Coronavirus

[Phoenix87x]

Just got the test for active covid. Holy shit, they go DEEP, lol

Will know the results in a few days

[Harmony]

Being in an area that was hit harder, I don't like the tendency some people have taken of "see, it's not that bad!"
Yes, not as bad as some of the most dire predictions which were also founded on the assumption that we would "do nothing".

"Not that bad" after 2 months of society at 75% isolation, with most schools, offices, retailers, sporting events, movie theaters closed.
We will NEVER know what would have happened had people not made that sacrifice.

Now, as things reopen, people still have to be smart, and make the right decisions for them before going out and mixing with a bunch of people.
This is not over. Do not devalue the sacrifice you have made over the last two months, or act like it was all in vain. Again, we DO NOT know what would have happened without people making the right decisions. We do NOT know what will happen as we move toward reopening.

My heart goes out to all the unemployed and the business owners who are suffering. The response to COVID has not been perfect. Maybe we could have started sooner with less aggressive measures. Maybe we could have been more fair to small mom and pop stores instead of just shutting down everything but the big box chains. There are countless problems that need to be addressed and will need to continue to be addressed over the next year. I hope that these are addressed and as many people as possible are made whole.

The response may have failed many. In the future, all we will learn about are the concrete ways in which the response failed, and we will never be able to be certain about just how successful it was, or what was avoided. A response that failed many is not the same thing as an unsuccessful response, don't think for a second that the sacrifices you made and will continue to make meant nothing!

Excellent post.

Though I'd say we might have an example of what would've happened had we not made the sacrifices and done the hard work (doing the hard work).  Look at Brazil.

[emtee]

Many solid points made here.

I just look so forward to when this isn't an all consuming 24/7, inescapable situation.We have such a short attention span and the news cycle--even for mega stories--usually lasts about a week before something else comes along. This has been full-on for well over 2 months now.

[The Walrus]

It's gonna be longer than 2 months. My money is on another wave in the fall that's just as bad if not worse. Winter's gonna get interesting.

[Stadler]

Hard to keep up with the changing "science" for this beast. Now the CDC says it doesn't transmit easily via surfaces. Initially it was heavy droplets that fell pretty rapidly. That opinion changed multiple times also. Another story claims that sheltering in place and not getting outside created a worst case scenario in NY at the peak of outbreak. There's a growing number of physicians that claim masks are not only useless but they actually make things worse.

Studies often take years of data and discussions with peers before a consensus is reached. And often different techniques/approaches showing the same phenomenon are required. What you see now is simply everyone wanting an answer where there are no (definitive) answers yet. Our experts have mostly used language that clearly indicates that (My hypothesis is, I am skeptical that, our data indicates etc.), but media often does a poor job in translating science to news articles. The actual publications of the scientists themselves almost always address all the potential limitations and research gaps. And usually I believe the media really should focus on published, peer-reviewed data, not only a scientist/doctor speaking his/her mind in an interview (though that is not a bad thing, expert opinions/predictions/insights matter). But I appreciate this is not always an option, as decisions have to be made right now.

DECISIONS do, but not final conclusions.   One of the basic tenets of crisis management - and we are in a crisis, it seems - is to continue to collect information in real time, only make those decisions that you absolutely have to WHEN you absolutely have to, and revisit the information that led to those decisions as frequently as is reasonable given the circumstances.   

Some people - on both sides - seem intent on arriving at grand conclusions and we're not even done with the crisis yet.   The post mortem can wait until the crime scene has been secured, roped off, and all evidence collected.

Yes, I agree. Though "when you absolutely have to" differs per person as well, depending on how data is interpreted and what degree of risk is deemed acceptable.

I do not know what you mean with both sides, however. Politically?

Yes, since it seems that for some, the reaction to the crisis seems to be about political boundaries as much as human ones. 

[Skeever]

It's gonna be longer than 2 months. My money is on another wave in the fall that's just as bad if not worse. Winter's gonna get interesting.

