2018 NFL Thread - The Dynasty

[Nick]

To be this consistent in this era designed to promote parity......it's absolutely incredible. Hate em if you want to or need to, but there is no denying how great of an accomplishment this sustained success of New England has been.

Exactly. This isn't a joke league like MLB where the Yankees can buy their way to a dynasty. I'm not a Patriots fan, but I am a Patriots admirer and they are bar none the most impressive professional sports franchise of the past 20 years.

[black_biff_stadler]

The OT doesn't happen if the call is made correctly. It's like telling someone they'd have never been evicted if they would've had a second job to make money cuz their primary job skipped town and never paid them.

True, but Brady got to OT and won it.  Brees had the same opportunity and didn't.

*eyeroll* Like Brady had to deal with even 5% of the ref screwjobs Brees did. Shit, Brady routinely benefits from shaky reffing.

[King Postwhore]

The OT doesn't happen if the call is made correctly. It's like telling someone they'd have never been evicted if they would've had a second job to make money cuz their primary job skipped town and never paid them.

True, but Brady got to OT and won it.  Brees had the same opportunity and didn't.

*eyeroll* Like Brady had to deal with even 5% of the ref screwjobs Brees did. Shit, Brady routinely benefits from shaky reffing.

Why do you hurt me lover?  Why?

[TAC]

Saints fans have every right to bitch. Brutal.



As far as OT rules, if "your" defense can keep a team out of the end zone, then "you" do get the ball. I don't understand the everyone should get the ball complaint. Last time I checked, the defense is half of your team.

Not in reaction to yesterday, but it's how I feel about it in general.

[T-ski]

Saints fans have every right to bitch. Brutal.



As far as OT rules, if "your" defense can keep a team out of the end zone, then "you" do get the ball. I don't understand the everyone should get the ball complaint. Last time I checked, the defense is half of your team.

Not in reaction to yesterday, but it's how I feel about it in general.

honest question, do you believe the NFL favors the offense or defense when it comes to rules?

[KevShmev]

I generally agree with TAC's sentiment, but given that the league has heavily changed the rules to benefit the offense in a big way, it's gotten to a situation where whichever team wins the coin flip has a huge advantage.  I think a simple solution is, each team gets a possession in OT, that way if the team that gets it first gets a TD, the other team then has to score one to keep it going.  Then it becomes true sudden death.

[TAC]

Saints fans have every right to bitch. Brutal.



As far as OT rules, if "your" defense can keep a team out of the end zone, then "you" do get the ball. I don't understand the everyone should get the ball complaint. Last time I checked, the defense is half of your team.

Not in reaction to yesterday, but it's how I feel about it in general.

I generally agree with TAC's sentiment, but given that the league has heavily changed the rules to benefit the offense in a big way, it's gotten to a situation where whichever team wins the coin flip has a huge advantage.  I think a simple solution is, each team gets a possession in OT, that way if the team that gets it first gets a TD, the other team then has to score one to keep it going.  Then it becomes true sudden death.

I don't feel strongly either way, tbh, but I think by making the argument, we are letting the Defense off the hook.



I mean, what percentage of OT games are won by a TD on the first possession? I don't know.

honest question, do you believe the NFL favors the offense or defense when it comes to rules?

Certainly a valid point. But we're talking about keeping a team out of the end zone. Just hold them to a field goal.

[El Barto]

I generally agree with TAC's sentiment, but given that the league has heavily changed the rules to benefit the offense in a big way, it's gotten to a situation where whichever team wins the coin flip has a huge advantage.  I think a simple solution is, each team gets a possession in OT, that way if the team that gets it first gets a TD, the other team then has to score one to keep it going.  Then it becomes true sudden death.

I think this is reasonable, but we're talking about this because of one game.* How often does a team actually take the opening drive in for a touchdown? Ten percent, maybe? Even with the rules the way they are it seems pretty uncommon to me. You see D win out more often than not, and you certainly see more fieldgoals. What I've seen is that most teams aren't all that aggressive in OT. They're happy to settle for a FG if that's what they can get. NE seems to always play TD or bust, and they have a QB that can pull it off more often than not. That's not a problem with the rules.


*And frankly, I think we're talking about it because of this game and this outcome. Would there be any clamoring for a rule change if KC had done the same thing? There wasn't any when Larry Fitzgerald scored on an opening OT possession, denying St. Rogers the opportunity to score. I'm honestly kind of surprised that this is really a thing.

