Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[YtseJam]

DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.

Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.

[DoctorAction]

DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.

Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.

Had to look him up. No memory of him at all. 

What's your view? Am I sensing a TNG-is better-than-everything stance?

[Kotowboy]

That's a lot of "True Star trek Fans" stance.

It is for Red Letter Media. " We love Star trek " = " We love TNG everything else is shit ".

[soupytwist]

That's a lot of "True Star trek Fans" stance.

It is for Red Letter Media. " We love Star trek " = " We love TNG everything else is shit ".

I remember TNG was looked upon negatively when it came out, because it wasn't ToS.  If their was an internet and social media in the 80's TNG would have been eaten alive based on those first two series!

[Kotowboy]

Exactly it's the same old crap.

Everything comes around. In 20 years if there's a completely new show / cast / crew / showrunner etc.

People will be going " Man this is SHIT. Discovery was not so bad after all " then it will be super trendy to love Discovery.

Just likes it now super trendy to love the Star Wars prequels cause people don't like the new Star Wars.



RLM also said that when reviewing The Rise Of Skywalker " NO. The new films being bad does not somehow make the prequels good. "...

[El Barto]

DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.

Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.

Had to look him up. No memory of him at all. 

What's your view? Am I sensing a TNG-is better-than-everything stance?

Well, since he's using a TNG character to bag on the rest of it, probably not. Tin Man was a crappy episode, and I didn't much like Tam Elbrun, but he actually was a pretty interesting character. I don't think I'd use him as the baseline for crappy characters in general.

[El Barto]

Exactly it's the same old crap.

Everything comes around. In 20 years if there's a completely new show / cast / crew / showrunner etc.

People will be going " Man this is SHIT. Discovery was not so bad after all " then it will be super trendy to love Discovery.

Just likes it now super trendy to love the Star Wars prequels cause people don't like the new Star Wars.



RLM also said that when reviewing The Rise Of Skywalker " NO. The new films being bad does not somehow make the prequels good. "...

Maybe that's true of people who base their opinions solely on RLM, but then those people will never like anything, will they. RLM proves quite well that there's nothing you can't rag on successfully, and that there are people out there who will gladly change their tune because of it. No matter what your favorite movie is, RLM can make it look tragically flawed. I'm not sure why people actually pay attention to them.

[Orbert]

I just watched the DS9 episode "Defiant" and have a question.

Thomas Riker (the duplicate of Will Riker created by a transporter accident and introduced in TNG) arrives on Deep Space Nine.  He presents himself as Will Riker, and he and Major Kira head over to the Defiant to check it out.  O'Brien is on board doing some maintenance, and I was thinking "Ah yes, these two served on the Enterprise together for years."  But it's not a happy reunion.

O'Brien looks up and sees Riker, says something, and Riker just looks at him and says "I have nothing to say to you."  O'Brien leaves.  He looks disappointed by Riker's reaction, but not really surprised.  Obviously something happened between them, but I can't remember what it was.  And remember that at this point we still think it's Will Riker.  Was there some kind of problem when O'Brien left the Enterprise to serve on DS9?  What was Riker referring to?

[Kotowboy]

Was O Brien the guy that was transpo chief when Thomas Riker was created ?

[El Barto]

I just watched the DS9 episode "Defiant" and have a question.

Thomas Riker (the duplicate of Will Riker created by a transporter accident and introduced in TNG) arrives on Deep Space Nine.  He presents himself as Will Riker, and he and Major Kira head over to the Defiant to check it out.  O'Brien is on board doing some maintenance, and I was thinking "Ah yes, these two served on the Enterprise together for years."  But it's not a happy reunion.

O'Brien looks up and sees Riker, says something, and Riker just looks at him and says "I have nothing to say to you."  O'Brien leaves.  He looks disappointed by Riker's reaction, but not really surprised.  Obviously something happened between them, but I can't remember what it was.  And remember that at this point we still think it's Will Riker.  Was there some kind of problem when O'Brien left the Enterprise to serve on DS9?  What was Riker referring to?

Pretty sure that was just Tom Riker's way of ending a difficult situation. He didn't really have a plan for dealing with chance encounters, and he didn't know O'Brien well enough to bluff his way through a social encounter. I thought it was actually pretty smooth, as O'Brien, an enlisted man, isn't going to press the issue with an officer. He politely excused himself and that was that.

Probably confused the bejeezus out of O'Brien, though. 

[El Barto]

Was O Brien the guy that was transpo chief when Thomas Riker was created ?

I thought Tom Riker was created by the ship he was serving on at the time. Enterprise just found him however many years later.

[Kotowboy]

I did think it was funny how Tom's beard was basically the same as Will - seeing as Will grew the beard years later.

So John didn't have to shave for the episode.

[Orbert]

After I posted that question, I did some digging.  Yeah yeah, I could have done the digging first, but figured someone here may know the answer.  Apparently it's just what Bart said.  Tom Riker wasn't prepared to bluff his way through any chance encounters with someone from Will Riker's past, so he said something obnoxious to O'Brien, and O'Brien -- an enlisted man -- wasn't going to call an officer out, regardless of how many years they'd served together.  O'Brien left, confused.  I didn't really read it that way, but that's the general consensus.

