Mike Portnoy leaves Dream Theater

[Sixtease]

I've stopped caring for MP

I did not. I don't like how he's acting but who never did anything stupid? And he's still a great musician -- hell, listen to the drums on your favorite DT album!

This is not to defend his behavior on social networks. I really hate to see this happening and can't stop marveling at how excellently the other members are handling the situation.

[Bertielee]

I've stopped caring for MP

I did not. I don't like how he's acting but who never did anything stupid? And he's still a great musician -- hell, listen to the drums on your favorite DT album!

This is not to defend his behavior on social networks. I really hate to see this happening and can't stop marveling at how excellently the other members are handling the situation.

Maybe I didn't express myself well : I stopped caring a long time ago, precisely because I think his playing had become stale. The whole "incident" was only the last straw. Look! I'm a DT fan, not a MP fan. I've never listened to anything he's done outside DT because I'm not interested.( BTW, only JLB has kept me into DT for that matter). And it's not because I will go listen to my favorite DT tracks that this will change my opinion. Sorry...And yes, the other members are taking all this with an extraordinary calm.

B.Lee

[ariich]

But we're not them.

I don't recall implying that you were.

And yes, the other members are taking all this with an extraordinary calm.

Yes, because they are optimistic about what is going to happen. It's easy to be calm when you still have your band, have got back to your routine and don't have any uncertainty. The two situations are not comparable.

[Dublagent66]

I don't feel sorry for MP at all.  He made a choice and now he has to live with that choice.  I would tend to feel more sorry for the remaining members.  DT doesn't revolve around just one guy.  It's a team effort and one guy shouldn't have the power to bring everything to a screeching halt.  I commend the remaining members for being steadfast in their resolve to move on.

[Tick]

But we're not them.

I don't recall implying that you were.

And yes, the other members are taking all this with an extraordinary calm.

Yes, because they are optimistic about what is going to happen. It's easy to be calm when you still have your band, have got back to your routine and don't have any uncertainty. The two situations are not comparable.

An analogy if I may...
If everyone in a company wants to work except one employee who wants them all to take an indefinite vacation so he could work for other company's for awhile till he feels like joining the other employees, is that company wrong for not accepting that?
I understand Mike was burned out on Dream Theater at this time and wants to do other things, but you have to realize in life you can't always have your cake and eat it too. Life is full of tough choices. You make them and you have to live with your decisions.
It seems his angst comes from the fact that 4 out of 5 people saw things another way.

I get the sense Mike feels that after 20+ years working in a band he co founded and worked his ass off for, for all of those years, he was entitled to have his request granted. A valid feeling indeed. He has a right to feel slighted. He has done the lions share of work in this band and is a big reason they got where they are today. I wholeheartedly believe that.
If it were me I would be pissed off as well, and might say the same types of things he is out of the hurt and a frustration that after all my hard work I had earned my request.
I think that another source of anger, could be feeling under appreciated by the fans for all your hard work and all you have given of yourself for them.
 
but the reality is the clock ticking on all there careers, and taking a year off after the failure and disappointment of Prog nation 09 and the subsequent canceling of the Black Clouds tour, I could understand the other guys feeling its vital for them to rebound from it in 2011.
A year off for a band like Dream Theater could do a lot of damage in a career that has steadily picked up more and more steam every year recently.

[orcus116]

But we're not them.

I don't recall implying that you were.

You said that the people that comment on his Facebook and such were what you'd call trolls (I'd tend to agree) but the way you're reacting to some people's posts, which are worded about as completely opposite of those "troll posts" as you can get, it seems like you're treating them as one in the same. Tell tick to chill out for a post like his is coming across as telling us not to say anything that might be construed as negative. Considering none of us are going to go off on some "FUCK YOU PORTNOY YOU TRAITOR" type rant it seems a bit unfair.

[ariich]

I wasn't referring to you guys at all, I was talking about them in relation to Portnoy's reactions to them, which is a large part of what we were discussing. As far as I know, Portnoy hasn't said anything negative about the rest of the band, nor about the fanbase in general. His only complaint has been about people trolling his facebook and forum, which I think is completely justified.

Anything beyond that, such as how he supposedly is pissed off with the rest of the band, is mere speculation.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Back on the topic of MP's departure:

Tick, you made an amazing point with the poker analogy. It sums up the situation perfectly.

MP met with the guys. He thought if he threatened to leave DT, they would have no choice but to go on an indefinite hiatus like he wanted. But he never thought in a million years they would, instead, opt to go on without him.

Huge blow to his ego, and it makes perfect sense why it has resulted in so many passive-aggressive, snarky remarks via facebook, twitter and his website.

[Chino]

You guys think that MP has viewed this thread?

[ariich]

You guys think that MP has viewed this thread?

I feel sorry for him if he has. The amount of stating speculation as fact is through the roof in this thread.

