Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

[OpenYourEyes311]

Waterfall (the song) reminds me a lot of Genesis' Entangled. Anyone else hear it?

Yes.

[The Letter M]

Waterfall (the song) reminds me a lot of Genesis' Entangled. Anyone else hear it?

Glad to hear that other early-pre-orderers got their albums signed!!! I wonder how many DTF'ers here were part of the First 100 to get theirs signed? At least 3 or 4 so far!

Preliminary short review: The opening track is gorgeous and has some tasty bass and drum parts, which excite me a lot, but the vocals are the star here. Having almost the whole band pitch in on vocals helps create some lush and beautiful vocal moments. The title track is just as good as it has been since the music video came out, and "Waterfall" is a unique, almost 4-man Genesis-era-sounding ballad brought in by Bill, which is quickly growing on me. "Agenda" is a funky rocker with an Marillion-esque chorus (not the first Marillion-sounding moment on this album for me, either, which isn't a bad thing), and I think this might be one of the shortest songs Neal has done on a major prog album in a long time!

"Alive Again"...hoo boy, another amazing epic by Neal, and I'd love to say more about this one, but it'll take a lot more listens for me to absorb the whole thing, but first impressions have been VERY good! I just hate that it FADES OUT with what sounds like an epic jam-out ending. I'm sure they'll rock it out in the live version, but this is twice in a row that Neal has done this (previously with TA's "Kaleidoscope"). I sure hope we get a decent live version on the eventual "Alive Again Tour" live album (a multi-disc EXTRAVAGANZA as Neal puts it).
EDIT - the drum groove in 6 that Mike does after the initial instrumental/overture is surprisingly new for Mike, not quite like any groove I've heard him do before, and it totally caught me by surprise on my first listen!!!

The bonus disc tunes are pretty good, especially "New Jerusalem", but the "MacArthur Park" cover is a huge stand-out for me, which takes the classic epic-length rock song and gives it a huge prog-twist. There's a part in the middle that sounds like Seasons End-era Marillion, but the band seem to take the song and own it, much like Yes had done with "America".

All 8 studio album tracks are great, and this will be on my playlist for the next month (at least until SW's album comes out and into my mailbox).

-Marc.

Had that thought 5 years ago!

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

Waterfall has always struck me as reminiscent of America or Little River Band, with those amazing harmonies.  I never got a Genesis vibe from it.

[Mladen]

I've never got the hype for Waterfall, the chorus is very middle-of-the road, and the rest of the song didn't stike me as particularly memorable. Which is strange, given that Neal does tremendous ballads most of the time.

But what do I know, I think Agenda is the best track on that album. 

[Fritzinger]

I've never got the hype for Waterfall, the chorus is very middle-of-the road, and the rest of the song didn't stike me as particularly memorable. Which is strange, given that Neal does tremendous ballads most of the time.

But what do I know, I think Agenda is the best track on that album. 

That's the weirdest thing I've heard this year

[gzarruk]

I've never got the hype for Waterfall, the chorus is very middle-of-the road, and the rest of the song didn't stike me as particularly memorable. Which is strange, given that Neal does tremendous ballads most of the time.

But what do I know, I think Agenda is the best track on that album. 

That's the weirdest thing I've heard this year

 

Agenda is my least favorite Neal Morse song ever. Hey ho let's go is up there too.

[Kwyjibo]

Agenda is a lot of quirky fun.

[Mladen]

I was so underwhelmed by the compositions on that album that the quirky, fun song turned out to be the highlight. 

[ronnibran]

I'll admit, the song Waterfall is one of the very few songs on a Neal album that I ALWAYS skip.  It just does nothing for me.  It might just be that one and Leviathan.  Can't think of any other ones I actively dislike.

[KevShmev]

Agenda is my least favorite Neal Morse song ever. Hey ho let's go is up there too.

So basically, it sounds like you don't like it when Neal writes songs that are fun, right?

[gmillerdrake]

I gave 'Agenda' it's fair shot to make the rotation.....say....10-15 listens. Never clicked....can't get in to it and think it's the worst NMB song every written. It's an immediate skip for me.

[gzarruk]

Agenda is my least favorite Neal Morse song ever. Hey ho let's go is up there too.

So basically, it sounds like you don't like it when Neal writes songs that are fun, right?