[ReaperKK]

I just watched the DS9 episode "Defiant" and have a question.

Thomas Riker (the duplicate of Will Riker created by a transporter accident and introduced in TNG) arrives on Deep Space Nine.  He presents himself as Will Riker, and he and Major Kira head over to the Defiant to check it out.  O'Brien is on board doing some maintenance, and I was thinking "Ah yes, these two served on the Enterprise together for years."  But it's not a happy reunion.

O'Brien looks up and sees Riker, says something, and Riker just looks at him and says "I have nothing to say to you."  O'Brien leaves.  He looks disappointed by Riker's reaction, but not really surprised.  Obviously something happened between them, but I can't remember what it was.  And remember that at this point we still think it's Will Riker.  Was there some kind of problem when O'Brien left the Enterprise to serve on DS9?  What was Riker referring to?

Pretty sure that was just Tom Riker's way of ending a difficult situation. He didn't really have a plan for dealing with chance encounters, and he didn't know O'Brien well enough to bluff his way through a social encounter. I thought it was actually pretty smooth, as O'Brien, an enlisted man, isn't going to press the issue with an officer. He politely excused himself and that was that.

Probably confused the bejeezus out of O'Brien, though. 

This was my take on it too, Tom didn't want to arouse suspicion by talking to O'Brien as Will. 

[El Barto]

Also worth noting, Defiant was an excellent episode. Good story. Gives a hint at the Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar alliance to come. Expanded on Tom Riker in a logical way and gave him a very fitting end. Provided some good development for Dukat. Provided some exposition on the way the Kardassians work. Across the board good episode.

[soupytwist]

As a completist 'Prodigy' is going to be tough, I mean it's a kids show (not sure if there is an audience for this?) - I may watch the first episode and then sadly throw in my completist card.

[Kotowboy]

I like what I like and don't watch what I dont like.

The only Trek I actually own are the 13 movies on Blu Ray and S1 of TOS Remastered as it was a gift. If Picard S2 is even worse than S1 i'll just stop watching Picard.

What I won't do is explain IN DETAIL at every available opportunity WHY PICARD SUX.

I'm not saying Kurtzman Trek sucks - but i'm not as into Trek as I was in the Berman era. Heck I still havent seen DS9.

I will do one day but it's not a pressing issue.

I can't understand those people who HATE Discovery yet they keep watching it to make sure IT STILL SUCKS and everyone needs to know it does.

[El Barto]

I can't understand those people who HATE Discovery yet they keep watching it to make sure IT STILL SUCKS and everyone needs to know it does.

Me neither.

[soupytwist]

I watched ToS on repeats in the UK in the early to mid 80's.  I watched TNG when it was first broadcast on BBC 2, same with DS9 - both Voyager and Enterprise I gave up on a few seasons in. 
When Netflix UK got all the Star Trek shows, it wasn't a great time for me - and basically because I didn't have much of a life then I watched everything Star Trek. I originally intended to write reviews as I went along, but midway though the first season of TNG I discovered 'Jammer's ST' site and he'd already done this much better than I could, so I joined the discussions on the episodes instead.  I even watched the original animated series,  I guess that's my logic behind wanting to watch all things Star Trek - although I've had some issues with some of the modern Trek I still enjoy Discovery, Picard, The JJ films more than most and even Lower Decks grew on me.

[Kotowboy]

I like all three of the kelvin movies more than the final 3 TNG movies, of which Generations is by far my favourite.

But i'm not in love with Trek enough to say " this isn't for me - i don't have to watch it. I'll stick to what I like "

I'm not the biggest fan of Insurrection - but you won't see me going on a RAGE every time I see it mentioned.

[YtseJam]

DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.

Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.

Had to look him up. No memory of him at all. 

What's your view? Am I sensing a TNG-is better-than-everything stance?

I think TNG definitely reins champion in the grand scheme of things but I am definitely not TNG is better than everything. DS9 just missed the mark on everything. I honestly think the most interesting character in the series became Gul Dukat through the whole run. He had the breadth and depth to his role and the actor did a really good job while the rest was just meh. I mean look at Jake's clothes 

[DoctorAction]

 

[Kotowboy]

I've still never watched DS9 in full. But something just stops me from watching it. Dunno. Something about it becoming more of a one story show and really political and all that.

Although I did Enjoy the entire Xindi arc of Enterprise.

One day I will watch it.

[El Barto]

I've still never watched DS9 in full. But something just stops me from watching it. Dunno. Something about it becoming more of a one story show and really political and all that.

Although I did Enjoy the entire Xindi arc of Enterprise.

One day I will watch it.

Neither DS9 nor ENT were ever one story shows. People act like ENT S3 was nothing but Xindi, but in reality more than half of the episodes were completely unrelated, save for a throwaway line at the beginning along the lines of "we're following a lead on the Xindi super-weapon that's taking us into an uncharted region of space." Or, they have a story idea and they just tweak it so that the bad guys are Xindi instead of, say, Klingons or Nazis, but doesn't do anything to advance the story. I mean, was Carpenter Street a Xindi story or a standard ST time travel story?