[Dublagent66]

To me, MP has always seemed like he's comfortable in his own skin.  He's his own man.  A self-made man, so why would he even care what other people think?  Regardless if it's true or not.  This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time.  He knows the truth and that's all that should matter to him.

[Tick]

You guys think that MP has viewed this thread?

I feel sorry for him if he has. The amount of stating speculation as fact is through the roof in this thread.

You feel sorry for him if he has? Really? Maybe it would be therapeutic because its at least most of this stuff said with tact. It would be a good thing if he knew what some true fans who really care think and not the mindless spamming trolls with no real point of view.
When your feeling sorry for Mike, keep in mind he is having a pretty good life as we speak. He is out having a ball with AV7 and really doesn't require anyone to feel sorry for him. Mike Portnoy has it pretty damn good right now. Lets try and keep that in mind.

[Bertielee]

Frankly, ariich, you mean to answer every negative remark about MP?  Wow! Good luck! Because, honestly, I don't think it will ever change the way some of us see things right now.

B.Lee

[bosk1]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

[Dublagent66]

That's not what I meant and I think you know that.  I never said it was ok to do so.  It's a plain fact and that's all I meant.

[bosk1]

No, I don't know that.  I see that kind of thing posted all the time as if it's a free pass for people to act however they feel like acting, and it's honestly pretty annoying.

[MetalManiac666]

To me, MP has always seemed like he's comfortable in his own skin.  He's his own man.  A self-made man, so why would he even care what other people think?  Regardless if it's true or not.  This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time.  He knows the truth and that's all that should matter to him.

MP has always seemed to have thin-skin when it comes to criticism.

[Seventh Son]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

[Perpetual Change]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Why is it not OK to do so? Fans speculating about their favorite bands is like almost as old as rock n' roll itself.

[Seventh Son]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Why is it not OK to do so? Fans speculating about their favorite bands is like almost as old as rock n' roll itself.

I think bosk was talking about trolling more than speculating.

[darkshade]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

and which country are you talking about. not everyone here is posting from the U.S.

[Seventh Son]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

and which country are you talking about. not everyone here is posting from the U.S.

Well, consider that the phrase "Free Country" is most associated with the USA, it isn't that hard to figure out that's where I'm from

[Perpetual Change]

You guys think that MP has viewed this thread?

I feel sorry for him if he has. The amount of stating speculation as fact is through the roof in this thread.

I really don't, at all. This thread is perfectly fine in terms of attitude, and I've seen Mike talk much worse shit about his own personal idols in interviews and videos that I've seen talked about him here. I wonder if the guys from Metallica, Rush, Queensryche, etc, ever read his comments on their output in the 90s? His general attitude during that period was something along the lines of "_____ used to make good music but now they really fucking suck, but don't worry, because we're making the kind of music they used to make."

But, anyway, without getting too off topic, I'm thinking maybe Mike's initial "whiny" comments were directed more toward the Facebook fans and 5/8. I hadn't checked 5/8 for months until last night, but the thread about him leaving there is just plain tasteless.  As most things there are I guess.

[Super Dude]

To me, MP has always seemed like he's comfortable in his own skin.  He's his own man.  A self-made man, so why would he even care what other people think?

As comfortable as he may be with himself, it's Never Enough.

[robwebster]

You guys think that MP has viewed this thread?

I feel sorry for him if he has. The amount of stating speculation as fact is through the roof in this thread.

I really don't, at all. This thread is perfectly fine in terms of attitude, and I've seen Mike talk much worse shit about his own personal idols in interviews and videos that I've seen talked about him here. I wonder if the guys from Metallica, Rush, Queensryche, etc, ever read his comments on their output?

But, anyway, without getting too off topic, I'm thinking maybe Mike's initial "whiny" comments were directed more toward the Facebook fans and 5/8. I hadn't checked 5/8 for months until last night, but the thread about him leaving there is just plain tasteless.  As most things there are I guess.

If he's not checked out this thread, he's definitely not checked out 5/8. I doubt it's on his radar. This place probably is.

[bosk1]

Mke doesn't really read this forum, but he is certainly aware of 5/8's existence.

[robwebster]

Mke doesn't really read this forum, but he is certainly aware of 5/8's existence.

Christ. Really?

Poor guy. If I knew I had a congregation of lapsed fans, I'd be so morbidly curious all the time.

[darkshade]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

and which country are you talking about. not everyone here is posting from the U.S.

Well, consider that the phrase "Free Country" is most associated with the USA, it isn't that hard to figure out that's where I'm from

you missed the point, of course i assumed you were from the US, but im sure many of the posters and trolls on the internet are not all from the US, where there isnt necessarily free speech.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah bosk, didn't you say when you met Mike and told him who you were he thought you were from 5/8 at first?

If so, the whole way he says DT "fan sites" so disapprovingly makes a little bit more sense.

[Seventh Son]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

and which country are you talking about. not everyone here is posting from the U.S.