[KevShmev]

I think this is reasonable, but we're talking about this because of one game.* How often does a team actually take the opening drive in for a touchdown? Ten percent, maybe? Even with the rules the way they are it seems pretty uncommon to me. You see D win out more often than not, and you certainly see more fieldgoals. What I've seen is that most teams aren't all that aggressive in OT. They're happy to settle for a FG if that's what they can get. NE seems to always play TD or bust, and they have a QB that can pull it off more often than not. That's not a problem with the rules.


*And frankly, I think we're talking about it because of this game and this outcome. Would there be any clamoring for a rule change if KC had done the same thing? There wasn't any when Larry Fitzgerald scored on an opening OT possession, denying St. Rogers the opportunity to score. I'm honestly kind of surprised that this is really a thing.

Hmmm, I seem to remember it being talked about then as well, as it was considered a bad look for the league.  Aaron Rodgers pulled off an incredible throw to send the game to OT...and then never got to touch the ball.  Then yesterday, the AFCCG goes to overtime and the (likely) NFL MVP doesn't even get to play.  I am not sure what the solution is, but a tweaking is in order, especially with the rules constantly changing to help the offense.

[T-ski]

I feel the OT rules come up every time one team never gets the ball.  Let’s face it, the coin flip is pure luck. Instead of having fate decide who gets the advantage, let’s give both teams a chance.

[TAC]

But you're letting the defense off the hook.

[El Barto]

I feel the OT rules come up every time one team never gets the ball.  Let’s face it, the coin flip is pure luck. Instead of having fate decide who gets the advantage, let’s give both teams a chance.

Didn't somebody in this very thread bitch that NE wins coin-tosses more often than other teams?   

[T-ski]

But you're letting the defense off the hook.

But only one teams defense......am I right?

[KevShmev]

I feel the OT rules come up every time one team never gets the ball.  Let’s face it, the coin flip is pure luck. Instead of having fate decide who gets the advantage, let’s give both teams a chance.

Careful. I got push back last night when I mentioned how lucky the Patriots sometimes are, which is obvious to almost everyone who doesn't live in the Northeast.

[TAC]

Last year, the ave team scored 23.3 PPG.
2017...21.7
2010...22.0
2000...20.7
1990...20.1
1980...20.5

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/

There's been very litttle movement as far as average points per game, even with the rule changes. Defences have gotten better over the years. The rule changes are made to off set that so points scored can keep up, no?



Whatever OT strategy the league adopts, I really don't care, but whining because "So and so didn't touch the ball" lets the defense off the hook and devalues the impact of "team".

[TAC]

Careful. I got push back last night when I mentioned how lucky the Patriots sometimes are, which is obvious to almost everyone who doesn't live in the Northeast.

The coin flip winner got to put their best unit on the field first. That is true.

[El Barto]

I see 16 OT games this year (including the playoffs). Only four were won with first possession touchdowns. Most are FGs. This just isn't a situation that comes up all that often.

Something else I noticed, those four were all decided by an elite player that the other team simply couldn't stop. Brees and Rogers both led long, methodic drives. Brady led a short methodic drive. Ezekiel Elliot ran it down the Eagle's throat for 8 minutes. TAC's right. Defense does have to be a factor in this.


edit: Between the 2012 rule change and the Patriots OT super bowl win there were 87 tie games, and the team to win the coin toss won 45 of them. There were 5 ties, and some of those wins would have been after the first possession. Like I said, pretty much a non-problem.

[T-ski]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

[lordxizor]

I prefer college overtime rules.

[TAC]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

The only thing the coin flip give you is the chance to land a knockout blow.


Didn't the Pats actually defer in OT in a regular season game a couple of years ago? I think they lost.

[El Barto]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

Belichick has. Kev can tell you all about it.   

[El Barto]

Didn't the Pats actually defer in OT in a regular season game a couple of years ago? I think they lost.

Twice. The one they lost might or might not have been intentional. Nobody's really sure WTF it was all about, but the two theories are that Bill threw the game to get a better playoff matchup (unlikely) or that he simply fucked up (slightly more likely). My theory was that Slater screwed up and said kick by mistake and Bill took the heat off of him by taking the blame.

[Rattlehead]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

Belichick has. Kev can tell you all about it.   

Good point... but that decision didn't lead to the Patriots winning that game, a boneheaded move by Tony Carter on a punt in OT did 

[El Barto]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

Belichick has. Kev can tell you all about it.   

Good point... but that decision didn't lead to the Patriots winning that game, a boneheaded move by Tony Carter on a punt in OT did 

Fair enough, but keeping you guys playing against the wind was a key part of that entire game; including OT. He rightly decided that the weather was more important than the first possession.

