Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[Delirious Nomad]

Am I wrong or does Petrucci start looking like Billy Joel ?
Possibly a face manifestation of acquiring songwriting levels.

[rush-signals]

I think of this photo when I hear the end of IT.



or this

[jayvee3]

Just a few random thoughts..

The one opinion that is surprising me a little, is many peoples indifference to FAS. It was always slated as an album and concert opener, and I think it kicks off the cinematic feel perfectly. Not to mention adds a great deal of atmosphere to TEI, making an impact sounding one-two punch..

Enigma machine is good. Nay, real good. Like any DT music, songs can take a while to sink in, but for anyone not feeling it, just go have a listen to SOC again.. Good main riff, but a lot of filler, and longer than it needs to be. EM however, is shorter, and now some of the melodies have sunk in, always interesting. The slower bit is very COTTuscany too..

I like the Easter egg music a lot, but not entirely sure it necessary to make it a song by itself. It's very Far From Heaven sounding, so I just feel it serves it's purpose already as the 'closing credits' moment of the album..

Overall, just a beast of an album. Some of the best songs and riffs going round, and IT is as fine an epic as any. The orchestra and outtro are amazing, and I actually love the changeup back to the heavier section - it's like 'yep, we can do beautiful, but in a split second, we're gonna change tact and melt your face bitcheees.. ;-) Seriously amazing all round!

[commanderbob]

My thoughts after a couple of days now:

This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard.  This is very, very special.  This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for.  Well see in a year or so how this shakes out, but it definitely is in the DT pantheon.  So many great moments.  So many many memorable melodies that, when I think of them, my emotions get strongly stirred.  Goosebumps and tears stirred. 

And no, I don't usually feel like this when a new album comes out.  I always love hearing their new stuff, and am content and happy with the couple of new classics from my fav band.  But this whole thing (less FAS) is classic.

[Lucien]

This is the first album I've ever heard by them that there isn't a single song on the album I want to skip. They're ALL strong, in stark contrast with many of their albums.

[Mebert78]

My thoughts after a couple of days now:

This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard.  This is very, very special.  This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for. 

I agree, man.  I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album.  I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album.  It kicked open the door for progressive metal.  This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically.  This will be what the Black album is to Metallica.  DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds.  I firmly believe that. 

And they deserve the added spotlight that this album could potentially bring.  This is an immensely talented band with a rich history that should be performing in arenas on a nightly basis.

[ResultsMayVary]

My thoughts after a couple of days now:

This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard.  This is very, very special.  This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for. 

I agree, man.  I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album.  I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album.  It kicked open the door for progressive metal.  This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically.  This will be what the Black album is to Metallica.  DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds.  I firmly believe that.

Couldn't agree more. That was a great way to describe it.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

It's interesting to me that a lot of people aren't liking "Enigma Machine". I love it. It's so cartoony, especially the riffing. It's got a unique feel to it.

There's a couple of riffs in there that remind me of LTE.

[dongringo]

My thoughts after a couple of days now:

This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard.  This is very, very special.  This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for. 

I agree, man.  I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album.  I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album.  It kicked open the door for progressive metal.  This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically.  This will be what the Black album is to Metallica.  DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds.  I firmly believe that.

Couldn't agree more. That was a great way to describe it.

I'm in the same boat as you all. This is a very special album and a great achievement in their career. A stunning level of mature songwriting and musicianship I didn't think they would actually get to.

[Zyzzyva17]

As an aspiring composer myself, here's what I would have done differently in Illumination Theory

1. Make the first riff at 1:20 come in with a bang (like in BITS) instead of starting in the background.
2. Remove the section from 3:09-3:20, so the section before goes straight into the one after.
3. Shorten the ambient section to 20-30 seconds.
4. Add a ridiculous unison/harmony (like the one at the end of the Outcry instrumental) leading up to the arrival of "Surrender, Trust, Passion" at 15:19.
5. Include a reprise of the orchestral theme in the final guitar solo.

But really, it's a magnificent song as it is.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I think that one of the things that helps us appreciate this album more is the duration of the songs. Aside from IT, all the others are remarkably short in DT´s standards, and I think it keeps them fresh and not tiring to go through. I can´t remember another DT album where I was left wanting more at the end of each track and yet excited that another one was coming up.

[sueño]

I'm so glad this will be my first DT album!   

[JPX]

My thoughts after a couple of days now:

This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard.  This is very, very special.  This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for. 

I agree, man.  I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album.  I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album.  It kicked open the door for progressive metal.  This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically.  This will be what the Black album is to Metallica.  DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds.  I firmly believe that. 

And they deserve the added spotlight that this album could potentially bring.  This is an immensely talented band with a rich history that should be performing in arenas on a nightly basis.

By that, do you mean that this will signify the beginning of a rapid decline in songwriting? 

[theseoafs]

Don't know if it's been pointed out before, but I just realized this today:  DT12 is the only Dream Theater album with only one song over 8 minutes. 

