MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[bill1971]

I bet everyday the other guys are happy to be rid of the drama.

[bill1971]

Seems like James has no hard feelings to me.

K: OK, so yeah, most of that was written before you were in the band

J: Of course they wrote vocal lines, melody lines before you were… I mean, the only thing I altered was I made some suggestions melodically here and there you know, “This would be better sung like this”, “This would be better sung like that”, “That’s more you know, meoldic to me, what do you think?” and they were completely open. They were all about just, you know, “Yeah, let’s make it the best it can be, right?” I mean, that’s that’s what any album’s about, it’s not about “Hey what  about me? Don’t I get a say?” Ultimately, it has to come down to what are you trying to achieve? You’re trying to achieve the best, so put your freaking egos aside, you know, be a rational professional and approach it you know, properly, so that you get the best results and so that’s what it was with that too. But it was just, you know, I gotta tell you, Kim, it was just a great time because we were all thrilled, we were all excited, we were all extremely young, um, and freaking full of vigor and you know, enthusiasm, and fucking zest, and we were there all bout… you know, we were great friends you know, and we were comrades, and you know I think back to those moments, and Mike and I you know, were the best of friends, we hung out, shot the shit, laughed, had some drinks together but you know, I mean it was it was a really good moment in time. It really was.

https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/03/07/interview-with-james-labrie-by-dt-world/

James has actually said a lot of positive things about Mike since the split.  I don't think Mike has said one positive thing about James since then.

Even though Mangini has said nothing but nice things, Portnoy hasn't even called him by his name, at most the new drummer if anything at all. I thought they were friends.

Even though continues to dig his own grave, I feel bad for him. After 7 years you can tell he really regrets ever quitting and is unable to move on.

[ToT-147]

I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..

If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..

[Zook]

I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..

If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..

There are clear differences to the symbol.

[Peace and Love]

Anyway, there was the unsolicited Portnoy comment.  What a bizarre thing to post.

I think you need to take all the "unknown unknowns" into account here - there's probably you a lot of context and background information that you don't even know that you're ignoring, that if only you knew you knew, you would treat this comment of MP's very differently.

I'm sure he has a good reason for posting this comment out of the blue, not that he's bitter or angry or anything.

[ToT-147]

I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..

If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..

There are clear differences to the symbol.

Mmm, they aren't to me, or not the enough to say that the symbol was "changed" or it isn't "correct" anymore.. I barely see a slight difference in the DT12 symbol (which is the only one that can be seen without any difficulty) -the three vertical lines are longer-, but in any way so significant that would represent such bigger diffference as some of the previous MP-era symbols; meaning: they weren't ALL exactly the same either..

[Madman Shepherd]

Anyway, there was the unsolicited Portnoy comment.  What a bizarre thing to post.

I think you need to take all the "unknown unknowns" into account here - there's probably you a lot of context and background information that you don't even know that you're ignoring, that if only you knew you knew, you would treat this comment of MP's very differently.

I'm sure he has a good reason for posting this comment out of the blue, not that he's bitter or angry or anything.

Excellent point.   

I guess we should let this guy have the last word:

[Stadler]

Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?




'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.

See, here we go again.  Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!

He's not doing anything of the sort.  He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize".  Those are YOUR words.   The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice.  You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.   

And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos.    Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock.  You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.

[Zook]

Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."

But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".

[Stadler]

Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."

But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".

Well, let's be fair.  Peace and Love's post read vaguely like sarcasm, but it's the point I have been making for a while.

Where did he say any of those things in his post?  You either take him at face value or you don't.  But you don't get to malign every tweet to your world view of him.   It's the same with Donald Trump these days.   Mike (and Donald) have said enough things to criticize them about without having to make shit up about them to justify your world view.   

Would I have made the post to begin with?  Probably not.   Or I would have worded it differently.  But given that he did post it, I don't see how you can read SOME things into it but not all of them.   It makes no sense to me.

[cramx3]

And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos.    Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock.  You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.

Then what do you take of the "or if they just don't realize it as they never dealt with artwork and merchandise before..."  If, as in your examples, the entities are typically on top of their logos then isn't that a shot at DT by saying that? 

I've honestly been confused by that remark.  I *think* he is just trying to clarify what that logo actually is (as in, it's the older logo) but at the same time, I can't tell if he is adding a side jab to DT in the process because of the wording.  And that's where people start interpreting the passive aggressiveness.

[Zook]

Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?




'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.

See, here we go again.  Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!

He's not doing anything of the sort.  He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize".  Those are YOUR words.   The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice.  You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.   

And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos.    Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock.  You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.

"Not sure if it was intentionally changed"

To my eyes it's very different. The top and bottom pillars are stretched making the change very apparent, and the middle section of the logo is now evenly centered.

