Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[nobloodyname]

Such a great album. They really nailed it across the board. Complexity that is appealing. Tightness. Supreme sonic quality. Great solos. Inventive compositions. One of the best prog metal albums in recent years.

Never been a huge fan of Haken, admittedly, but I do agree with this.

I'd also add that the singer's voice finally feels like it fits the music.

[Pettor]

Same for me. Not a huge Haken fan but this albums really have become an entry to their sound. Maybe the other albums will start opening up somewhat now. Also agree with the singer. This fits better than what I heard previously.

Strangely it was the same with DT. I loved TOT initially and that's not my favourite album with them anymore (SDOIT ), but it worked as a entry to their sounds and discography. It was hard to understand DT initially, but the sound was so intriguing that I continued trying. SDOIT and SFAM took a long time to digest but being able to go back to TOT whenever I felt overwhelmed helped. I hope Virus / Vector will be the same for Haken.

[me7]

Next stop: Affinity.

[Pettor]

Haha I am playing Affinity right now. Good album. Can't see it becoming an all time favourite, but who knows, maybe something is hiding there. The growl in The Architect is the most off-putting thing I heard since Mike in A Nightmare to Remember. Really liked the song and then that happened, whyyyyyyyyyy?!?!

[Zydar]

What do you think of the retro feel of 1985?

[Mladen]

I used to find it a bit dated back when the album came out, but it grew on me. Nowadays, I kind of like how much it reminds me of Images and words.

[Pettor]

1985 is nice. I can see some similarities to I&W that I like. It's light, joyous and melodic which are all traits I think prog bands should use more often

Affinity in general feels quite vibrant which I like. Usually that means the keyboards has great emphasis and are using sounds that changes the landscapes of the songs. Need to digest The Architect, Red Giant and Bound by Gravity a bit more to get a better overall feeling about the record.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Re: Cockroach King

I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain (a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it). It wasn't until Vector/Virus that they turned him into an actual character with a backstory. That's my understanding anyway.

[ariich]

Re: Cockroach King

I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain (a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it). It wasn't until Vector/Virus that they turned him into an actual character with a backstory. That's my understanding anyway.

I'm not sure about capitalism, or indeed about drugs - but it can definitely be interpreted to specific issues like those. But certainly it's about greed and ambition. And I've said a couple of times before, that's the case for Vector/Virus as well. It has a more fleshed out story, naturally, because it's a two-part concept album and not a single song, but it's similarly metaphorical/allegorical as the original song. Being more fleshed out as a story also means it touches on other themes as well.

[me7]

I always viewed it abstractly, but if I had to assign concrete meaning to it, I'd say it is a song about the temptation to stop investing time in prog dreams and turn into a full time cover band for weddings.
Y'know, to actually make money off of music.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I feel like Virus is starting to grow on me a little bit, but I still can't say I'm loving it. It's got some fun qualities to it. MESSiah Complex is pretty good but definitely feels like a Shattered Fortress type mix-match to me. Which...isn't necessarily bad. I'm a pretty big fan of jarring transitions in songs, hence why BTBAM is arguably my favorite band.

I think at the moment I still prefer Vector. Songs like Puzzle Box and Veil are better than anything on Virus, at least that's how I feel in this moment. That could change, though.

Didn't feel like going back through this whole thread. But is there anyone that considers Virus to be your favorite Haken album, despite it being so early? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts about why.

[Pettor]

I see Coackroach King and Vector / Virus kinda like Metropolis Part 1 and Scenes From a Memory. The song is kinda abstract and the CDs a fun interpretation, or possible story, using that concept. Vector/ Virus is more literal even if there's room for interpretation.

In programming Coackroach King would be an interface (maybe abstract class) and Vector / Virus an implementation  .... ehrmmm.

[cramx3]

I always viewed it abstractly, but if I had to assign concrete meaning to it, I'd say it is a song about the temptation to stop investing time in prog dreams and turn into a full time cover band for weddings.
Y'know, to actually make money off of music.

 

[Progmetty]

I was under the impression that the Cockroach King was purely a metaphor for capitalism in The Mountain

That was my impression on first listen as well. Chasing the capitalist dream and getting close enough to see the cruelness and merciless nature of it.
But then if you're a capitalist; you'd probably be able to see it as something else that fits your world view better and that's kinda the beauty of it all, being open to interpretations.

(a concept album without a direct story, about dealing with success & the aftermath of it).