Yup, I'll be working from home until Sept apparently.
I don't like it very much, to be honest. It's not as great as I thought it would be. I miss everything else more than I like working from home.

But while my company is telling me not to come in, I feel like I owe it to that privilege to be just as cautious in other ways. Perhaps I am part of a diminishing number of people who will be paid to stay at home on Zoom meetings all day. I am relatively young and healthy. I wouldn't feel unsafe mixing with the population and living my life as normal. But while I have the privilege to work at home I feel an obligation not to squander it by going out and mixing with people for any other reasons than getting food, doctors/vet vists, and essential supplies.

[Stadler]

I am fine if you don't want to qualify the response just yet, but it is just as wrong to characterize the nature and deadly potential of the virus while ignoring what role the response has played in making it appear much less threatening than what many in the media were predicting. My point is that there will be plenty of concrete reasons to chip away people's confidence that they did they right thing by staying in and canceling plans and making other sacrifices. We will never have anything but speculation and models telling us what scenarios we avoided, how much worse these things would have been than what we actually did experience, or whether other things could have been done earlier to make any sort of drastic response fully unnecessary. The country is now reopening and I really do hope as many people are made whole as possible.

And the key word is "speculation".  I get that this may be naive, but so be it.   If we know that "speculation" is problematic, why engage in it?   I work, largely, in risk management, and I've had to deal with this phenomenon for decades; "forecasting" what didn't happen.  And it's futile, in the long run.   Did that lawsuit not get filed because of my outstanding, well-crafted letter, or because of an executive decision by someone in their company that didn't even know my letter existed?  During my annual review, it was that friggin' letter, to be sure.   The reality?  Who knows? 

This same principle applies to "making people whole".  Sure, compassion says that no one should bear harm that they didn't cause, but that's not the world we live in.  What then is foreseeable?   Are all jobs the same in terms of predictability of income?  What about other things, like investments or 401(k)s?  Should everyone be whole there, too? 

[Orbert]

Just got the test for active covid. Holy shit, they go DEEP, lol

Will know the results in a few days

I've heard that the test is a "nasal swab".  That sounds harmless enough, but I've also heard it referred to as "tickling your brain via your nostrils".  So yeah, that sounds pretty damned invasive.  A small price to pay to find out whether or not you have a deadly virus, but... damn.  It seems like there'd be a less invasive way to get a mucus sample.

[bosk1]

...but... damn.  It seems like there'd be a less invasive way to get a mucus sample.

Have you even seen Ghostbusters?

[jammindude]

My wife got that on Tuesday and she said it hurt for a full day after. They have you tilt your head back and go all the way through your sinuses and into the back of your throat.

[ErHaO]

Hard to keep up with the changing "science" for this beast. Now the CDC says it doesn't transmit easily via surfaces. Initially it was heavy droplets that fell pretty rapidly. That opinion changed multiple times also. Another story claims that sheltering in place and not getting outside created a worst case scenario in NY at the peak of outbreak. There's a growing number of physicians that claim masks are not only useless but they actually make things worse.

Studies often take years of data and discussions with peers before a consensus is reached. And often different techniques/approaches showing the same phenomenon are required. What you see now is simply everyone wanting an answer where there are no (definitive) answers yet. Our experts have mostly used language that clearly indicates that (My hypothesis is, I am skeptical that, our data indicates etc.), but media often does a poor job in translating science to news articles. The actual publications of the scientists themselves almost always address all the potential limitations and research gaps. And usually I believe the media really should focus on published, peer-reviewed data, not only a scientist/doctor speaking his/her mind in an interview (though that is not a bad thing, expert opinions/predictions/insights matter). But I appreciate this is not always an option, as decisions have to be made right now.

DECISIONS do, but not final conclusions.   One of the basic tenets of crisis management - and we are in a crisis, it seems - is to continue to collect information in real time, only make those decisions that you absolutely have to WHEN you absolutely have to, and revisit the information that led to those decisions as frequently as is reasonable given the circumstances.   