"Or they just don't realize it as they never dealt with the artwork, etc"

How is this not questioning their intelligence? The DT guys have played together for 25 years, and because Mike dealt with all the artwork and shit, the other guys just didn't care, didn't look at the t-shirts, album covers, anything? How can you not notice a change to your own band's logo? So what, the guys just hired some random asshole to do their artwork and didn't even look at it? I'll give the Hugh Syme shit a pass, 'cause those watermarks are hard to see, but still unacceptable.

And they still used the original logo on ADTOE.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.

[Ravenfoul]

Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.

[cramx3]

Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.

I didn't notice until this comment    But I don't have an eye for detail like that

[Zook]

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.

It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.

[Mosh]

Can we rename this to the Analyze Portnoy Social Media thread?

Stadler, did you notice when Maiden changed their logo in the 90s. I never really understood that change, but in the 00s they were using it to distinguish their "nostalgia" tours. Of course they went back to the classic logo for TBOS. Anyway it's very similar to what DT did, a slight subtle change that many don't even notice.

 I don't think Kiss has changed at all (minus different colors and the German logo).

[bill1971]

Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."

But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".

Well, let's be fair.  Peace and Love's post read vaguely like sarcasm, but it's the point I have been making for a while.

Where did he say any of those things in his post?  You either take him at face value or you don't.  But you don't get to malign every tweet to your world view of him.   It's the same with Donald Trump these days.   Mike (and Donald) have said enough things to criticize them about without having to make shit up about them to justify your world view.   

Would I have made the post to begin with?  Probably not.   Or I would have worded it differently.  But given that he did post it, I don't see how you can read SOME things into it but not all of them.   It makes no sense to me.

Mike should defiantly hire you for damage control. Kellyanne Conway should call you for advice. As others have said it's not that he noticed that the symbol has changed(correct or not) but that he has to make the comment that the others wouldn't know. Like the 4 of them are wandering around aimlessly until he returns to rescue them. It's also tooting his own horn saying how he handled all the artwork and merchandise in the past and now that the other guys are, they don't even realize what the symbol looks like.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.

It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.

The way I see it is

A) The logo changed, but evidently it was fairly subtle since nobody noticed (and we're something of an obsessive bunch ).
B) The first explanation he offered is that they changed it intentionally (which I think is almost certainly the case).
C) It's theoretically possible that the logo was altered by whatever artist they were working with and the guys didn't notice. Like I mentioned in A, it's something that a board full of fans never noticed, so if the band was looking more at the overall designs/artworks and not expecting the logo to change, that they didn't notice. I don't think it necessarily reflects poorly on them, I'm sure there are lots of bands who aren't as OCD about their merch and such as MP is/was.

I think there are plenty of things he says online that are unnecessary/in poor taste, this just didn't strike me as one of them.

[devieira73]

Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.

I'm not seeing that too. Help, anyone?
In Iron Maiden's case, I never noticed until now, wow! Very interesting

[bill1971]

Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.

I'm not seeing that too. Help, anyone?
In Iron Maiden's case, I never noticed until now, wow! Very interesting

Sort of, kind of....

[Mosh]

Also it's very possible that DT haven't noticed. They didn't take an active role in that stuff when MP was in the band and maybe handed that part off to management. It's not unusual for the band to take a hands off approach to the artwork. The sleeve design concept of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is credited to Derek Riggs (the artist) and Rod Smallwood (the manager). The Maiden guys had nothing to do with it. Very possible that it's the same in DT world. In fact, I'd say it's probably unusual for anyone to be as involved in the artwork as Portnoy was.

[ronnibran]

All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members.  Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo.  Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs.  As long as DT are doing what they feel best for the music, I don't care if they aren't paying attention to something so minute that only MP and a handful of people would ever notice.  (not implying they don't care or aren't paying attention, just saying if this "is" the case).

[Madman Shepherd]

All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members.  Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo.  Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. 

Bingo.  That's why it's bizarre.  I can't fathom how people can't see that. 

He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts.  This is priceless!  Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"

buuuuuuuuuut....

...he didn't.  And what he said was weird. 

[ToT-147]

All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members.  Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo.  Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. 

Bingo.  That's why it's bizarre.  I can't fathom how people can't see that. 

He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts.  This is priceless!  Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"

buuuuuuuuuut....

...he didn't.  And what he said was weird.

All of this.. And, exactly due to all of this is why I do think his comment was

unnecessary/in poor taste

[MirrorMask]

All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members.  Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo.  Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. 

Bingo.  That's why it's bizarre.  I can't fathom how people can't see that. 

He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts.  This is priceless!  Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"

buuuuuuuuuut....

...he didn't.  And what he said was weird.

Geez. I really didn't find his comment that bad. But now that I've read your version, I cannot un-read it and I agree it's better 

[ariich]

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.

It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.