[hefdaddy42]

Don't know if it's been pointed out before, but I just realized this today:  DT12 is the only Dream Theater album with only one song over 8 minutes.

That actually was pointed out earlier.  But good catch, I had not realized it before that.

[theseoafs]

Not surprised someone realized it before I did, but I thought it was a fun tidbit that showcases exactly how much restraint the DT guys have exercised in the songwriting on this album (that is, more restraint than on any previous album).

Anyway, I'm midway through my 6th or 7th listen.  Another thing I'm realizing is that I don't really have any problems with the album.  I'll jabber on for hours about all my various issues with Systematic Chaos, but I just don't have any criticisms this time around.  Maybe I'm still honeymooning, but if there are any nontrivial imperfections with this record, they must be crazy subtle, because I can't find a single thing to complain about.

[Daybreak at the lake]

I miss the days of really great soaring melodies. JLB seems content to just stay in the mid range for most of his vocals. The few times he did get up there were the best vocals on the album, though.

[hefdaddy42]

Another thing I'm realizing is that I don't really have any problems with the album. 

Same here. 

[ResultsMayVary]

There are a few things about the album that bother me, but they are nitpicky-like. The ending of The Looking Glass is a bit abrupt, but no big deal. etc.

[BlobVanDam]

For me this album is the first where the individual sections are actually much better than the songs themselves.
IT is the perfect example of that. So many highlights that I love, but I don't even think of it as a song, and mostly want to skip to the good bits. It just doesn't work for me as a whole.
And on other songs there are some good choruses, but the songs do nothing for me, or the verses don't have a strong melody etc.
There are maybe 4/9 songs I like complete as is, and 2 of those are instrumental.

[theseoafs]

I guess you just can't account for taste.  Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment.  For me, that's just not the case for DT12.  With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made.  (So far, anyway.)

[BlobVanDam]

I guess you just can't account for taste.  Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment.  For me, that's just not the case for DT12.  With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made.  (So far, anyway.)

There are a lot of great ideas on the album, but for me none of the songs really "stick the landing", so to speak. I think it's a combination of the songs being a bit too condensed, and containing some weaker sections. I still struggle to recall a lot of the songs.
There's nothing on the album I'd call bad, but there's also nothing on this album I see cracking my top 50 (except maybe FAS, of all songs). For an album with such high peaks, that's not a good sign.

[KevShmev]

Man oh man, the trilogy of The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason really sneaks up on you.  I have already went from "these songs have some cool things going on; I could see me really liking them a lot someday soon" to "These songs are absolutely killer."

[Mebert78]

This album is so good, that i'm going to go as far to say that this is the album Dream Theater was destined to make.  Mangini was the missing piece to the magical lineup that has created this masterpiece.

[ariich]

Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...

What outro? The song basically just ends after the final chorus.

[eviljust]

Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...

What outro? The song basically just ends after the final chorus.

That's basically the only thing I don't like on this record. I remember noxon said that on his review defining some outros a bit awkward. Besides IT, the others are disappointing to me.

[Bolsters]

Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.

[Orthogonal]

Which is a shame because outros are their most constantly strong writing attribute.

[eviljust]

Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.

Even shorter? Which songs do you refer to? Just curious..

[Bolsters]

Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.

Even shorter? Which songs do you refer to? Just curious..

Not shorter than what they already have I just meant that the songs didn't need long outros, just something more than the abrupt single chord that they currently have.

[wasteland]

I agree with Bolsters. The Looking Glass is really a beauty of a song, but it would have used a more fitting ending, something in the vein of Innocence Faded, for instance.

[eviljust]

I agree with you guys then. And yes, the Innocence Faded example you brought in it's a good one indeed.

[The Stray Seed]

I have to disagree with the trending opinion, I really like how TLG ends, it does it in an unexpected way and I find it to be veeery prog-oriented. It makes you think "what the... I want more!!!!" and will lure you to the rest of the album.

Also, now that I know where it ends I've just got used to it and it sounds perfectly well to me. Just my opinion anyway =)

To those who said that this album is an astounding achievement and will be remembered ever after: I totally agree with you!

[ariich]

For me the only awkward ending is TLG, although I still feel the wonderful theme introduced at the end of TBP could have been developed further as well.

All the other songs, while concise, are brought to fitting conclusions and work really well I think.

[The Stray Seed]

For me the only awkward ending is TLG, although I still feel the wonderful theme introduced at the end of TBP could have been developed further as well.

All the other songs, while concise, are brought to fitting conclusions and work really well I think.

I really like the fact that it wasn't developed at all. The album is full of stunningly beautiful flashing images, and I just like it the way it is. Mind blowing little gems scattered everywhere... think of the string section - the easter egg - the TBP part you mentioned - the clean guitar verse in the first part of STR - and many others. It's just soooo varied and surprising... an ever-flowing stream of interchanging ideas and emotions.