only problem with HYF is that you can't compete with the overall awesomeness that is Power Windows.

So, Power Windows.  But I would probably take Power Windows over any other Rush album, so it's not fair that HYF is the one that has to go up against it.

[The Letter M]

Presto VS Roll The Bones - the only pair of albums Rush released that were produced by Rupert Hine.

Many say the original mix of Presto was thin, and the album sounded a bit flat because of it, but the recent Atlantic Remaster breathes a bit more life into the album, and in the last year or so, having revisited the album with more open ears, I've come to love this album more and more. It already had great tracks on it, like "Show Don't Tell", "The Pass", "Chain Lightning", "War Paint", "Scars" and especially "Available Light", but since then, I've come to really enjoy "Presto", "Red Tide", and "Hand Over Fist". I suppose many fan's qualms probably lie with "Superconductor" and the cheesiness of "Anagram (For Mongo)", but they have a certain endearing factor - the former being a really good rock tune that rocks so well, some might not even notice it's in 7/4, while the latter is just full of some clever (if still cheesy) word play that will have you seeing letters and words in your mind.
Over-all, Presto has some great moments, some good pieces, but nothing I would call really bad or un-listenable. They stepped up from HYF and presented a good album. Could it have been a stronger 8-song collection? Definitely, but they gave us everything they had and it was pretty good.

(Note - AFAIK, "Scars" is the last song Neil recorded with the electronic kit in the studio, right? I've been trying to figure out why he hasn't used his electronic kit for any songs since then...)

Roll The Bones was the next step in the band's direction toward heavier material, but for me, I still think the previous album had better OVERALL song writing. RTB has great songs on it as well, but it's highs equal Presto's, while it's lows are just a BIT lower than Presto's.

For me, Presto > RTB.

-Marc.

[jammindude]

Presto was definitely an improvement over HYF.   It was nice to hear them get stripped down to the basics again....too bad it lacked the punch that it could have.   There are *A LOT* of really fantastic underappreciated songs on this album.   Chain Lightning, War Paint, Scars, Superconductor, Presto, Available Light.   It was a decent return to form, although I think I was expecting *a bit* more.

Roll the Bones.  UGH.   I think I can sum up by saying that my top 5 all time least favorite Rush songs in their entire catalog are:

1. You Bet Your Life
2. Neurotica
3. Heresy
4. Face Up
5. The Big Wheel

The only album that I never bought the remaster for, the only Rush album I never listen to any more, the only Rush album I *actively* dislike.   The only Rush album in their entire catalog I would qualify as a *BAD* album.   

The first three songs are good...Ghost of a Chance and Where's My Thing are the other two saving graces.   Everything else on the album...I'm sorry...is crap.

[nicmos]

Oh goody.  I get to have the dissenting opinion.

I'm going to agree with pretty much everything M said about Presto.  Spot on.

Now we have Roll the Bones.  First, there's Dreamline, which in my opinion is Rush's single best song since Subdivisions (although I can't really give you the long view of Clockwork Angels yet, but I don't think that's going to change my assessment.)  Bravado is great, as is Roll the Bones (yes, the rap is cheesy, but still a good song.)  Guess what, I love Face Up.  Where's My Thing is better than Leave That Thing Alone or Limbo, it should have won the grammy that year except it was unfortunate to go up against some great Eric Johnson material.  Big Wheel is a great song, I don't know why this doesn't get more love.  Heresy is a great bittersweet song that you have to be in the mood for, but if you are it's not lacking at all.  Ghost of a Chance is actually sort of meh for me except the solo is great of course.  Neurotica has a nice broody mood to it, not their best but not bad.  And You Bet Your Life is a decent closer.  It's a pretty unique song from a Rush standpoint.  And yes, the production is better than Presto, definitely more life.

I can't give a clear winner of these two fine albums.  I might as well throw darts, they are that equal as far as I'm concerned.

[Big Hath]

I agree with much of what nicmos said.  RTB is really good.  However, Neurotica is a song I skip more often than not.  Don't really like that chorus at all.

[dbrooks22]

Just going to take some snippets from earlier posts about this:

It took me a very long time to appreciate Presto - about 6 months.  Since then - 1993 - it has grown and evolved in ways that i would never have imagined.  Now, it is hands down my desert island Rush CD.