I don't like it when Neal writes songs that aren't good

I consider The Ways of a Fool and Thoughts Pt. 5 "fun" songs and I really like them, many songs on his SB albums would count here too,  but I just never liked either of the songs I mentioned on my previous post. Agenda is just really bad (IMO, of course) and Hey Ho Let's Go is a completely pointless song (again, IMO), though it might contribute to the album story...I'm not really sure since I haven't come back to TGA since it was released. Similitude grabbed me much more and I still love it, tho.

[KevShmev]

I prefer Similitude as well, and by a pretty wide margin, but The Great Adventure is still pretty damn good as well.  Similitude was the rare double album that never dipped in quality or had songs where I think, "they could have left that one out."  TGA had a handful of songs that while not bad, I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there.  But the best stuff on TGA is pretty awesome.

[Dedalus]

For me: Similitude> TGE> TGA

But considering the entire NM's career, TNMB is what I like least.

[Stadler]

I was in the car yesterday, and I put on "Supernatural" and I literally had goosebumps.  I love that song; I ended up replaying it four times in a row.   

And I bring it up because someone brought up the point of Neal writing "fun" songs. I think that is one of the more uplifting songs I've ever heard.

[OpenYourEyes311]

I was in the car yesterday, and I put on "Supernatural" and I literally had goosebumps.  I love that song; I ended up replaying it four times in a row.   

And I bring it up because someone brought up the point of Neal writing "fun" songs. I think that is one of the more uplifting songs I've ever heard.

For my money, it’s the best Neal Morse song. It was one of the biggest reasons I went to my only Morsefest (2017)... a chance to see it debuted when they did T2 in its “entirety.” I’m glad it wasn’t dropped along with “Absolute Beginner,” which I was disappointed they didn’t play because it’s another one of my faves. But seeing “Supernatural” made the trip worth it, for sure.

[KevShmev]

Yep, that performance of Supernatural at Morsefest was killer.  I think it's neat how the harmonies in the middle section are very much a call back to Spock's Beard's June, yet it is a totally different song.  I also loved the brief nod to The Water in Time Changer.  I might have to bust out T2 in its entirety this week now.

[Fritzinger]

I never paid much attention to Supernatural. Interesting to see it has quite a few fans. Will listen to it again I'm in such a Morse-binging phase right now 

[Mladen]

Supernatural sounds like filler to me and slightly drags down an otherwise great album. It's still Neal's best solo release, though.

[DTA]

Supernatural sounds like filler to me and slightly drags down an otherwise great album. It's still Neal's best solo release, though.

I wonder why Neal decided to tack on the 2nd disc to T2. Seeds of Gold is a pretty incredible song (and possibly his best solo release epic), and Supernatural and Absolute Beginner are good shorter tracks, but the songs feel like afterthoughts. From a business sense, I think it would've made more sense to make an entirely new album based around those songs.

Agenda is awesome and part of it reminds me of I Love It Loud by Kiss.

[Mladen]

I have a feeling Neal had Seeds of gold but realized he needs more stuff in order to put out a second disc, so he quickly made two more short tracks. Absolute beginner is the better of the two.

[gmillerdrake]

I prefer Similitude as well, and by a pretty wide margin, but The Great Adventure is still pretty damn good as well.  Similitude was the rare double album that never dipped in quality or had songs where I think, "they could have left that one out."  TGA had a handful of songs that while not bad, I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there.  But the best stuff on TGA is pretty awesome.

This is how I feel. SOAD for me doesn't have one 'weak' song......it's a perfect story. TGA has a couple songs that just aren't up to par and the story isn't as compelling. Great album and effort and it was amazing live.....but I give my nod to SOAD

[gzarruk]

I prefer Similitude as well, and by a pretty wide margin, but The Great Adventure is still pretty damn good as well.  Similitude was the rare double album that never dipped in quality or had songs where I think, "they could have left that one out."  TGA had a handful of songs that while not bad, I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there.  But the best stuff on TGA is pretty awesome.

This is how I feel. SOAD for me doesn't have one 'weak' song......it's a perfect story. TGA has a couple songs that just aren't up to par and the story isn't as compelling. Great album and effort and it was amazing live.....but I give my nod to SOAD

X3. TGA sounds a bit forced, as in "ok, we made this epic double concept album so now we have to make the sequel just as good " and it didn't work that well.

[Stadler]

I have a feeling Neal had Seeds of gold but realized he needs more stuff in order to put out a second disc, so he quickly made two more short tracks. Absolute beginner is the better of the two.

