Symphony X thread!

[nightmare_cinema]

Symphony X is one of the few bands I really wouldn't for a DVD from. I've seen them live, and have seen a bunch of youtubes and of course the gigantour DVD and.........well they're just super boring live. Russell is awesome, no question about that. Michael Romeo's only form of stage presence is sometimes smoking a cigarette on stage. Leapond's only thing is that he sometimes smiles at the audience. Pinella....forget about it, and Rullo just constantly looks like he's trying to hold in a huge fart.

That's interesting you'd say that, their live presence was exactly the thing that made me fall in love with them in the first place! On the albums I was never really interested, then I saw them support DT in Manchester... again, nothing. But then I saw them support DT in Blackburn where I was on the barrier and there from the start and was utterly blown away. I thought they all looked pretty into it but Russell Allen had enough stage presence to be playing with a bunch of mannequins and still get the crowd going. From then on I got into their music and then saw them a few years later on in their own show.

Iconoclast is definitely my favourite album by them. It's just so solidly consistent, and ends with my favourite SX track. When All is Lost became such a comfort to me at one point.

[jingle.boy]

Tastes:  Everyone has their own, and I'm down with that. 

[nightmare_cinema]

Tastes:  Everyone has their own, and I'm down with that. 

Of course... I love talking about songs/albums with people who are already into the band to whatever extent and have an opinion, whether it matches mine or not (usually it's more interesting when we don't agree on everything )

[jingle.boy]

Well, considering the beat down that Iconoclast was taking over the last page or so, I'm sure it appreciated you coming to the rescue.

[Mladen]

It's always refreshing to see someone with a different opinion.  I didn't like Iconoclast, but I get how it could appeal to some fans. 

[nightmare_cinema]

I didn't read the last page admittedly, but last I knew it had gotten a really favourable reception!

[Big Hath]

it's a good album for what it is, but I think the band is capable of so much more.

[Jaq]

I still don't get the hate for Symphony X becoming more progressively heavy as time goes by, especially Iconoclast, because it feels like the critics of the band are pretty much ignoring the progression the band has made in that regards since the start. Each album is heavier and more guitar driven than the one before it. People-and some of them are here-are acting like the band woke up with Paradise Lost and said "We're a metal band!" I don't mind someone with understandable concerns about Iconoclast-it does get a bit samey after about seven or eight songs, Russell Allen doesn't get to use as much of his range as I'd like-but the people who slam SX for suddenly becoming heavy when that's been the path they've been on since the start, I sometimes wonder which Symphony X they're listening to.

[Mindflux]

That's interesting you'd say that, their live presence was exactly the thing that made me fall in love with them in the first place! On the albums I was never really interested, then I saw them support DT in Manchester... again, nothing. But then I saw them support DT in Blackburn where I was on the barrier and there from the start and was utterly blown away. I thought they all looked pretty into it but Russell Allen had enough stage presence to be playing with a bunch of mannequins and still get the crowd going. From then on I got into their music and then saw them a few years later on in their own show.

Iconoclast is definitely my favourite album by them. It's just so solidly consistent, and ends with my favourite SX track. When All is Lost became such a comfort to me at one point.

That's got to be the woman's point of view... because frankly.. as much as I like/love SX, their live show (I saw them a few months back here in Austin) is pretty boring.  Russell is a good frontman and gets some audience interaction going, but... a live DVD/BD would just put me to sleep.  Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are.  It wasn't just the last tour either, I saw them around 2007 (?) in between Dream Theater Dates for Systematic Chaos up in Dallas/Fort Worth... probably around the time Paradise Lost came out and that was positively boring to watch too.

I'd probably still BUY it though, to support the band.

[nightmare_cinema]

I maybe shouldn't bite, be... what the hell does me being a woman have to do with my opinion on Symphony X's live show?? I'm fairly sure I'm not the only fan out there that thinks they're amazing live.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Pretty huge assumptions you're making there, a) that I'm attracted to any of the members and b) that this would be the reason I enjoy watching them 

[Zook]

I saw Symphony X May 2011 and they were amazing. Russell was a trip and although the other guys weren't jumping up and down or anything, it was a great fun show.

Hansi basically stood in one spot the whole time, but the Blind Guardian DVD was still enjoyable.