[King Postwhore]

And El Barto hit the nail on the head.

[KevShmev]

I see 16 OT games this year (including the playoffs). Only four were won with first possession touchdowns. Most are FGs. This just isn't a situation that comes up all that often.

Something else I noticed, those four were all decided by an elite player that the other team simply couldn't stop. Brees and Rogers both led long, methodic drives. Brady led a short methodic drive. Ezekiel Elliot ran it down the Eagle's throat for 8 minutes. TAC's right. Defense does have to be a factor in this.


edit: Between the 2012 rule change and the Patriots OT super bowl win there were 87 tie games, and the team to win the coin toss won 45 of them. There were 5 ties, and some of those wins would have been after the first possession. Like I said, pretty much a non-problem.

Good research and numbers.

Like I said earlier, I am generally in favor of TAC's "play defense if you don't want to lose on the first possession of OT" stance.  However, I would not be opposed to a tweaking that guarantees each team a possession. 

And the argument could be made that "Hey, if you are mad you didn't get a possession in OT, you had 60 minutes to win the game and failed, so too freaking bad." 

Trust me, even though I am tired of the Patriots, seeing the Chiefs lose at home in the playoffs again did bring a smile to my face.

[Rattlehead]

If the current rules are okay, how come no team EVER has put their defense on the field first in OT after winning the toss?

Belichick has. Kev can tell you all about it.   

Good point... but that decision didn't lead to the Patriots winning that game, a boneheaded move by Tony Carter on a punt in OT did 

Fair enough, but keeping you guys playing against the wind was a key part of that entire game; including OT. He rightly decided that the weather was more important than the first possession.

Oh I totally agree with you on that being the right call by Belichick, it just reminded me of that idiotic move by Carter at the end of the game. Peyton was struggling in those windy conditions all day. Brady looked like the wind didn't affect him at all that night after an ugly start with several fluky turnovers. One thing I really admire about Brady is that he's so damn consistent regardless of the weather. Peyton seemed to be affected by that kind of thing more throughout his career... maybe it was because he was so used to playing in a dome for so long. 

[TAC]

I thought this was funny.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/tony-romo-just-predicted-where-bryce-harper-will-play-next-season/ar-BBSzbnG?li=BBnb7Kx

[KevShmev]

Best Tweet of the night was:

@RyanBrownWJOX

"If @tonyromo ever tells you tomorrow is your last day on Earth, you best get your affairs in order."

 

[TAC]

He's doing the Super Bowl, right? I'm looking forward to that.

[El Barto]

Best Tweet of the night was:

@RyanBrownWJOX

"If @tonyromo ever tells you tomorrow is your last day on Earth, you best get your affairs in order."

 

Dude really does know his shit. Not only does he know what's coming next, he remembers everything that happened. I'm just as impressed with his ability to point out patterns as they develop. Gruden was the same way.

I just wish he'd learn that not every second of the game requires analysis. Sometimes the sound of the game is more entertaining than his nonstop exposition.

[PowerSlave]

Best Tweet of the night was:

@RyanBrownWJOX

"If @tonyromo ever tells you tomorrow is your last day on Earth, you best get your affairs in order."

 

Dude really does know his shit. Not only does he know what's coming next, he remembers everything that happened. I'm just as impressed with his ability to point out patterns as they develop. Gruden was the same way.

I just wish he'd learn that not every second of the game requires analysis. Sometimes the sound of the game is more entertaining than his nonstop exposition.

He's not used to being in a stadium this late in the season. He might simply be over-excited...

[dparrott]

Saints fans have every right to bitch. Brutal.

... if "your" defense can keep a team out of the end zone, ...

Speaking of that, the Saints were outscored 17-7 in quarters 2 and 3.  This "no call" wouldn't have mattered if the Saints offense stayed consistent throughout the game.  Is that the refs fault too???

[black_biff_stadler]

I love how people act like shitty officiating is excusable if you play a less than great game.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Best Tweet of the night was:

@RyanBrownWJOX

"If @tonyromo ever tells you tomorrow is your last day on Earth, you best get your affairs in order."

 

Dude really does know his shit. Not only does he know what's coming next, he remembers everything that happened. I'm just as impressed with his ability to point out patterns as they develop. Gruden was the same way.

I just wish he'd learn that not every second of the game requires analysis. Sometimes the sound of the game is more entertaining than his nonstop exposition.

He's not used to being in a stadium this late in the season. He might simply be over-excited...

That was rude but hilarious.