Presto also came along at a magical time in my life.  But all things considered, RTB is a better and more developed record.  It's kind of like relationships.  You may love one person from your past more than another, or there may have been one person that came along "at a magical time."  But that doesn't mean they were a better person/mate.  RTB has a couple throwaway songs, but there are at least 3-4 that are far better than any of the tracks on Presto. 

The Pass is a great song, and has a lot of emotional charge to it, but Ghost/Chance, Bravado, Dreamline - i believe they are stronger songs.  The themes on Presto don't seem to be as fully developed as on RTB.  They are more raw.  Some - like me - love that rawness.

That being said, i would take Presto to a desert island before RTB.  Such is life.

[The Letter M]

And now we're to the 2nd pair of albums produced with Peter Collins.

Again, I'd have to go with the first of the two. It seems like with this, and the previous two pairings, the first album of the two always seems to hold me more (and to some extent, same with AFTK>HEMI and PEW>MP). Counterparts has some GREAT songs, some hard stuff, some heavy stuff, and some pretty proggy stuff that is quite a few steps forward and sideways from Roll The Bones.

Compared to Test For Echo, they really kept SOME of the hard/heavy sounds, but the lyrics were a bit weirder, and so some of the songs suffer from that. There's some good stuff on there, but only about half of the album, IMO, is as good as what they had on CP.

Easy for me, CP > TFE.

-Marc.

[Phoenix87x]

Before CA, I would have said that counterparts was the high water mark for modern day Rush. Its still pretty damn good,  where as TFE is is a mess of a album. Its has really decent highs such as resist, TFE, and driven. But the lows are rock bottom, dog years, time/motion. Then there's the bland in-between songs like Half the world waits, The color of Right and carve away the stone which very Meh.

TFE could have been great, but it dropped the ball.

[Lowdz]

Love Counterparts for the most part, but can't abide TFE. There is nothing there that matches anything they had done previously, even the poor tracks from previous albums. I tried it again recently and it just confirmed what a poor album it is. It was the start of a rot that it's taken them nearly 20 years to put right.

[The Letter M]

I almost forgot about this thread!!!

Now we're up to date with the band's previous 2 full-length studio albums: Vapor Trails and Snakes & Arrows.

Both albums feature 13 tracks each, and are about the same length. If I had to choose, I might say I couldn't - The material on VT is just raw and full of energy, a kind of energy the band had on CP and (only a bit on ) TFE, but even MORE so. However, S&A has some well composed, well written, well CRAFTED songs, not to mention 3 instrumentals that are all fantastic.

I think I would have to give a SLIGHT edge to VT, since it was released around the time I got into Rush, so the copy I own is VERY worn out from months of over-playing. The songs went deep into my veins and I absorbed the whole album like water. I air-drummed to every song, sang every lyric, and just fell in love with the album, and it was release at a time when I was getting into Rush and prog in general, so it's a special album to me.

Also, lyrically speaking, many of the songs on VT are very personal in nature, but also universal. I can sympathize with Neil's writings and understand and feel the emotions that went into many of the lyrics for the album. I also read his book, Ghost Rider, so that album and the book really mean a lot to me, especially when I was going through some tough times back then.

However, S&A was the heavily anticipated follow-up, and I did take the time to learn "The Main Monkey Business" by ear within the first week of the album's release. It's a great album, but I find the songs on VT to be slightly better (production/mastering notwithstanding). Lyrically speaking, S&A is good but it's not very personal for me - it's a bit preachy and, while I agree with many of the lyrics, they can also be a bit obtuse and un-relate-able. I think they're good, but there's a bit of magic missing in them that was on VT.

-Marc.

[jammindude]

I almost forgot about this thread!!!

Now we're up to date with the band's previous 2 full-length studio albums: Vapor Trails and Snakes & Arrows.

Both albums feature 13 tracks each, and are about the same length. If I had to choose, I might say I couldn't - The material on VT is just raw and full of energy, a kind of energy the band had on CP and (only a bit on ) TFE, but even MORE so. However, S&A has some well composed, well written, well CRAFTED songs, not to mention 3 instrumentals that are all fantastic.