Some people - on both sides - seem intent on arriving at grand conclusions and we're not even done with the crisis yet.   The post mortem can wait until the crime scene has been secured, roped off, and all evidence collected.

Yes, I agree. Though "when you absolutely have to" differs per person as well, depending on how data is interpreted and what degree of risk is deemed acceptable.

I do not know what you mean with both sides, however. Politically?

Yes, since it seems that for some, the reaction to the crisis seems to be about political boundaries as much as human ones.

Ah, okay. Yeah, that is true. Politicians do need to get to decisions and they need to base their decisions on something. But some will push their agenda's without proper regard for evidence. But I wasn't aiming at that issue in my original post, I was talking more about why the claims of the medical/scientific community seem to be full of contradictions/reconsiderations.

[Stadler]

My wife got that on Tuesday and she said it hurt for a full day after. They have you tilt your head back and go all the way through your sinuses and into the back of your throat.

And yet.... my wife had surgery yesterday and had to be tested on Monday in advance.  They did not stick the swab up her nose.    It was still uncomfortable, but it was through her mouth to the back of her throat.   (Her's was negative; maybe that's why there are so many false negatives; they didn't know how to do the test!)

[romdrums]

Just curious, if we started calling all buff black dudes Tyrone or all Mexicans Carlos, would that be as accepted as calling all uppity white women Karens or calling anybody over the age of 40 a boomer? Or is it only okay 'cause... because?

Karen isn't a descriptor of someone's race, culture, nationality, age, or religion. It is a descriptor based on their actions and attitude (and hairstyle). I read an article about how it was sexist. But it seemed like the author is the type of person who thinks everything is sexist, so I took it with a grain of salt.

It's only ever applied to white women, though, so it is. It's a general descriptor. It's exactly like a bigoted white person expressing their disdain for black people and using the word 'Tyrone' or 'Jamal' in their screeds. Karen specifically refers to white women. Find any article that talks about "Karens" - it's always a white woman. It's not okay no matter how you slice it, that's my point, it just causes more problems than it solves (which is nothing) because it devolves into namecalling.

Would you like to speak to a manager?   

[Dublagent66]

My wife got that on Tuesday and she said it hurt for a full day after. They have you tilt your head back and go all the way through your sinuses and into the back of your throat.

I thought they significantly improved the test so that it's not nearly as invasive and uncomfortable.   

[cramx3]

My wife got that on Tuesday and she said it hurt for a full day after. They have you tilt your head back and go all the way through your sinuses and into the back of your throat.

I thought they significantly improved the test so that it's not nearly as invasive and uncomfortable.   

Gov Cuomo took a test on TV the other day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaOokzDnsic that goes pretty far up your nose.  I think because he's probably gotten the test many times, it's not as discomforting for him.  I don't recall my mother complaining about the test though.  I'm sure it's a different sensation for everyone.  I get the feeling I would not like it but I dont think it would stop me from getting it if needed.

[Phoenix87x]

I've heard that the test is a "nasal swab".  That sounds harmless enough, but I've also heard it referred to as "tickling your brain via your nostrils".  So yeah, that sounds pretty damned invasive.  A small price to pay to find out whether or not you have a deadly virus, but... damn.  It seems like there'd be a less invasive way to get a mucus sample.

Boy, do I wish it was just a swab 

Got it 6 hours ago and it still feels a little weird. It was like the stick was a dipstick and they were checking my oil. It goes WAY down. and stayed there for like 15 seconds.

But despite my bitching, I totally agree its a small price to pay to get a result. I've been short of breath and coughing violently for the past few days, so it was well worth it.

[mike099]

Just got the test for active covid. Holy shit, they go DEEP, lol

Will know the results in a few days

At least the test was not anal.

I thought the tests only took a few minutes for results.

[TAC]

My wife got the throat swab.







Easy guys.

[Cool Chris]

I've administered 7 throat swabs today.