[Mindflux]

I maybe shouldn't bite, be... what the hell does me being a woman have to do with my opinion on Symphony X's live show?? I'm fairly sure I'm not the only fan out there that thinks they're amazing live.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Pretty huge assumptions you're making there, a) that I'm attracted to any of the members and b) that this would be the reason I enjoy watching them 

It's not hard to understand. If you are attracted to someone you are more prone to like more things about them.  I'm sure there have been plenty of studies on the psychology behind that.   

I'm sure there are plenty of people that think their live show is great, but I see a lot of GUYS in this thread stating a DVD or live viewing of the band would do nothing for them.  You like the show, you're a woman.. it stands to reason that ATTRACTION to a member of the band could be part of the reason you enjoy the show more.  It's just one theory, it's not the FINAL theory.

[nightmare_cinema]

It's not beyond the realm of reasonable assumption that someone could enjoy a live show a bit more because they fancy one of the musicians, but you said "I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are" which is a huge assumption and pretty insulting. I would never presume that your reasoning behind enjoying a live show was that you're secretly gay and wanna fuck the lead singer. I've seen plenty of guys say how much they like SX live, on and away from these boards.

Don't make judgements that me being female has anything to do with my opinion on music. And maybe don't start a post with "That's got to be the woman's point of view..." unless you want a pissed off feminist on your hands.

[Mindflux]

It's not beyond the realm of reasonable assumption that someone could enjoy a live show a bit more because they fancy one of the musicians, but you said "I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are" which is a huge assumption and pretty insulting. I would never presume that your reasoning behind enjoying a live show was that you're secretly gay and wanna fuck the lead singer. I've seen plenty of guys say how much they like SX live, on and away from these boards.

Don't make judgements that me being female has anything to do with my opinion on music. And maybe don't start a post with "That's got to be the woman's point of view..." unless you want a pissed off feminist on your hands.

 

Like I said, it's a logical assumption and not the sole reason one might like a band.  You don' t have to go around stomping your feet proclaiming your feminism to me.

Hell in this very thread other folks have mentioned how 'dreamy' Russell is.... so again it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that attraction plays a part in enjoyment.

P.S Are you the type of 'feminist' that thinks men and women should be entirely equal but gets offended when a man doesn't hold a door open for you or offer to pay for your meal? 

[nightmare_cinema]

Assuming that I like SX live because I fancy the members is not a logical assumption, and is pretty offensive. But whatever. Have a great evening.

[nightmare_cinema]

It's not beyond the realm of reasonable assumption that someone could enjoy a live show a bit more because they fancy one of the musicians, but you said "I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are" which is a huge assumption and pretty insulting. I would never presume that your reasoning behind enjoying a live show was that you're secretly gay and wanna fuck the lead singer. I've seen plenty of guys say how much they like SX live, on and away from these boards.

Don't make judgements that me being female has anything to do with my opinion on music. And maybe don't start a post with "That's got to be the woman's point of view..." unless you want a pissed off feminist on your hands.

 

Like I said, it's a logical assumption and not the sole reason one might like a band.  You don' t have to go around stomping your feet proclaiming your feminism to me.

Hell in this very thread other folks have mentioned how 'dreamy' Russell is.... so again it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that attraction plays a part in enjoyment.

P.S Are you the type of 'feminist' that thinks men and women should be entirely equal but gets offended when a man doesn't hold a door open for you or offer to pay for your meal?

Dude... not meaning to get all up myself, but I've been into progressive metal for eight years, playing music for 16 years, done a degree in music and written a first class dissertation on why progressive metal is such a sausage fest. I think I know enough about music to be able to ascertain whether I think a band's live show is good without basing it on whether I want to fuck them. The fact that you would link my opinion to my gender and sexuality is pretty backwards.

[Mindflux]

It's not beyond the realm of reasonable assumption that someone could enjoy a live show a bit more because they fancy one of the musicians, but you said "I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are" which is a huge assumption and pretty insulting. I would never presume that your reasoning behind enjoying a live show was that you're secretly gay and wanna fuck the lead singer. I've seen plenty of guys say how much they like SX live, on and away from these boards.

Don't make judgements that me being female has anything to do with my opinion on music. And maybe don't start a post with "That's got to be the woman's point of view..." unless you want a pissed off feminist on your hands.