I think I would have to give a SLIGHT edge to VT, since it was released around the time I got into Rush, so the copy I own is VERY worn out from months of over-playing. The songs went deep into my veins and I absorbed the whole album like water. I air-drummed to every song, sang every lyric, and just fell in love with the album, and it was release at a time when I was getting into Rush and prog in general, so it's a special album to me.

However, S&A was the heavily anticipated follow-up, and I did take the time to learn "The Main Monkey Business" by ear within the first week of the album's release. It's a great album, but I find the songs on VT to be slightly better (production/mastering notwithstanding).

-Marc.

There are only two Rush albums I consider to be practically unlistenable.    Roll the Bones, and Vapor Trails.

With Roll the Bones, it was just subpar songwriting.  Probably the only case of that in the entire Rush catalog...so I still consider that to be their worst album.

With Vapor Trails (the second worst) it's all about production.   I just can't listen to it.   I like some of the songs, but if the production hasn't ruined a song, then the yodeling does. 

My favorites are Ghost Rider, Peaceable Kingdom, And the Stars Look Down and Freeze.    Freeze and Ghost Rider are the only songs that I consider to be *AMAZING*.   The rest of the album is a pretty big letdown.   The riff for Earthshine is good, but the yodeling in the pre-chorus sounds like Slim Whitman...terrible.  Completely ruins the song for me. 

S&A OTOH is nothing short of incredible!!  I love every single song on the album (Hope/Faithless is a particular highlight...I NEVER play one without the other) and I always count it among the Rush classics.

[fadetoblackdude7]

S&A by far....has more songs on it that I like, while VT is at the bottom of the list for me for Rush....I just can't digest the songs on that album, they go down like a brick.

[Orbert]

Vapor Trails does have the raw energy going for it, and it has a different sound to it, not talking about the production, but the approach to the songwriting itself.  Unfortunately, there are the well-known issues with the sound quality of the album itself, and I just can't listen to it.  I never got into it enough to where I feel like subjecting myself to an aural assault just to here some cool riffs.

Snakes & Arrows is also very dense, but at least I can hear it.  I'm still not a huge fan of the modern, ultra-compressed production, but the quality of the songs makes it worth it.

[Phoenix87x]

VP is good, but goes on way too long. I've never been able to make it from beginning to end and because of this, I rarely listen to it.

Snakes and Arrows is one of my favorite Rush albums. I just love it, especially Hope.

[The Letter M]

VP is good, but goes on way too long. I've never been able to make it from beginning to end and because of this, I rarely listen to it.

Snakes and Arrows is one of my favorite Rush albums. I just love it, especially Hope.

  This is like the 4th time this week I've seen someone refer to Vapor Trails as VP... are you thinking of "Vapor Pails"? or... "Va Portrails" as the title? Maybe you're hearing it as "Vay Portrayals"...which, doesn't really make much sense.

-Marc.

[Phoenix87x]

VP is good, but goes on way too long. I've never been able to make it from beginning to end and because of this, I rarely listen to it.

Snakes and Arrows is one of my favorite Rush albums. I just love it, especially Hope.

  This is like the 4th time this week I've seen someone refer to Vapor Trails as VP... are you thinking of "Vapor Pails"? or... "Va Portrails" as the title? Maybe you're hearing it as "Vay Portrayals"...which, doesn't really make much sense.

-Marc.

   Oops.

[The Letter M]

THREAD NECROMANCY! Poll added for fun!

I thought about doing strict pairs (i.e. 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, etc.) but decided to include ALL the back-to-back pairs. So pick your three faves and discuss!

-Marc.

[Unlegit]

I voted on the thought that you don't take any of the other pairs into account. Of course, this is how it should be, I assume. Anyways, I picked AFtK and Hemispheres, PW and MP, and p/g and PoW. The first pair because of Cygnus, obviously. The second pair showcases their changing style into being slightly more mainstream while still proggy. And the final pair because it shows the synth era perfectly IMO.

[Ruba]

Always open for Rush-related polls  .

Hemispheres - Permanent Waves: my two favourites
Signals - Grace Under Pressure: can't go wrong with the synth era
Counterparts - Test for Echo: I wanted to have Counterparts, and I slightly prefer TFE to RTB.