The way I see it is

A) The logo changed, but evidently it was fairly subtle since nobody noticed (and we're something of an obsessive bunch ).
B) The first explanation he offered is that they changed it intentionally (which I think is almost certainly the case).
C) It's theoretically possible that the logo was altered by whatever artist they were working with and the guys didn't notice. Like I mentioned in A, it's something that a board full of fans never noticed, so if the band was looking more at the overall designs/artworks and not expecting the logo to change, that they didn't notice. I don't think it necessarily reflects poorly on them, I'm sure there are lots of bands who aren't as OCD about their merch and such as MP is/was.

I think there are plenty of things he says online that are unnecessary/in poor taste, this just didn't strike me as one of them.

This so much.

For those who think it was a jab at DT, if it turned out that it wasn't intentional and DT didn't notice, do you honestly feel that this suggests a lack of intelligence or care from DT?

[Zook]

Considering it's the band's logo of 30 years, yeah, for them not to notice would be ridiculous. I can't believe that to be the case.

[mikeyd23]

All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members.  Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo.  Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. 

Bingo.  That's why it's bizarre.  I can't fathom how people can't see that. 

He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts.  This is priceless!  Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"

buuuuuuuuuut....

...he didn't.  And what he said was weird.

Exactly, it's the usual problem - what he says isn't really that bad, it's totally how he says it.

[ToT-147]

For those who think it was a jab at DT, if it turned out that it wasn't intentional and DT didn't notice, do you honestly feel that this suggests a lack of intelligence or care from DT?

Maybe I don't, but Mike's comment would still be out of place.. Again, it doesn't matter what actually happened, the thing that bother us is his weird behavior; like he's trying to provoke the DT guys, or at least some DT fans and/or MP haters with that kind of comments..

[Stadler]

And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos.    Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock.  You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.

Then what do you take of the "or if they just don't realize it as they never dealt with artwork and merchandise before..."  If, as in your examples, the entities are typically on top of their logos then isn't that a shot at DT by saying that? 

I've honestly been confused by that remark.  I *think* he is just trying to clarify what that logo actually is (as in, it's the older logo) but at the same time, I can't tell if he is adding a side jab to DT in the process because of the wording.  And that's where people start interpreting the passive aggressiveness.

I don't at all consider that a "shot".  They DIDN'T deal with the artwork and the merchandise.  It's a well-documented fact.  Even in the LaBrie quotes that most don't think say what I think they say, he is clear:  MIKE handled that stuff.   

I'm with you in being confused by the statement (and I looked; I can't for the life of me see the difference, at least not a difference that wasn't in play BEFORE the split, since there seemed to be some evolution of the symbol pre-2010) but it's not another shot at DT, in my opinion. 

[Stadler]

Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?




'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.

See, here we go again.  Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!

He's not doing anything of the sort.  He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize".  Those are YOUR words.   The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice.  You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.   

And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos.    Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock.  You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.

"Not sure if it was intentionally changed"

To my eyes it's very different. The top and bottom pillars are stretched making the change very apparent, and the middle section of the logo is now evenly centered.

"Or they just don't realize it as they never dealt with the artwork, etc"

How is this not questioning their intelligence? The DT guys have played together for 25 years, and because Mike dealt with all the artwork and shit, the other guys just didn't care, didn't look at the t-shirts, album covers, anything? How can you not notice a change to your own band's logo? So what, the guys just hired some random asshole to do their artwork and didn't even look at it? I'll give the Hugh Syme shit a pass, 'cause those watermarks are hard to see, but still unacceptable.

And they still used the original logo on ADTOE.

"Not noticing" is not at all the same thing as "not being intelligent".  I'm the smartest guy here (I'm kidding, I'm joking, but I'm certainly not "dumb"), and I miss things all the time.   Jingle put a wink emoji in a post and I missed it TWICE, even when I went back and looked for it specifically. 

You've never misplaced your keys and realized they were right on the table in front of you.  Are you "not intelligent"?  Have you ever looked at the same thing every day for ten years and not realized when there has been a subtle change to it?   Are you therefore "not intelligent"?    I would even offer that it's remotely possible that it's the OPPOSITE; you've never seen the caricature of the brilliant scientist that doesn't notice his shirt is buttoned up wrong?   You've never watched "The Big Bang Theory", a show PREDICATED on veritable geniuses missing everyday shit that the rest of us - dummies - see? 

C'mon, man.  You're really reading stuff into it to see it as a dig on their intelligence. 

[goo-goo]

The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.

[goo-goo]

Back on topic.

Man, would love to see the show in NY. Shows seems to be full of energy. Will have to see if I can make it that week.

[SwedishGoose]

Back on topic.

Man, would love to see the show in NY. Shows seems to be full of energy. Will have to see if I can make it that week.

Do whatever you have to in order to go.... it's a fantastic show!!!