Weren't Seeds and Supernatural presented to Flying Colors for their consideration?  I don't know about Absolute Beginner, but it may have been just a matter of taking those three songs from a certain time, place and feel and putting them together.

Neal's never been short of material, so there's no need for him to "wait" for a full album, so to speak. 

[Stadler]

I listened to The Grand Experiment last night while working on the car, and the title track is the only song that didn't gel; at one point, during Alive Again, I stopped what I was doing and actively listened; what a strong track.  I love the harmonies on that album.

[The Letter M]

I have a feeling Neal had Seeds of gold but realized he needs more stuff in order to put out a second disc, so he quickly made two more short tracks. Absolute beginner is the better of the two.

Weren't Seeds and Supernatural presented to Flying Colors for their consideration?  I don't know about Absolute Beginner, but it may have been just a matter of taking those three songs from a certain time, place and feel and putting them together.

Neal's never been short of material, so there's no need for him to "wait" for a full album, so to speak.

Supernatural was indeed a demo that Neal presented for Flying Colors, and said demo was released on the Inner Circle release "Not For Flying Colors", which included 8 other demos, including "The Altar Of My Heart", a song that Neal also presented to Mike and Randy for inclusion on Momentum. I don't think Neal ever released the song officially, after having shopped it around to two of his bands, so I wonder if he'll ever record it properly?

As for Seeds Of Gold, Neal demoed it in the Fall of 2009, and later released that demo on the March 2010 IC disc. Seems like he later suggested it to Mike and Randy that year for inclusion on T2.

And Absolute Beginner? I'm not sure if/when Neal demoed that one. It could have been a song they wrote during those sessions, but it's been awhile since I've watched the Making Of Testimony 2, so I don't recall.

I feel like Neal had really wanted to include those three songs because, as stated above at least with two of them, he probably wanted to get them out and didn't feel like waiting to get another album out AFTER Testimony 2 for them. He sat on those songs for a year or two and, I guess, he figured since he had Mike and Randy in the studio for T2, that they would go ahead and release them with the main album. I think it's a nice addition to the album. Testimony 2's release always reminded me of Porcupine Tree's The Incident - you've got the main album with the core conceptual piece, then a 2nd disc with a few extra songs that, while great on their own, did not work with the conceptual stuff.

Now I really want to go back and watch the Making Of Testimony 2 to find out what really happened. Maybe Mike wanted them to do Seeds? Seems like something he might want to do.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I remember Portnoy at the time hyping up Seeds of Gold as one of the best epics Neal had ever written (and as much as he drools over Neal's music, like the rest of us , he rarely says stuff like that), so I am sure he pressed hard to get it out there and not sit on it, if in fact Neal was putting up any resistance in releasing it. I don't remember any chatter along those lines, but I haven't watched the making of T2 in years, so I can't say for sure.

[Kyo]

I actually watched the Making of Testimony 2 yesterday and they only cover the first CD. I've been reading a lot about this time, so I'm not quite sure where exactly I got this from, but if I remember correctly, the 2nd disc of T2 was recorded in January of 2011 around the time of the sessions for the first FC album (at least the drums for it), which would make it even more of a collection of Flying Colors leftovers (especially with Steve Morse guesting on Seeds of Gold). Unlike the first disc, which was handled by Rich Mouser, disc 2 was mixed by their long-time engineer Jerry Guidroz.

I've also wondered why they decided to add them to T2 on a rather short 2nd CD instead of building a separate album around them later. That "an album and a half" approach is weird and tends to contribute to material on the 2nd disc getting neglected.

[Kyo]

Ah, this is where I got this:
https://musicplayers.com/2011/06/neal-morse-interview-blew-away/

MPc: Can you tell me a little bit about Steve Morse’s involvement on the song “Seeds of Gold?”

NM: Well, when I originally wrote “Seeds” several years ago, I wrote it with Steve in mind. That’s why I put that long solo in there… so he could stretch out. Now, live, I’m the one who gets to stretch out!! It’s really cool. Anyway, when we got together in January to record for our project with Mike, Casey and Dave, we wound up having so much other material that we didn't do “Seeds” or “Supernatural,” and so I used them for T2, disc 2. I’m really happy the way things wound up, and I love Steve’s solo on “Seeds.”