DS9 worked the same way. Looking at S6, five of the first six episodes were all Dominion War. After that it was mostly just typical ST episodes with the war either being in the background or completely nonexistent. Seems to me that only about 10 of 26 are really Domnion focused.

[ReaperKK]

I've still never watched DS9 in full. But something just stops me from watching it. Dunno. Something about it becoming more of a one story show and really political and all that.

Although I did Enjoy the entire Xindi arc of Enterprise.

One day I will watch it.

You really should take the time to watch it, it might not be for you but IMO the strongest all around cast was DS9 with some really fantastic stories.

[Kotowboy]

If DS9 is still on UK Netflix when I get it to watch Disco S4 I might have to binge watch it.

[DoctorAction]

By far the best incarnation of Trek there's been, imo.

[Kotowboy]

It's really interesting that JJ made 2 Star trek movies and 2 Star Wars.

And one of each of them borrows heavily from a previous movie. Force Awakens is more blatant. Into Darkness just has that one scene.

Also Star trek 2009 is actually a pretty good film with nods to fans. Whilst Rise of Skywalker is basically Star Wars into Darkness.

It suffers from ALL the same problems as Into Darkness.

On the whole i'd say the Kelvin trilogy is WAY better than the Star Wars Sequels.

Just for Star Trek 2009 and Beyond. Into Darkness in 3rd place but I still think it's a good fun film.

[DoctorAction]

I agree. But I watch Star Wars just because "why not?". I have near to zero investment in it.

Opinion blunderbuss:

A New Hope was amazing. The other two originals were fine. The prequels added a whole new level of disbelief to the phrase "What the fuck have you done?!". The sequels have been fine. Not seen Solo. Rogue One was excellent.

[Kotowboy]

I am almost there with you.

I saw The Wrath of Khan and A New Hope around the same time in the mid 80s. TWOK blew my mind. It was the best thing i'd ever seen until Back To The Future.

Star Wars to me was just "ehhhh". Never been into fantasy really. It never really moved me.

I went to see the Phantom Menace on opening day with some school friends and WE ALL KNEW THEN it was awful. We weren't told to hate it by The Internet.

I thought Force Awakens was great but Last Jedi was and The Rise Of Skywalker was fun but not much else. On the whole a very messy trilogy.

Solo was OK and Rogue one was OK. Vader doing his thing at the end did NOTHING for me as i'm not a Star Wars fan. It was just fan service to me.

I rolled my eyes in the cinema. YES I enjoy 'watching' them - but that's where my enjoyment ends. I don't own a single Star Wars anything. Not for me.



I have this theory that - people aren't REALLY mad that the Sequels are so bad - they're just now realising that Star Wars NEVER WAS that good to begin with.

When you get right down to it - they love A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. They dont even all like Return of the Jedi.

So they only really like 2 out of like 11 movies.

[DoctorAction]

The only good thing about TPM at the cinema was the logo at the start. 

[Kotowboy]

It's funny that people are now RE-EVALUATING the prequels cause they hate Disney.

The SW Prequels were terrible in every department. Acting Script Tone. Pacing. CGI...

The SW Sequels ONLY had bad scripts. Everything else was far superior.

Also - as for which franchise has the most devout worshippers ?

Nobody ever camped outside the cinema for a week for a Star trek film

We went on opening day like Logical humans.🖖🏼

[soupytwist]

The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones aren't just bad Star Wars films - they are actually shit and boring films,  Revenge of the Sith is an improvement in just being plain bang average.   I'd take any of the modern trilogy over the Prequels at least they are generally fun.

I love Trek 09 and really like Into Darkness.  Beyond however was a letdown, not terrible by any means, just pretty forgettable.  I hope we get one more movie with that crew (minus Yelchin sadly).

[Kotowboy]

The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones aren't just bad Star Wars films - they are actually shit and boring films,  Revenge of the Sith is an improvement in just being plain bang average. 

Yes thank you. And I agree. They are not just bad Star Wars films - they're bad FILMS. Full Stop. People only liked "..Sith" as it was merely the least awful.

But it was still dreadful. And I love Mike Stoklasa's videos on breaking down exactly why they don't work.

" I love Trek 09 and really like Into Darkness.  Beyond however was a letdown, not terrible by any means, just pretty forgettable.  I hope we get one more movie with that crew (minus Yelchin sadly). "


Indeed. I LOVED into Darkness on the big screen - Vengeance ploughing into San Fran was epic.. I always enjoy GOOD crash scenes. Like the plane crash in ALIVE or the Saucer crash

in generations. Weirdly. the crash scene in generations ( 1994 ) looked way better than the one 22 years later with the best CGI in Beyond ( 2016 ) .

HOWEVER - whilst Beyond didnt blow me away on first watch ( the screen was SO DARK in my screening - night time scenes were unintelligible. )

I did grow to like it the most out of the 3 later

[DoctorAction]

That cast is great. Love em.