*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[wideworldofmike]

The most brutal thing ever is "A New Beginning" fading out in the middle of that incredible Petrucci solo. 

this

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

It's funny, because I think that if this were any other band no one would care at all about the drum sound, the mix or the drum performance itself (which I think is pretty killer). One of the criticisms he has received the most in these past 4 years has been of overplaying, his drum sound, lacking 'feel' (whatever that means) and of playing very machine-like compared to Portnoy. This is probably one of the most laid-back-play-to-the-song drum performances I've heard from DT, and the sound fits the whole mix surprisingly well. So, I find it very peculiar that you don't find his drumming organic, or to consider him a detriment.

My two cents.

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

It's funny, because I think that if this were any other band no one would care at all about the drum sound, the mix or the drum performance itself (which I think is pretty killer). One of the criticisms he has received the most in these past 4 years has been of overplaying, of lacking 'feel' (whatever that means) and of playing very machine-like compared to Portnoy. This is probably one of the most laid-back-play-to-the-song drum performances I've heard from DT, so I find it very peculiar that you don't find his drumming organic, or to consider him a detriment.

My two cents.

He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison. 

[chego_voice]

I heard A LOT of SFAM references all over The Astonishing... and I FUC^%*N LOVE IT!!!!!

[pcs90]

I have to disagree on MM as well. The drumming is definitely not lifeless. There's also plenty of subtlety -- sure there could have been more of that, but it's there especially on the first disc. The thing with MM is he keeps a basic up-front pulse, but there's lots of other things that he adds in underneath. Portnoy makes these extras super obvious, with MM you have to listen more for them (plus his cymbals are generally mixed lower). I imagine if this style bothers you, you'll never really enjoy MM's playing. I for one think it fits well.

[erwinrafael]

I have to disagree on MM as well. The drumming is definitely lifeless. There's also plenty of subtlety -- sure there could have been more of that, but it's there especially on the first disc. The thing with MM is he keeps a basic up-front pulse, but there's lots of other things that he adds in underneath. Portnoy makes these extras super obvious, with MM you have to listen more for them (plus his cymbals are generally mixed lower). I imagine if this style bothers you, you'll never really enjoy MM's playing. I for one think it fits well.

I think you meant to  include NOT in that statement. 

[pcs90]

Yep, fixed!

[rumborak]

He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison. 

Or Marco Minnemann, or Neil Peart, or ...

Seriously though, this is just my personal opinion and taste. I do not connect with his uber-precise, dry drum sound. I like to hear the stick scraping over the rim, the imprecise hit of the hihat, I like dynamics. MM is not about that, I totally get that  (now). Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I think I have to concur. Up until now he's merely been a disappointing reminder of what's lost. Now I'm considering him a detriment, despite perhaps being the most gifted one in an amazingly talented band.

I really don't want to harp on this too long, but yeah, I had the same thought when I was listening to the album. Especially for the softer sections, subtle, organic drumming would have been wondrous and added so much to the songs. But it just stays at the same "bup ... chick", the whole time.

Yes, because When Your Time Has Come and Act of Faythe has "bup...chick" drumming all over. Maybe I am just imagining all those ghost notes.

Wow. I hadn't made it that far yet, but after your post I listened to those. WYTHC is the most egregious yet. AoF isn't too bad, and I rather like the mini-solo at the conclusion. WYTHC is actually hard to listen to, though.

[erwinrafael]

He won't like it unless MM plays like his favorite drummer, Gavin Harrison. 

Or Marco Minnemann, or Neil Peart, or ...

Well, MM is more along the lines of Terry Bozzio and Bill Bruford, mixed with metal elements. His drumming in A Life Left Behind actually sounds a lot like how Bozzio would drum in a UK record like Ceasar's Palace Blues.

[Bertie_Wooster]

I thought MM is what made some of the DT12 songs great.  If he had been there when TA was written he would have had a similar impact
Why listen to the drums when you have James  JR amd JP giving such a great performance.  The music did not give mike a lot of room to manuever anyway.
In heavens Cove I want to hear the womans singing not drums.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Sometimes I don't know what people expect MM to do with the songs because as a drummer myself (In no way is that meant to imply I know more, i'm just saying.) what I hear is a drummer that supports the songs by orchestrating his parts in a very subtle and intricate way to fit the music. I don't think people appreciate enough how rythmically interesting and demanding his drum parts really are but then again maybe it's just my reflection on what kind of drummer/drumming I like. There's seems to be a thought with every drum beat, fill and rythmic figure that MM does right down to what sticking or rudiment he should play. If people think that makes his playing machine like then that's just something I don't agree with.

Just my two cents.

[dvargas]

The biggest mistake I made today:

While at work I listened to SDOIT disc 1. 

TA... not even remotely close.

Why would you compare them? SDOIT is written as a typical music album. TA is written as a musical.

If you listen to TA as a musical and judge it as a musical production, the musical choices all make sense, especially the recurring themes, the  not so lengthy development of "instrumental" ideas, etc.

TA is not even comparable to SFAM because SFAM, while a concept album with a narrative, is still written mostly as a typical music album, like Haken's Aquarius and Visions. TA, based on the flow and the composition, is really writeen as a musical theater production. Even the last song would give you the impression that it is where the "actors" would come back to the stage to take their bows and receive audience applause.

I am getting a sense here that DT has more plans for this project and they might actually explore making this an actual theatrical production because that is how it is written.

Kinda hard not to compare to DT's body of work. I know this is a musical/opera... whatev. But I happened to listen to SDOIT today.

If you had to rank albums... as we usually do here, would you not do it, because this is not written as a typical musical album.

Should I then compare this to The producers, Hairspray , the Sound of Music and other musicals instead?