 

Like I said, it's a logical assumption and not the sole reason one might like a band.  You don' t have to go around stomping your feet proclaiming your feminism to me.

Hell in this very thread other folks have mentioned how 'dreamy' Russell is.... so again it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that attraction plays a part in enjoyment.

P.S Are you the type of 'feminist' that thinks men and women should be entirely equal but gets offended when a man doesn't hold a door open for you or offer to pay for your meal?

Dude... not meaning to get all up myself, but I've been into progressive metal for eight years, playing music for 16 years, done a degree in music and written a first class dissertation on why progressive metal is such a sausage fest. I think I know enough about music to be able to ascertain whether I think a band's live show is good without basing it on whether I want to fuck them. The fact that you would link my opinion to my gender and sexuality is pretty backwards.

I didn't say you wanted to fuck any of them, I said you MAY find a member attractive.  Attraction does not always mean fucking.  You're getting all butt hurt over nothing.   I know I like some bands live shows more because there are female members in the band I think are attractive, but that doesn't mean I want to fuck them either, It just means I like the music and the additional eye candy isn't hurting the enjoyment factor either.

[nightmare_cinema]

No, you didn't say I 'may' find them attractive, you actually said:

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Obviously some intention is getting lost in translation. I get that you might enjoy a show more if you're attracted to someone on stage, but that doesn't happen for me.

I get the point you're trying to make, which isn't one I necessarily disagree with with regards to others.

[Jiangsu]

I maybe shouldn't bite, be... what the hell does me being a woman have to do with my opinion on Symphony X's live show?? I'm fairly sure I'm not the only fan out there that thinks they're amazing live.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Pretty huge assumptions you're making there, a) that I'm attracted to any of the members and b) that this would be the reason I enjoy watching them 

It's not hard to understand. If you are attracted to someone you are more prone to like more things about them.  I'm sure there have been plenty of studies on the psychology behind that.   

I'm sure there are plenty of people that think their live show is great, but I see a lot of GUYS in this thread stating a DVD or live viewing of the band would do nothing for them.  You like the show, you're a woman.. it stands to reason that ATTRACTION to a member of the band could be part of the reason you enjoy the show more.  It's just one theory, it's not the FINAL theory.

But if you have a theory about something, perhaps you should ask if its true rather than stating that it is, which is what you did. 

Your line of reasoning was 'You're a woman, you like their live show.  Some guys have said they dont like their live show, therefore you must find someone in the band attractive." That's not logic at work, it's just an assumption based on circumstances. 

There can be many reasons why a person enjoys a particular live performance or album. Nightmare_cinema already stated a preference for 'Iconoclast', which is pretty atypical for most folks around here, and certainly not the view I share, but that's what makes reading about other people's opinions interesting.  If we're going to simplify things by saying 'Well you only disagree with me because you're X which means you must think X' then discussions will quickly become very boring.

[Mindflux]

No, you didn't say I 'may' find them attractive, you actually said:

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Obviously some intention is getting lost in translation. I get that you might enjoy a show more if you're attracted to someone on stage, but that doesn't happen for me.

I get the point you're trying to make, which isn't one I necessarily disagree with with regards to others.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Yes, I say you MAY.  Maybe is not a definitive.

[Mindflux]

I maybe shouldn't bite, be... what the hell does me being a woman have to do with my opinion on Symphony X's live show?? I'm fairly sure I'm not the only fan out there that thinks they're amazing live.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Pretty huge assumptions you're making there, a) that I'm attracted to any of the members and b) that this would be the reason I enjoy watching them 

It's not hard to understand. If you are attracted to someone you are more prone to like more things about them.  I'm sure there have been plenty of studies on the psychology behind that.   

I'm sure there are plenty of people that think their live show is great, but I see a lot of GUYS in this thread stating a DVD or live viewing of the band would do nothing for them.  You like the show, you're a woman.. it stands to reason that ATTRACTION to a member of the band could be part of the reason you enjoy the show more.  It's just one theory, it's not the FINAL theory.

But if you have a theory about something, perhaps you should ask if its true rather than stating that it is, which is what you did. 