Well, consider that the phrase "Free Country" is most associated with the USA, it isn't that hard to figure out that's where I'm from

you missed the point, of course i assumed you were from the US, but im sure many of the posters and trolls on the internet are not all from the US, where there isnt necessarily free speech.

No, I got that, I was just pointing out that kind of mentality isn't restricted to the internet.

Anyway, aren't Britian's laws regarding free speech similar to those of US though?

[Dublagent66]

No, I don't know that.  I see that kind of thing posted all the time as if it's a free pass for people to act however they feel like acting, and it's honestly pretty annoying.

Ok, then let me try to clarify it for you.  There are idiots in the world that cause nothing but trouble.  It's a fact of life.  It can't be completely stopped.  Of course there is no excuse for acting like that, but people do anyway.  Not just on the internet, but everywhere in the media.  Now, people who are famous (or semi famous) have to decide how they will deal with it.  They can either decide to let it bother them or they can simply ignore it and move on.

What I said doesn't give people a free pass to do anything like that.  I was simply stating a fact that we all have to decide how we'll deal with it.  If what I said was against the rules, then I apologize.  But, in no way was I condoning that kind of behavior.  Now can we move on from this?  No harm, no foul. 

[darkshade]

This is the internet.  People speculate and troll all the time. 

Comments like this don't fly with me.  Just because people do speculate and troll doesn't mean it's okay to do so.  "Oh, it's the Internet!" isn't a free pass to behave like an idiot.

Replace "Oh, it's the internet!" with "Oh, it's a free country!". Same mentality, as far as I'm concerned

and which country are you talking about. not everyone here is posting from the U.S.

Well, consider that the phrase "Free Country" is most associated with the USA, it isn't that hard to figure out that's where I'm from

you missed the point, of course i assumed you were from the US, but im sure many of the posters and trolls on the internet are not all from the US, where there isnt necessarily free speech.

No, I got that, I was just pointing out that kind of mentality isn't restricted to the internet.

Anyway, aren't Britian's laws regarding free speech similar to those of US though?

not sure, i dont know most European country's laws too well, though i know they have similar ones to US's. it's just that the internet is unregulated and whos to say what country should take charge and instill laws with using it? but i think this is way off topic and would be good to continue in another thread.

anyway, im with a lot of people here and think he should stay off the computer for a while. i havent lost respect for him or anything, i will continue to see what he does in the future as he is one of the more creative musicians around today. he's in a difficult situation, sure he kind of brought it on himself, but whatever, shit happens...

[bosk1]

Yeah bosk, didn't you say when you met Mike and told him who you were he thought you were from 5/8 at first?

Yes, and it triggered perhaps the only time in recent history where Neal Morse appeared ready to jump over an autograph table and beat somebody up.    But, yeah, his perception of what goes on here is heavily tainted by complete misinformation he got back when Itchy shut down DT.net.  Or at least it was.  In what limited time I had to talk to him, I think I was able to somewhat set the record straight.  But it was clear he didn't really know much about this forum at the time.

No, I don't know that.  I see that kind of thing posted all the time as if it's a free pass for people to act however they feel like acting, and it's honestly pretty annoying.

Ok, then let me try to clarify it for you.  There are idiots in the world that cause nothing but trouble.  It's a fact of life.  It can't be completely stopped.  Of course there is no excuse for acting like that, but people do anyway.  Not just on the internet, but everywhere in the media.  Now, people who are famous (or semi famous) have to decide how they will deal with it.  They can either decide to let it bother them or they can simply ignore it and move on.

What I said doesn't give people a free pass to do anything like that.  I was simply stating a fact that we all have to decide how we'll deal with it.  If what I said was against the rules, then I apologize.  But, in no way was I condoning that kind of behavior.  Now can we move on from this?  No harm, no foul.  

What you said isn't against the rules at all.  I'm just saying that people throw that around as if it's a free pass to say what you want with no consequences, which is annoying.

[Perpetual Change]

Neal Morse knows about the DT forums? Hehe. I doubt it. But, then again, he does seem like the kind person who'd just looking to fight at the drop of a hat 

[bosk1]

  It was actually kind of funny.  I was passing through the autograph line and had already spoken with Neal.  Then I got to Mike and was introduced to Mike by a mutual friend, and he started completely going off.  It soon became apparent that he had us confused with 5/8.  We talked for a few minutes, and I made a comment along the lines of "There are always idiots out there on the Internet, but the vast majority of people out there understand that you love your fans and are pretty much the hardest working man in rock and roll for your fans."  Neal was talking to someone else, and I think just picked up on the fact that Mike was upset and only heard just a couple of bits and pieces, and right after I said what I said, Neal whips around, jabs his finger at me, and is like "You bet he is the hardest working man in rock and roll for his fans, and don't you forget it!"  I think I just stood there for a second with my jaw hanging open thinking, "Whoa!  Ease back, Neal.  I already escaped Colin's wrath for sneaking backstage through the band entrance before the show.  If he thinks I'm starting a fight with you, he's likely to run up and snap me in half before asking any questions."