[El Barto]

Seriously though, this is just my personal opinion and taste. I do not connect with his uber-precise, dry drum sound. I like to hear the stick scraping over the rim, the imprecise hit of the hihat, I like dynamics. MM is not about that, I totally get that  (now). Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Which is why, and I'll reiterate, I look forward to seeing this played live. I think it'll all come across much better to my ears in that format. The sound is the bigger problem for me, and the overplaying exasperates that. A more raw live sound with, dare I say, a little sloppiness will make the whole thing more palatable and it's already sure to be fun to watch.

[rumborak]

I'm actually quite looking forward to the concert, for that , and many other reasons. For example, I feel strong visuals could really bind together the songs. I hope they work out a strong visual show for this.

[Bertie_Wooster]

SDOIT with fake symphony<  TA

[Progmetty]

I think it's safe to say they'll have big NOMAC's hanging by wires behind the band on stage but it will be ambitious if they somehow made them hover over the audience in the beginning or at various points during the show.

[chego_voice]

The third arrives...

Before the leaves have fallen
Before we lock the doors
There must be a third and last dance
This one will last forever
Metropolis watches and thoughtfully smiles
She's taken you to your home

It can only take place
When the struggle between our children has ended
Now the miracle and the sleeper know that the third is love

Love is the dance of eternity

sounds familiar?

[InFlames235]

I love this album. Easily my favorite one with Mangini in the band and beats some of the Portnoy albums as well. Right when some people accuse this band of just being bored and uninspired, they release this as their 13th album. Awesome.

[Implode]

Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

[rumborak]

That's why Our New World is my favorite song on the album, yeah. Completely unexpected, different style.

[vbrodrigues95]

I think the theme from the intro of A Savior in the Square and Our New World might enter my all-time DT favourite along with intro/outro from TCOT.

[erwinrafael]

Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind.

[gm5k]

Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind.

Hymn of a Thousand Voices seems to be the climax of the album to me.  The songs after it are more of a...celebration/summary? do other people interpret it differently?   Either way my God is the ending of that song glorious.

Agree with those that said "Our New World" is incredible. 

Like some have said, that magic that existed in late 90's/early 00's DT is recaptured here and pretty often I think.  Such an inspired album.

[ZKX-2099]

I'm loving the whole album. Haven't been paying much attention to what song is playing and with the albums seamless flow I still can't say what songs are sticking out to me besides a few like Three Minutes, Lord Nafaryus and A New Beginning.

Love the bagpipe section, (never thought I would say that) very well done.

The Nomac tracks are cool. I gotta assume those were all Jordan messing around with various unknown, recently invented instruments and cell phone apps. Praise J-Rood.

This is the first album since SC I got a "fun" vibe from.

I wish they would have let the end bit of A New Beginning go on for about two or three more hours.

I do feel the album lacks a real "meaty" heavy song like TEI.

Just the right amount of reprises for me.

I think this album will only continue to get better with each listen. But I do think it's gonna be an album that I only listen to when I'm in a certain mood.

[Progmetty]

I still have no way to hear it til midnight when I'm ASSUMING Amazon will give me quality mp3s.
I wrote this bit now inspired by this wait for the album, it's about Fessoy The Deaf, a nice rich farmer who lives in The Upper Yorke Bay and was born with no ears, which made him famous for this unique disfigurement, a year before the events of The Astonishing; a surgeon from Widow's Peak comes up with a way to make Fessoy hear. That night after the surgery he goes out with his family to hear the NOMAC's for the first time.. 
Yes I'm very ready -and already- immersed in the world of The Astonishing heh

[ZKX-2099]

Also... the start of Moment Of Betrayal reminds me of that one Garth Brooks song.

[erwinrafael]

Can we talk about how Hymn of a Thousand Voices  and Our New World don't sound like standard DT? This is like, the first time they've done this in a looong time. I didn't think they still had it in them.

When I think of DT playing something new in TA, first that comes to mind is A Life Left Behind.

Hymn of a Thousand Voices seems to be the climax of the album to me.  The songs after it are more of a...celebration/summary? do other people interpret it differently?   Either way my God is the ending of that song glorious.

I think it is from the story POV, but looking at the musical as a whole, Our New World is the climax for me. Astonishing feels more like the part of the musical where the characters are coming out one by one to be recognized by the audience.

[Bertie_Wooster]

I still have no way to hear it til midnight when I'm ASSUMING Amazon will give me quality mp3s.
I wrote this bit now inspired by this wait for the album, it's about Fessoy The Deaf, a nice rich farmer who lives in The Upper Yorke Bay and was born with no ears, which made him famous for this unique disfigurement, a year before the events of The Astonishing; a surgeon from Widow's Peak comes up with a way to make Fessoy hear. That night after the surgery he goes out with his family to hear the NOMAC's for the first time.. 
Yes I'm very ready -and already- immersed in the world of The Astonishing heh

I liked the poem

[Progmetty]

I liked the poem

Haha thanks bro, I tried to make the Queso drip out of it

[j]

I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

[ZKX-2099]

I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

Nah. I've been skipping around.

[El Barto]

I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

Yeah, I'm hep. This weekend I'm going to drive up to Texoma to visit some friends, which is the perfect length of time to listen to it twice and familiarize myself with it, yet the car I'm driving has no working CD player. 

[erwinrafael]

I haven't listened to much of this yet, just the first few tracks, but Dystopian Overture is the tits!

Unfortunately, though I don't doubt there will be some great music on this album, the very fact that it's over 2 hours long is gonna be prohibitive, since I never really have a chunk of free time that long to commit.  Hopefully enjoyment isn't contingent on an uninterrupted listening experience.

-J

I have made a short playlist for my commute that includes these songs:

Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
A New Beginning
The Path That Divides
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Our New World

[gm5k]

For you Spotify guys it's now up for me here, central time zone