Your line of reasoning was 'You're a woman, you like their live show.  Some guys have said they dont like their live show, therefore you must find someone in the band attractive." That's not logic at work, it's just an assumption based on circumstances. 

There can be many reasons why a person enjoys a particular live performance or album. Nightmare_cinema already stated a preference for 'Iconoclast', which is pretty atypical for most folks around here, and certainly not the view I share, but that's what makes reading about other people's opinions interesting.  If we're going to simplify things by saying 'Well you only disagree with me because you're X which means you must think X' then discussions will quickly become very boring.

I said MAYBE she finds someone attractive.. I didn't say "YOU ARE A CHICK AND YOU MUST FIND A DUDE ATTRACTIVE TO HAVE ANY INTEREST IN THIS BAND LIVE". I provided a plausible assumption on why someone of the opposite gender might enjoy the band more than the bulk majority in this thread.    I never said it WAS the only explanation, I never said she wanted to fuck any of them. I stated nothing in absolutes.

[nightmare_cinema]

Actually, what you just said implies that it's a fact that you're not attracted to them and a fact that I am, but that fact 'may' have something to do with our enjoyment of the live shows.

If you wanted to discuss whether attraction was part of it you coulda said 'I wonder if attraction to band members plays a part in enjoyment of a live show?' which wouldn't presume that I (you're assuming I'm straight) am attracted, and guys (assuming every guy is straight) aren't.

[nightmare_cinema]

I maybe shouldn't bite, be... what the hell does me being a woman have to do with my opinion on Symphony X's live show?? I'm fairly sure I'm not the only fan out there that thinks they're amazing live.

"Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are."

Pretty huge assumptions you're making there, a) that I'm attracted to any of the members and b) that this would be the reason I enjoy watching them 

It's not hard to understand. If you are attracted to someone you are more prone to like more things about them.  I'm sure there have been plenty of studies on the psychology behind that.   

I'm sure there are plenty of people that think their live show is great, but I see a lot of GUYS in this thread stating a DVD or live viewing of the band would do nothing for them.  You like the show, you're a woman.. it stands to reason that ATTRACTION to a member of the band could be part of the reason you enjoy the show more.  It's just one theory, it's not the FINAL theory.

But if you have a theory about something, perhaps you should ask if its true rather than stating that it is, which is what you did. 

Your line of reasoning was 'You're a woman, you like their live show.  Some guys have said they dont like their live show, therefore you must find someone in the band attractive." That's not logic at work, it's just an assumption based on circumstances. 

There can be many reasons why a person enjoys a particular live performance or album. Nightmare_cinema already stated a preference for 'Iconoclast', which is pretty atypical for most folks around here, and certainly not the view I share, but that's what makes reading about other people's opinions interesting.  If we're going to simplify things by saying 'Well you only disagree with me because you're X which means you must think X' then discussions will quickly become very boring.

I said MAYBE she finds someone attractive.. I didn't say "YOU ARE A CHICK AND YOU MUST FIND A DUDE ATTRACTIVE TO HAVE ANY INTEREST IN THIS BAND LIVE". I provided a plausible assumption on why someone of the opposite gender might enjoy the band more than the bulk majority in this thread.    I never said it WAS the only explanation, I never said she wanted to fuck any of them. I stated nothing in absolutes.

""Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are.""

""you (as a woman) are""

You didn't say I "might" find someone attractive at all. Maybe worth dropping this now, I don't know if English is your first language or what but there's really nothing left to discuss on this, is there? Back to Symphony X!

[Mindflux]

Actually, what you just said implies that it's a fact that you're not attracted to them and a fact that I am, but that fact 'may' have something to do with our enjoyment of the live shows.

If you wanted to discuss whether attraction was part of it you coulda said 'I wonder if attraction to band members plays a part in enjoyment of a live show?' which wouldn't presume that I (you're assuming I'm straight) am attracted, and guys (assuming every guy is straight) aren't.

I never said I had factual evidence you are/were attracted to any members.   Using some of the examples below... "perhaps (aka maybe) being a female attracted to men could up your enjoyment level, versus a straight male who likes the music but not the live effort."

See:

may·be
[mey-bee]
adverb
1.
perhaps; possibly: Maybe I'll go too.
noun
2.
a possibility or uncertainty.