[Kyo]

Btw, after watching the "making of" video for T2, I stand more than ever by my opinion that it was a mistake to shoehorn all those quotes from Testimony 1 into the sequel. They seem out of place as they serve no function within the songs and they seem unimaginative because they are so close to the way these themes and riffs were used on T1 rather than clever variations that you might not even notice at first. And since they were all added after the fact (after Mike complained about a lack of recurring themes), there aren't any cases where a T1 motif was the basis for a new song or anything like it. It's all just meaningless bits here and there that are entirely superfluous. In my opinion, they seem cheap, they disturb the flow of the album, and so overall they drag the whole thing down. I've disliked the album at the time and this was a big reason why.

In fact, I am going to attempt to extract those added T1 bits from the album and recreate what Neal had written originally. I don't have the T2 demos from the Inner Circle, so it'll be interesting if I can make it work and how close to the original demo I will get without a reference. 

[KevShmev]

Kyo, to touch on some of your points from your last few posts...

I don't agree regarding the brief T1 reprises in T2.  I think they are done very well. Rather than any of them ever overtaking the album, they are brief tips of the cap to the first Testimony album, and are done very tastefully, IMO.  It's like DT giving a nod to Metropolis with that little keyboard thing in The Dance of Eternity on Scenes.  Let the new album be its own thing, while giving a little nod to its predecessor.

I can't remember if I had read that about Seeds of Gold and Flying Colors, but while I have no doubt that Casey would have knocked it out of the park vocally, I am having trouble imagining which parts he would have sang and which parts would have been Neal's.  Hmmmm....

[gzarruk]

Sorry to post something completely different to what's being discussed, but I was just listening to At the End of the Day and, man, I really love that song, I think it's my favorite from Neal-era SB. Comparing it (and probably that whole era) with his current music is very interesting, it's clearly the same style/genere, but I feel like his writing was a lot freer/looser than it is now. It doesn't have to be a good or bad thing, I just think he wrote with less musical boundaries back then. Anyone else feel like this?

And I've said this before, but I think NDV's drumming compliments Neal's music much better than MP's.

[HOF]

Sorry to post something completely different to what's being discussed, but I was just listening to At the End of the Day and, man, I really love that song, I think it's my favorite from Neal-era SB. Comparing it (and probably that whole era) with his current music is very interesting, it's clearly the same style/genere, but I feel like his writing was a lot freer/looser than it is now. It doesn't have to be a good or bad thing, I just think he wrote with less musical boundaries back then. Anyone else feel like this?

And I've said this before, but I think NDV's drumming compliments Neal's music much better than MP's.

I personally have a really hard time connecting with Neal’s music since he left SB (including the last two TA albums, though I get along with Flying Colors well enough). I think a lot of it is just age and running low on interesting ideas (Neal has just made sooo much music). But a lot of things have subtly shifted for him stylistically as well.

I do agree about NDV, and I kind of think all of the guys in SB played a roll in grounding Neal’s music. Alan is an incredibly unique guitarist. Nick’s voice complemented Neal’s really well and his drumming is just less over the top (could say more tasteful) than MP’s*. Dave is such a professional player. Not that the guys Neal surrounds himself with these days aren’t great players, but they aren’t the same type of players as the guys in Spock’s either.

*not just picking on Mike here. There’s a noticeable difference with Jimmy’s drumming after Nick left too. NDV just has a style of his own that is so great.

[Fritzinger]

Kyo, to touch on some of your points from your last few posts...

I don't agree regarding the brief T1 reprises in T2.  I think they are done very well. Rather than any of them ever overtaking the album, they are brief tips of the cap to the first Testimony album, and are done very tastefully, IMO.  It's like DT giving a nod to Metropolis with that little keyboard thing in The Dance of Eternity on Scenes.  Let the new album be its own thing, while giving a little nod to its predecessor.

I can't remember if I had read that about Seeds of Gold and Flying Colors, but while I have no doubt that Casey would have knocked it out of the park vocally, I am having trouble imagining which parts he would have sang and which parts would have been Neal's.  Hmmmm....

I absolutely agree. I think the callbacks to T1 are very well done in T2. And I actually think they are variations from the way they were inserted into the first album.

Seeds Of Gold wouldn't have worked with Flying Colors in my opinion. It's a fantastic track, but Flying Colors is not the band to play 26 minute epics with.

[Stadler]

I'm with Fritzinger here (and I would include Supernatural here too).  It's what it is, and FC is what it is.  I think that was a great decision by all involved.