I'm not sure if it's specific to Roger Waters, but he calls these "thematic". Like DSOTM, WYWH & Animals, unlike The Wall which does have an actual plot.
It feels like The Path gives us an overview of what the album is about, pretty clearly too IMO.

This life is a dream
A gift we receive
To live and to love
We forge The Path
Our nightmare in birth
Our struggle for worth
In vain we carry on
Our mission to become
Adapt to this world
It's a chance we must take
We'll sing our song
We'll play our hand

So, to me, this reads like all the topics the rest of the songs cover. Life is beautiful, we're meant to use it to give and receive love without being passive, but it's not that simple. There are immense challenges in the way of doing so, primarily; having to engage and adapt to the world without letting it drag us away from life's initial purpose (to give and receive love). So we try and give it our best shot, but there's also emphasis that luck plays a role.

Taking the time to go over the booklet a bunch of times over the last couple of days; I cannot help comparing this album to The Dark Side of The Moon, an album commonly described as being about "how everyday pressures of modern life can lead to madness", although I don't fully agree with that common assessment. Not the same exact theme as The Mountain, but as close as any other work would get to it, thematically that is.
And to stir the same emotions that DSOTM did to me, to even make your album comparable to DSOTM to me, is such a monumental fuckin achievement if I may say so. Fuckin bravo Haken.

I'm not sure about capitalism

But certainly it's about greed and ambition.

[kirksnosehair]

I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about 

[cramx3]

I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about 

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

[Ben_Jamin]

I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about 

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

I don't care about it either, although it is fun to analyze it.

[cramx3]

I like the album, but after a couple of listens I have no idea what it's about 

Me neither, and honestly, I don't care that much.  It's not such a direct story ala SFAM to really follow along.  I just enjoy the songs and some of the calls backs to other songs.  That's not to say I'm against the story or anything, I just haven't really been too interesting to dig that deep since it's not that literal. 

I'm starting to wonder if this is my album of the year.  I can't get some of these melodies out of my head.

I don't care about it either, although it is fun to analyze it.

I also really suck at poetry and the like so interpreting words has never been a strong suite for me.  I think it's fun to read other people's analysis though.  I enjoy the discussion.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

That was quick!

Haken - Messiah Complex - 8-Bit NES-style remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiF_IDewUbE

[Crow]

i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

[Evermind]

i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

B R A V O
   O
   S
   S

[gzarruk]

i figured it all out:

diego -is- the cockroach king!

Called it first:

Actually, it's all a trick. Diego is kicking everyone else out of Haken.

Plot twist: Diego is the Cockroach King.

 

[Buddyhunter1]

no it's kevin moore

[Crow]

kevin moore is the good doctor, buddy, and diego was his pupil/protege

[Buddyhunter1]

Where does Mike Portnoy fit into this?

[cramx3]

Where does Mike Portnoy fit into this?

I literally was about to say this 

[Buddyhunter1]

Maybe he's the protagonist of Falling Back To Earth

[me7]

Mike Portnoy is the nurse that cries "Calling Dr. Rex to Cell block two".

[Progmetty]

Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.

[me7]

Mixed bag. They are not real remixes, but very aggressive remasters that try to sound like remixes. The intentions are good, but it sounds very artificial at times.

[Max Kuehnau]

Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.

No, sounding worse actually IMHO. (Aquarius: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=haken&album=aquarius) (Visions: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=haken&album=visions)

[cramx3]

Are the Visions & Aquarius reissues significantly better sounding? I just noticed they reissued them in 2017 and debating buying them, I think they sounded just fine before.

If you think they sound fine, why bother?  I'm not a fan of remixes and remasters unless I really disliked the original, otherwise it just feels like a money grab.

[me7]

The loudness-war database entries don't do the remasters justice tough. The remasters are not just brickwalled as is often the case.

[ariich]

Yeah, I like the remasters - there's a tiny bit more punch to them. But it's not a significant difference. The other treat is the instrumental versions. But if you're not interested in those and happy with how the originals sound, not sure how much you'd get out of the reissues (assuming you own the originals already).

[ariich]

By the way, completely random but I was browsing through old parts of this thread to try and remind myself when Haken started getting to the stage of some fans not liking their new albums (the answer is essentially it happened a bit with The Mountain but really it started with Affinity - I guess Mountain was their breakthrough album that increased the size of their fanbase, so that's pretty natural), and I came across this gem:

You can't hate on a band's new album until their 6th album, AND they've been around for at least 10 years. That's the rock and roll rules.