[Mindflux]

""Maybe it has to do with the fact I'm not attracted to any of the members (as a guy) and you (as a woman) are.""

""you (as a woman) are""

You didn't say I "might" find someone attractive at all. Maybe worth dropping this now, I don't know if English is your first language or what but there's really nothing left to discuss on this, is there? Back to Symphony X!

The word MAYBE by itself is the very definition of not talking in absolutes.  "maybe you find them attractive" means it's a possibility, not a certainty. "might" is about as far from an absolute as maybe is.  You're just using a different word for uncertainty.

[Jiangsu]

You did say the word 'maybe', but you also used the word 'fact'.  Do you need a dictionary definition to understand what that means?

[nightmare_cinema]

Um... you're purposefully ignoring anything that I'm saying, and resorting to using dictionary excerpts to try and back your point up, when I've already said I understand the point you were trying to make, you just worded it incorrectly (based on what your subsequent posts make it out to be). Chill bro.

[Mindflux]

You did say the word 'maybe', but you also used the word 'fact'.  Do you need a dictionary definition to understand what that means?

Yes. The fact that _I_ am not attracted to any members.  Did you miss the part where I said I'm not attracted to any of them?

[jingle.boy]

Mindflux... the way that sentence comes across, the "maybe" is tied to "the fact"... "the fact" being that n_c is attracted to the band.

Dude, whether you meant it that way originally and are now back pedaling, or legitimately did not mean to suggest n_c liked them live because of an attraction, is irrelevant at this point.  Right now, the only response required is 'I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way."  The more you're defending yourself and comments, the deeper you're digging yourself.

I'm just mostly pissed I've had 3 chances to see them live, and haven't taken advantage of any of them!

edit... ninja'd four times already!

[MoraWintersoul]

I'd be interested in reading your dissertation on why is prog metal such a sausage fest, but I bet the fact that us as women are constantly put under scrutiny/interrogated/doubted for liking something male-oriented is given more than a passing mention

Let me get it straight for the dude who still doesn't get it - for the most part, enjoying someone's live performance has really nothing to do with their physical appearance. And everyone says "sure, of course it doesn't" but then proceeds to assume I was at a show, or that I had a good time at a show, because the band has a hot guitarist.

I find Russell Allen incredibly attractive, but when I'm looking at SyX live recordings, I'm not thinking "holy shit is he hot or what", I'm thinking "holy shit is he belting out those notes or what".

Hey, and I really dig Iconoclast too, both discs equally, and would at worst give it an 8.5... Must be a girl thing

Edit: ninja'd as well.

[Jiangsu]

You did say the word 'maybe', but you also used the word 'fact'.  Do you need a dictionary definition to understand what that means?

Yes. The fact that _I_ am not attracted to any members.  Did you miss the part where I said I'm not attracted to any of them?

Perhaps you didn't mean to word things as you did, but it seemed from what you were saying that it was a fact that you didn't find them attractive and that nightmare did.  Maybe this isn't what you intended to say, but it was how I interpreted your comments and I hope that you can understand why they seemed a bit off to me.

Anyhow, this thread has been derailed enough now.  Time to get back to discussing Symphony X!

[jingle.boy]

hehe... girls using the term 'sausage-fest'.

I too would be interested in the SUMMARIZED version of that paper.

[nightmare_cinema]

I'd be interested in reading your dissertation on why is prog metal such a sausage fest, but I bet the fact that us as women are constantly put under scrutiny/interrogated/doubted for liking something male-oriented is given more than a passing mention

It's been a few years since I wrote it but I can always send you the text of it over if you PM me an email. Funnily enough that is literally the first time in years of being into DT/prog that anyone has suggested my gender is even noticed when it comes to being into the music. For the most part it's an incredibly respectful and entertaining community of fans (of the music, not just on this board) who are generally quite pleased to see more female involvement

[nightmare_cinema]

hehe... girls using the term 'sausage-fest'.

I too would be interested in the SUMMARIZED version of that paper.

I came up with the term 'ovulating buckets' the other day too, when my friend said he was 'cumming buckets' over a song

I don't have a summarized version, it's 11k words which is probably a bit lengthy for a casual read

[RuRoRul]

Bit of a surprise to see a page of that in this thread, but it beats a page of Iconoclast bashing.