[Indiscipline]

 

ViVid19

[The Walrus]

 

I like how Tim knew it was coming.









Giggity.

[lonestar]

 

[Northern Lion]

Oh boy

 

[a51502112]

Just got the test for active covid. Holy shit, they go DEEP, lol

Will know the results in a few days

At least the test was not anal.

I thought the tests only took a few minutes for results.

Don't know how long it takes now, but my Son had it done 3 weeks ago and results took 6 days.

[Phoenix87x]

At least the test was not anal.

I thought the tests only took a few minutes for results.

Don't know how long it takes now, but my Son had it done 3 weeks ago and results took 6 days.

That's pretty much what they said to me. Like 3-7 days depending on how busy the lab is at the moment. I know a lot of Emergency rooms have the faster test, but there's a lot more of the longer tests still in circulation.

I'm very curious to see the result since I have never had a fever at all, and feel great but have the nasty dry cough and shortness of breath.

[Stadler]

It depends what you need it for; my wife's was 48 hours, to keep the window between "test" and "procedure" to a minimum, and my boss - who is going in for minor surgery next Thursday - is getting his done Tuesday. 

[The Walrus]

So wait, can someone explain this to me? When Joe Rogan has a guest come in to do his podcast, they have them tested for COVID-19. Yet it seems to be instant, like, the doctor does it right there and then they just do the podcast a few minutes later. What are they doing that gives them instant results whereas you guys have to wait a week? Is it like a blood sample and they're able to see it right there?

[Stadler]

Is it a full COVID test, or just temperature?   As I understand it (and I'm not suggesting I DO understand it) there are test kits out there, but it's also my understanding (AINSIDUI) that their accuracy leaves something to be desired.

[The Walrus]

Is it a full COVID test, or just temperature?   As I understand it (and I'm not suggesting I DO understand it) there are test kits out there, but it's also my understanding (AINSIDUI) that their accuracy leaves something to be desired.

I would assume a full test because at the start of almost every podcast Joe says something to the effect of, "[guest name], what's up? Tested for corona, you don't have it" etc. and he addressed it a month ago saying he wouldn't be using the test kits if there was a shortage in his area of LA, but I don't know what those test kits involve. In yesterday's episode he realized a few minutes after starting the podcast that they didn't test the guest, they stopped the show, and when they resumed, not much time had passed, it was done right there and they found out he didn't have COVID.

[cramx3]

I'm aware there are quick tests but I don't think those are readily available.  If you go to a test site you are likely getting the older test that takes a few days to get results.  I think we will see more of the faster test but it's not out there abundantly.  At least that's my understanding. 

[Harmony]

There are instant test kits out there - that's what Trump uses every day IIRC.  I'm also pretty sure they are the ones that have the most false negative and false positive rates.

[Phoenix87x]

There are two tests:  one for active covid and one for covid anti-bodies (neither involve taking you temperature)

Active covid involves them jamming the thing down your nose and results can be gotten in 30mins if its the more advanced test OR can be up to 5 days if its the older test. Different places have different tests.

Antibody test- They takes some of your blood and you get the results in 20 mins. This test shows if you your immune system has made anti bodies to fight the infection, basically shows if you had Covid and got over it. It DOES not test for active Covid and overall is a limited test.

*I got the antibody test on tuesday and it was negative, still felt crappy and work told me to go home and get the active test and don't come back until I am cleared.

I do not know what test Rogan is using, but considering none of the guests commented about how weird it felt to get something shoved down your nose, it would make me thing he's doing the blood test, but I don't know for sure.

[The Walrus]

Ahh, that must be it, then. Thanks Phoenix!

[Phoenix87x]

No problem

It took me awhile to really wrap my head around it. There's a lot more too it all then I originally thought 

[bosk1]

And with a lot of tests, just like any other lab tests you would get, it isn't necessarily a factor of how much time the test itself takes; it is more a factor of lab tech availability to do whatever is necessary to process it.